3 way switch off, motor running

N

nordicstallion

New member
Recently my voltage guage started reading 15 volts constantly. Not long ago I mistakenly turned 3 way switch to off position with motor running for a few a minutes.Do you think I damaged something in the charging system? With batteries fully charged at home, the voltage meter stays at 15. Electricity & I dont speak the same language.Im concerned.What should my next move be? Vern/C-Dog
 
nordicstallion-

You need to take your motor to a Suzuki dealer and have it checked out.

Modern "Off-1-both-2" battery switches have "make before break" switch contacts to avoid unloading the charging system when the motor is running and the alternator working under load.

A sudden disconnect in the loading can cause damage to the diodes and/or voltage regulator, if the latter is present. (Most all large charging systems have voltage regulators, but some older, simpler ones do not, simply charging at a low rate continually.)

If you are used to seeing various different voltages and apparent charging rates, but are not so now, something has changed, and the best solution is to have a professional familiar with your system/motor evaluate its present status.

Good Luck, and let us know what you find out!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thank you Joe.Ihave a 04 df70. I see the rectifier/regulator in my motor manual. Diode? I think I had a diode once but the doctor lanced it & I feel better now!! Would they be found in the charging coil? Vern
 
nordicstallion":3ekpu37j said:
Thank you Joe.Ihave a 04 df70. I see the rectifier/regulator in my motor manual. Diode? I think I had a diode once but the doctor lanced it & I feel better now!! Would they be found in the charging coil? Vern
Click to expand...

Vern-

The diodes are solid state devices (like a transistor) that allow electric current to pass in only one direction, and thus are also called rectifiers when connected to an alternating current (AC) output, such as from your alternator.

At least two would be needed for your alternator, one each to take each half of the AC +/- sine wave output and convert it to DC for the battery charging.

For simplicity, the diodes and any transistors and other components used as switches in regulating the AC output might well be placed in one modular unit for convenience in manufacture and replacement.

Good Luck with your problem!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Joe,Thank you again. I think im on track now.That doesnt sound the least bit like that thing the doctor sliced off my butt. A diode is like a one valve that I seem to have insulted with my dumb thumb momentary stupidity.Im a lucky boy having you kids out there.Where would I be without you? Vern
 
Been there done that ! Nothing $250 bucks can't fix. Most likely fried your regulator / rectifier. Good news is they have lots of them and your local boat repair shop.
 
I have a regulator on order at 166 bucks.Now for the scarey part. To get to the reg. I have to remove the electrical parts holder whitch includes removeing the ecm the disconnecting a long list of wires to various switches,relays and yet to be identified electrical stuff. Im going to think about this and get a plan down pat before I do anything. Social security doesnt allow for outboard mechanics. Were kind of isolated here on the north coast & ive found that suzuki seems to be a foreign language. Vern/C-Dog
 
Motors have a spirit that will connect with your attitude about working on it. If it senses that you are afraid of it, it will bite you. If you show it who's boss, it'll serve, but will sulk once in a while. SO, show the motor that you love it, will do it no harm, will study the manuals, will handle it tenderly, and it will accept your attempts at repair with the same stoicism that my 91 year old father showed as he had to accept the 25 year old blond nurse who had changed his diaper in the nursing home. He loved her for the effort after she left the room. So your Suzuki will also love you for your kind efforts. The new outboards are really incredibly simple things. Much more so than those of 30 years ago.

I always take multiple pictures from all angles whenever I'm doing something on my various outboards, before, during, and after the work. If you get the screws back in and wires where they go, the thing will run when putting in a new part. I'm not all the sure your motor regulator is fried though. What did it look like voltage wise when you ran the motor on the battery?
 
Vern-

A few ideas:

Get someone on here on C-Brats with a Suzuki repair manual for your boat to copy the pages on the regulator replacement, and either email or snail mail them to you. There may be specific procedures that need to be followed for a variety of reasons. (Order of dis & re-connect, polarization, do's and don't, etc.)

Use a digital camera to photograph the connections before you dis-assemble. Print and use as a reference / check-list upon re-assembly.

You might also number the terminals in a logical way, then put masking tape on the wires with the terminal numbers on the tape, so as to get them back in the same places.

I'm sure you'll be directed to disconnect the batteries when doing this, but there may be other procedures to follow as well, such as grounding/discharging any residual charges on components, etc.

The more things you do to simplify and goof-proof the procedure, the easier and less nerve-wracking it will be!

