A good reason NOT to wear a life jacket in a C Dory

T

thataway

Active member
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http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/in...izing-dur.html

Is a link to the capsizing of a Defiant 29 off La Jolla CA. Basically they had picked up some Spectra line in the port prop, and as they came in after aborting a fishing tournament, the boat was broached, because they didn't have the power to keep the boat straight and out run a breaking sea. The skipper had on a self inflating life jacket--and the other 5 had the life jackets in their hands. They made it out of the enclosed cabin, without too much difficulty. The skipper's self inflating jacket pinned him against the cabin and he could not swim down against the floatation to exit the boat. Fortunately he had a good knife in his pocket and punctured the life jacket bladders and and was then able to exit.

It seem paradoxical to adivse against a life jacket, but in an enclosed cabin boat, it can be very diffult to exit with that floatation on. It is a better plan to have the jacket at hand, and then exit the boat--putting it on as you are clear. This time it turned out OK, and all were saved, but there have been several other instances where people were trapped.

The other comment was boots. If you have ever gone over with boots on, then you realize that you have to get those boots off. Again, a sharp kinfe can cut the boots loose, if they are too tight.

An interesting read, and something to think about, in your survival plans. Of course our C Dories would not have rolled--or would have they?
 
Definately food for thought. That is a situation I'd never considered.
As far as a C-Dory rolling? Sure, the last time I checked they weren't magic.
 
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/washi ... ney-2.html

Don't know if this link will make finding it easier or not, but if not, ti is worth the search, (go down the thread to page 2, and look for the long thread.

Good read, and very lucky for all.

Question, Would a turned over 22 Cruiser be that hard to get out of with an inflated vest? Never thought of that, but seems like the floor is flat and the door is only inches from the floor level, either side up? Good idea to always have a knife VERY handy. Also, might be something to say for a manually inflated vest. Just my thoughts.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Every choice is a trade-off. What are the chances of getting trapped in the cabin with your PFD on versus hurrying out the door to deal with a problem and not remembering to take the time to don your PFD? I don't know, but I think way more people buy the farm falling out of the boat without a PFD, than die trapped inside because they were wearing one.

Having a knife handy is always an excellent idea, whatever your decision about wearing the PFD.

One additional thing to put in the mix - the convenience, comfort and safety of the inflatables is offset by the fact that they have to be worn to count as an approved PFD on board. So at a minimum, if you have an inflatable, but decide not to wear it in the cabin, make sure you have something else (even an approved cushion will do, I believe) that counts as an approved PFD handy.
 
Absolutely right about those seat belts. If you are in your car underwater, or a burning car that "lifesaving" seat belt can be your death sentence. Keep a knife handy to cut your way out. But then again, hundreds of lives are saved every year by seatbelts...whats a guy to do??

Sound familiar??
 
all my life jackets have knives on or in them. all one handed opening knives. I have carried a knife on my person everyday since I turned 9. Can not imagine not having one.

as for the life jacket or even seat belts, damed if you do damed if you dont.
 
Hi Brats,
All good thoughts, but it is very difficult to don a PFD while you are in the water, even if the water is calm (but then, why would you be in calm water with a PFD in your hands?) If you are warmly dressed, with signiificant boots on, your troubles just got much worse. Add in loss of breath control during first minutes in cold water -- I put on a manually operated inflatable PFD as soon as I get on the boat. Often, I'm nearly alone in the marina and I've slipped on frosty docks :shock: many times (although not yet this year--YEA!) :lol:
Rod
 
To me this sounds a lot like the seat belt argument e.g. there are times when wearing a seat belt is worse than not wearing one. However, I would argue that it's not in fact "damned if you do and damned if you don't" but rather better off most of the time if you do, rarely damned if you do, mostly damned if you don't and rarely better if you don't. Statistically, you're better off with the life jackets (and seat belts) on.
 
Interesting point for sure. It crossed my mind when I encountered the rough seas (and had the sharp heel) this past season on Napoleon.

I think we are more likely to trip or slip and fall into cold water or hit our heads on the way in than we are to capsize. For this reason I think we are more likely to be saved by wearing our pfd's.

Maybe there would be a better procedure if we anticipate rough seas...perhaps tie a few life preservers to exterior cleats or something.

Good topic for discussion and brainstorming.
 
Hi Matt,
The points you make are not lost on sailors! Many sailors will choose an inflatable PFD that activates immediately upon submersion. That can be a very important feature for someone hit and flipped overboard by the boom during an accidental jibe. Even a small boom can have enough power to break bones, knock a person unconscious, etc. Modern vests are improving in their reliability, and much less likely to inflate from insignificant wetting than previously.
Rod
 
rjmcnabb":3ckk4cvk said:
Hi Matt,
The points you make are not lost on sailors! Many sailors will choose an inflatable PFD that activates immediately upon submersion. That can be a very important feature for someone hit and flipped overboard by the boom during an accidental jibe. Even a small boom can have enough power to break bones, knock a person unconscious, etc. Modern vests are improving in their reliability, and much less likely to inflate from insignificant wetting than previously.
Rod
Click to expand...

