A Binoculars Buying Guide: What Do You Need and What Should

This topic was posted within minutes of my purchase of Bushnell 10x42
Legend Ultra HD binoculars to replace one of the two pairs of el crapo binocs we have aboard Carpy. We should replace both of them, so I'll see what these look like (pun intended), and check out the good advice I find here. Maybe get another pair. Thanks for all the comments.

Bcassal
Carpy
 
Yellowstone":2qc1cuhx said:
I currently use (2) models: a Leupold 6x30 Yosemite (porro)....
...I'm completely satisfied with the Leupold ..... binoculars.

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I think* I'm in the market for a "reasonable" pair of binocs for the boat (although the stabi pair do look sweet!). It's easy to get a bit lost in the options and reviews, and I'd somewhat thrown up my hands (temporarily -- you know how that type of research/shopping burnout goes), but your endorsement (plus the Brat who bought a pair based on it) piqued my interest in these and I looked them up. Hmmmm...

I have two questions, if you or any other "binocular people" here would care to respond.

1) I see the Yosemite series includes both 6x30 and 8x30, and they are the same (dimensional) size and weight. Could you comment on the idea of getting the 8x30's instead of the 6x30's? Would they be too "shaky" on a boat? Is it a less-good "balance" to go up to the 8x yet not have any more light-gathering ability (i.e. they stay at x30). I don't want to fall prey to the "more is better" of the 8x if they really wouldn't be better for boating use.

2) *Currently I have a pair of Nikon Naturalist II' 7x35 8.6º that I received for a gift many years ago. Because I didn't shop actively for them, I never really knew a lot about them. I don't know why, but they have never "wowed" me; however, now that I look them up they look like they are probably half decent (in the "everyday" category). So... would I even notice anything better about a pair of the Yosemites? Or would they be redundant? Is it too subjective to say? I'm wondering whether they're similar enough that I should just wait until I'm ready to buy something different in size or function, because the Naturalist II's are already decent in the "everyday" category in this size range. Or not...

Thanks for any input,
Sunbeam :hot
 
Go into a good shop and try a bunch of different makes, models and sizes. You'll find that some will fit your needs better than others. I like 7x42s, Diana likes 10x50s. Both are Swarovski SLCs. I can't hold Diana's binocs steady. She loves them.
 
Wandering Sagebrush":1fbarz5l said:
Go into a good shop and try a bunch of different makes, models and sizes.... I like 7x42s, Diana likes 10x50s....I can't hold Diana's binocs steady.

Were you able to tell that about Diana's binoculars in the store? I'm wondering how well the in-shop shopping would prepare me for use aboard. I mean, not that I shouldn't go check them out - that's a good idea - but I'm just wondering how it will translate to real-world on the boat.

Sunbeam
 
Sunbeam":3402vs6g said:
Wandering Sagebrush":3402vs6g said:
Go into a good shop and try a bunch of different makes, models and sizes.... I like 7x42s, Diana likes 10x50s....I can't hold Diana's binocs steady.

Were you able to tell that about Diana's binoculars in the store? I'm wondering how well the in-shop shopping would prepare me for use aboard. I mean, not that I shouldn't go check them out - that's a good idea - but I'm just wondering how it will translate to real-world on the boat.

Sunbeam

Good shops will let you take them outside and walk around to try them. Diana's binocs are heavy, and at ten power, they are hard to steady. She likes them because of the very clear image and magnification. While I occasionally use hers, I try to steady them against something. We have a tripod mount for them too (rarely used). I also think the field of view is too narrow.

Remember, I am coming at this from a birding perspective.
 
A few observations:
Stores: I purchased my Fujinon 14 x 40 Techno Stabi from a large optics store where I could take all of their stabilized binoculsars out of doors, and had a long range to look at both moving and non moving objects—I could see how they felt, how good the stabalization was, edge to edge sharpness, chromic aberrations etc.
I choose the Fujinon glasses—but most of my good camera lenses are stabilized Canon. I went in thinking I was going to buy Canon. Go try all of the binoculars which are available—but don’t go to K Mart or Wal-Mart—go to a good sporting goods or optics store.
Same as I buy my camera lenses—I go to the local store, take my camera body, and try on the lens I want to buy out of doors, look at the photos on a computer, and see if that is really what I want.
Environment: I have two classes which have traveled over 100,000 miles at sea—high temp, high humidity, cold, salt spray etc. They are going to have a much harder life than glasses which stay in a nearly constant environment—humidity low, tmeps stable etc. Looking at 6 glasses I have in the room now—two are like new-they are the ones with 100,000 miles. They are NITROGEN filled, the coatings are still perfect, no scratches, bodies are free of corrosion. Why? They were taken care of, and of good quality.

I have several others which have fungus on the internal optics, have loose fitting center focus, leak air when you focus them (and draw in fungal spores and dust),
The bodies have corrosion, and the focus mechanism is loose—if you put pressure on one eye piece over the other, it may put the glass out of focus.