I actually just researched PFD's and narrowed my selection to one that will inflate based on a change in pressure rather than the dissolving tablet (susceptible to rain, high humidity, etc.). I think a vest mounted knife (like those I wear diving) would be a nice addition.
 
I made the stupid, but not uncommon, mistake of launching without the drain plug last summer. First time in probably 40 years. My self inflating lifevest was laying on the floor of the boat. It slipped off the bunk while launching. It inflated immediately. I went to a marine store later that day to replace the cartridge and forgot to take the model number of the vest with me so now it is converted to manually inflating using the lanyard to trigger the cartridge. I lose just a little safety that way. But I would prefer to exit a boat without an inflated life vest. I was in a drift boat in my younger days that hit an overhanging fir snag in the river. When the bow of the boat disintegrated on impact and rolled I was trapped under water because the back piece of the pfd was caught on the gunnel of the boat. Being able to put your hand up into the air but not being able to reach it is maddening.
 
Hi Folks,

Just a little food-for-thought.

Answer to one question. If the 22' C-Dory gets sunk, it rides stern down because the flotation is in the bow under the forward berths. In order to get out, you need a long swim down. With an inflatable inflated, it might be impossible.

Was the inflatable an automatic-inflatable? I have one that I have to pull on a lanyard to inflate. The automatic inflatables can go off in the most interesting conditions, like on the forward deck working the anchor i rough conditions.

I will still wear my inflatable with the knife attached and hope that if I get sunk, I remember to get out of the boat before I pull the lanyard.

I have had my inflatable for about five years. Before the next boating season I am going to pull the lanyard to see that it works. Interesting.

Fred
 
ffheap":jnhucevl said:
Hi Folks,

Answer to one question. If the 22' C-Dory gets sunk, it rides stern down because the flotation is in the bow under the forward berths. In order to get out, you need a long swim down. With an inflatable inflated, it might be impossible.

Fred
Click to expand...

I'd try to get out one of the side windows, or, better yet, the front hatch, in that case. Still could be difficult, depending on the immersion degree of the boat.

Joe.
 
Opending a sliding widow is much easier under pressure than the door. The foreward hatch is like the door, but perhaps worse.

Since we spent our lives mostly as offshore sailors, we wore a custom tight fitting vest, and safety harness. A standard life jacket is way too bulky and actually dangerous. Rule was at night or heavy weather we had to have on life vests and harness cliped on when on deck. In the cabin, no life jackets on. There have also been some sailors trapped below decks when the boat rolled or capsized.

Our current policy is that we keep two inflatable harness units right by the door. We also have our dinghy warm weather belt inflatables right by the door. When in the dinghy we use the belt type of inflatables during hot weather. Cold we wear the custom fitting life vests in the dinghy. Generally we do not wear a life jacket when in a pilot house or below decks in any boat.

There is a sheath knife right at the door (along with the flash light), as well as a high quality one hand opener cliped in the pocket or on the vest. The typical sailor's knife has a "sheeps" foot, blade, and a fid or shackle opener at the other end, which locks open.
 
rogerbum":26cgjkz1 said:
To me this sounds a lot like the seat belt argument e.g. there are times when wearing a seat belt is worse than not wearing one. However, I would argue that it's not in fact "damned if you do and damned if you don't" but rather better off most of the time if you do, rarely damned if you do, mostly damned if you don't and rarely better if you don't. Statistically, you're better off with the life jackets (and seat belts) on.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a really bad Thanksgiving week-end in my early days in Law Enforcement as a crime scene investigator. 12 teenage boys killed in two separate auto accidents. The first night a car load of 6 failed to make a curve at a high rate of speed. The car rolled several times an all six where ejected an killed by the car rolling over on them. None had seat belts that may have saved them. The very next night 6 were in a convertible. All were wearing seat belts. Again a curve at high speed and the car rolled and slid about 200 feet upside down. If not for the seat belts they may have had a chance to have been thrown clear. I think it comes down to when it's your time it's your time.
 
Having spent the past 32 years (and I'm still doing it) responding to motor vehicle collisions, I am a firm proponent of lap and shoulder restraints as well as air bags. People are now surviving collisions that 32 years ago they would not have. Additionally, the injuries that are incurred today are far less than previously. Perhaps the most poignant example to what did occur years ago and you don't see today is the mother sitting unrestrained in a front passenger seat with an infant child held in her lap and being involved in a head on collision. (That visual should be enough to change anyone's negative opinion about the safety mandates that are currently in effect!).

As for PFD's, I've still not graduated to the inflatable PFD's as I don't find wearing a standard PFD uncomfortable or a hinderance to me. (As you can probably guess, my PFD is equipped with a knife, whistle, strobe light, rescue streamer, and mirror).

We can always "IF" things but once in a while I just repeat the saying..."If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hops"..... :shock:
 
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