Lens cleaning: Air—bulb—not canned or compressor. Camel hair brush (don’t touch the bristles with your fingers, since it leaves oil on them. You can use special lens tissues, or a Lens pen—but when using cleaning fluid—put it on the special tissue or micro fiber, not on the lens!

Exit pupil: Both the objective (the optic toward the way you are looking) and the exit pupil (aperture where the light comes to your eye). Although the amount our pupil will generally not dilate as you age—There are plenty of 70 year olds who still have a maximal pupil diameter (iris of the eye diameter) which can be 7 mm when in the dark . I can definitely notice the difference between 7 x 30 and 7 x 50 glass when looking at low lights.

Fujinon high end stabilized binocs: There are two—the Techno Stabi 14 x 40 somewhere in the $ 1200 range. Then there is the $5,600 Fujinon Stabiscope Gyro stabilized 16 x 40.!
I have not found that battery usage in the Fujinon batteries is an issue. They last a long time. I take them out when the binocs are not being used.. The binocs live in a water proof Pelican Case—the Batteries will last several years of use—depending on how you use the binoculars.
 
Sunbeam - I recommend the 6x30 Leupold, not the 8x30. Why? Lower power is more easily managed on a rocking boat. Six power gives adequate definition over water where mirage is always present. A 6x30 has a 5 mm exit pupil as opposed to the 8x30 with 3.75 mm exit pupil making eye placement less critical.

Around twenty years ago, Zeiss came out with a special marine roof binocular, a 6x42 IF model in addition to their 7x50 IF porro marine model. In doing so Zeiss was catering to a large exit pupil - 7 mm. I had both, but the optics of the 6x42 didn't surpass a good Japanese porro in six power purchased on Ebay for $30. The Zeiss model bombed, but Zeiss was paying homage to the fact that boats are not stable platforms, and low power and large exit pupils are indeed useful on the water.

John
 
That's interesting.

I know this is subjective, but do you think I'd be likely to notice (much of a) difference in the Leupold 6 x30's vs. the Nikon Naturalist II 7x35's I have now? (On the boat I mean.)

Thanks again - appreciate your thoughts.

Sunbeam
 
Bob-

You might be interested in reading Ken Rockwell's evaluation of the Fujinon 14x40 Techno-Stabi binoculars.

He thinks they're actually superior to the military version Fujinon Stabi-Scope binoculars, from which they were derived.

Both have gyroscope stabilization, and are generally similar, with the Techno -Stabi's being a more modern development, considerably more user friendly, and available at about 1/4th the cost.

He also compares the stabilization mechanisms between the Canon and Fujinon systems, and discusses differences in definition that come about as a result of that difference.

Finally, he also discusses the rest of the Cannon and Nikon IS stabilized binocular lines as well.

Interesting reading! Enjoy!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Here is one little prob that has not been mentioned yet. I set up the focus on my bins for left eye and then right eye, now they are perfect. Along comes the admiral, changes the setting, and uses the bins (I may not notice this). Now on approach I am looking for a buoy, the bins are out of focus and I have to take both hands off the wheel and reset them. I guess the answer is, "his & her" bins!

I bet you come up with a few other answers

:)


Martin.
 
bridma":1ys0mslg said:
Here is one little prob that has not been mentioned yet. I set up the focus on my bins for left eye and then right eye, now they are perfect. Along comes the admiral, changes the setting, and uses the bins (I may not notice this). Now on approach I am looking for a buoy, the bins are out of focus and I have to take both hands off the wheel and reset them. I guess the answer is, "his & her" bins!

I bet you come up with a few other answers

:)


Martin.

Martin- Here's at least a partial solution:

Mark your and her individual focus settings on the eyepiece's + and - diopter focus scales. (3+….2+…..1+…..0…..-1…..-2….-3)

Use a different color for each person. If the binoculars are black, use little lines made of pieces of colored vinyl tape, like blue for her and red for you.

That way, you can just turn the eyepieces back to the correct settings for each person quickly without looking through the binoculars.

I do this just for myself, as they're always out of adjustment when handed back by another person.

Maybe someday someone will put a computer chip and electro-servo focus system in a pair of binoculars that will have memory positions for several different users.

Hope this helps!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sunbeam - the Nikon 7x35 you have is a good binocular for its price range, but I don't believe it is rated as waterproof, which may not be important to you. If you are satisfied with it, use it. Is it rubber covered?

Binoculars get banged around and dropped in boats in my experience. By the way I have had binoculars rated as waterproof fog up (internally) under demanding circumstances - rain and wet snow with wide temperature changes. Leupold, Opticron, and Minox marketed a CF porro (from same factory) which is advertised having internal adjustments and being waterproof. But these were only in 8 and 10 power.

But unlike watches, a truly waterproof binocular is difficult to engineer and stay that way.

John
 
Good idea Joe. I had thought of marking the settings for "his & hers" before. Never got around to it. Now you have given me the push I need.

Martin.
 
Yellowstone":3f2w983c said:
Sunbeam - the Nikon 7x35 you have is a good binocular for its price range, but I don't believe it is rated as waterproof, which may not be important to you. If you are satisfied with it, use it. Is it rubber covered?

They're (it's?) not rubber covered, nor waterproof - they just look like the iconic black binoculars.

I've never really been "wowed" by them (they are the only binoculars I've owned), and I'm not sure if that's just how something in the 7x35 range is, or if something different-yet-similar (like say the Leupold 6x30's) would please me more. Perhaps I'd need to go to something completely different/more-expensive/etc. to notice much difference? That's what I was wondering.

Sunbeam
 
Sunbeam - Most binoculars sold today are well made. The level of competition between different brands is pretty fierce. The brands with reputations for excellence charge accordingly. The European stuff is generally high end. The Japanese and Chinese make high end, middle, and low end binoculars. Your Nikon is dated, particularly the coatings and construction. That particular binocular on Ebay will sell for $30 used.

If you are status conscious, nothing will be good enough but the best. But the law of diminishing retuirns enters into the picture. For every special feature incorporated into the design of an alpha, the price rises almost beyond reason.

The Leupold 6x30 Yosemiti is made in China using plenty of plastic but the prisms and lens are quality glass as are the coatings. No one can expect a binocular selling under $100 to be as durable as one costing $2,000.

But the ability to resolve detail and colors even in inexpensive binoculars is far beyond the capability of the human eye. The Leupold in question will yield a very good level of detail and has a wide field, too.

Pride of ownership is important to some people. They wouldn't be caught dead with an el cheapo in their hands, even it it served them well. I have a friend who drives a Jag, even though millions drive Fords with relative comfort and safety.

Go to your local eye doctor for an exam. You will be charged plenty. Eye glasses are relatively simple things, far less complex than binoculars to make. Binocuars are really a remarkable vaule for what you get.

John
 
I appreciate your further thoughts. I'm not status-conscious in the least, and don't care what others think of my brand choices - as long as I'm happy with them. I do appreciate good quality, however, that said, sometimes an inexpensive or "lesser" item will do the job required of it, and if that's the case, then to me that makes it a good option.

If I decide to get new binoculars in this size/type range, then the Leupolds sound good to me - the fact that they are at least more waterproof than my current Nikons (even if not truly waterproof), and the more evolved coatings sound like good things.

Thanks again for extrapolating,
Sunbeam :hot
 
Martin-
Absolutely right--his and hers. My wife used to have exceptionally sharp vision--she would often be able to make out numbers where I would have difficulty getting good definition. Now she has her own binoculars.

Joe, great article--thank you! I don't know much about Ken Rockwell, but there seem to be some claims which are difficult to believe.

As far as mechanism:"My Techno-Stabis use electronic stabilization. They use silicon accelerometers and DSP to control the prism motions electronically. The Stabiscopes use traditional spinning iron-ring gyros bolted to the prisms, no electronics needed other than to spin the gyros." I don't think that the cheaper ones are gyro stabilized. Also Rockwell admits he has never used the $5500 binoculars...

The major complaint I have about the Fujinon Techno Stabi is the relative difficulty of adjusting the intra ocular distance.
 
thataway":1uxjh6vt said:
Martin-
Absolutely right--his and hers. My wife used to have exceptionally sharp vision--she would often be able to make out numbers where I would have difficulty getting good definition. Now she has her own binoculars. (*)

Joe, great article--thank you! I don't know much about Ken Rockwell, but there seem to be some claims which are difficult to believe. (**)

As far as mechanism:"My Techno-Stabis use electronic stabilization. They use silicon accelerometers and DSP to control the prism motions electronically. The Stabiscopes use traditional spinning iron-ring gyros bolted to the prisms, no electronics needed other than to spin the gyros." I don't think that the cheaper ones are gyro stabilized. Also Rockwell admits he has never used the $5500 binoculars… (***)

The major complaint I have about the Fujinon Techno Stabi is the relative difficulty of adjusting the intra ocular distance.(****)


Bob-

* Good solution, eliminates all exchange adjustments and binocular type preferences.

** I understand he's a bit of a loose cannon using overstatement and shows some favorite brand preference, which leaves some others offended. He also uses his evaluations to generate income through internet referrals, so is not seen as objective.

*** I've read that article several times and never noticed that particular paragraph (!) I wonder if it's part of a recent revision? I specifically read looking for the fun technical details like that!

**** True, I think the intra ocular adjustment/accomodation was the last item on the design priority list. Mine are pretty stiff to adjust, too. Better than a leaky pair, though! :lol:

Take Care,

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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