Good Luck!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thank you kids. I have a repair manual & am studying to identify parts & their locations. My new part wont come untill late this month so I wont be starting this untill next month after visiting children & grandchildren for xmas down in sac. valley. The digital camera is an excellent idea as the ole memory aint what it used to be. Oh, I just remembered,it never was that good in the first place. This has been a sweetheart of a motor, the problems ive had are due to the weak link,ME. P.Water, the awnser to your voltage question is 15.5 volts constantly on the guage on batt.#1,#2 and both. I have a pro sport on board charger for 3 batteries & never leave home without fully charged batts. Still 15.5 all the time. Surprised my batteries arent fried. Vern
 
First question--what are you using to measure battery voltage? There is no 12 volt battery which will read 15.5 volts when disconnected from a charging source. Most 12 volt batteries will be fired when constantly charged at 15.5 volts.

So...I suspect your volt meter? Invest in a good Fluke or similar digital volt meter. You can also purchase meters which measure amperage also. You want to know what the resting voltage of your batteries are:

It should be about 12.6 to 12.7 volts. The changing voltage will be somewhere between 13.7 and 14.5 volts. The current on that engine will probably be about 20 amps max (since some is used to run the electronics of the engine.

Do NOT rely on an analogue guage. Do not rely on the digital gauge in the depth sounder or GPS. Buy a good volt/ohm/amp meter and learn how to use it. This will save a lot of money down the line. (and perhaps get you home--or avoid a tow).
 
Just a little side note about analogue meters and steady readings....

I had a tech working for me who decided to clean the "glass" face of our bench meter. The "glass' was actually a high grade plastic. When he rubbed the windex(UGH) off the face there wasn't any apparent problem at first unless you looked real close at the meter's needle; but, when a voltage was applied the needle went abt 3/4 of full scale and stopped. It was stuck to the meter's face plate by static electricity.

So... Be careful how you rub your 'thingie'! :wink:

Art
 
The voltage meter, as I recall, was reading lower, exactly what, I dont know. What caught my attention was an obviously higher reading than usual & was constant no matter the batt. switch position on fully charged batts. There was a thread about a high volt meter reading here not long ago that got me stressing about my obviously higher readings on my volt meter guage since I had an electical engine failure in heavy fog in august & came in on the kicker. It was suggested that I needed to clean all my electrical connections. After doing that & getting the main running again, on my first trip out I noticed the higher voltage meter reading. Working on the connection points was when I had the brain flatulence & switched the switch to the off position for about a minute. Since then I noticed higher readings that never fluctuate. Always 15.5 on the meter. Many years ago I learned that after working on a motor, if you have a problem, go back to the last thing you did. I Turned the switch to off with the motor running!! That, as I remember reading somewhere is a no no. Deductive reasoning kicked in after that. Vern/C-Dog
 
Bob as usual is spot on. Voltmeters are an essential piece of test equipment for anything electrical. I lost count of how many volt meters I have. At least two are on the boat. One is wired to the electrical panel to measure the voltage there. I use it to monitor battery voltage to the house side and charging of the house batteries. It cost a lot less than a Xantrex monitor. If it's around 13.5 volts it is being charged. While anchored I can check the general condition of the house batteries (turn everything off first). If I have a question, I use my other volt meter and go to the source. That one can also measure current.
 
I think perhaps Im not explaining my problem well. Maybe due to my lack of electrical knowledge or nomenclature. Im not testing battery voltage of batteries at rest with a hand held voltage tester. My concern is with the voltage guage in the console while underway. I have assumed the guage was measureing the charge rate from the charge coil in the motor.A previous thread mentioned a high charge rate could be the result of the charging coil trying to charge a failing or defective battery.Since the reading never varies,is very high & constant regardless of switch position,the change from past norms plus my having dumb thumbed switch position with moton running makes me think the charge coil is chargeing full tilt & unregulated & overchargeing allready charged batteries while underway.Sometimes its tuff being the new guy. Vern/C-Dog
 
Vern,

My understanding is the charging voltage from the alternator to the batteries coming out of the voltage regulator should be reflected throughout the 12 VDC distribution on the boat with the switch on. It should read slightly differently at different points in the distribution (helm for example) depending on distance from the batteries and load on the batteries at the time it is measured. So with the switch on and motor running, measuring voltage at the battery is comparable to measuring the output voltage of the voltage regulator on the motor. If a voltage sensitive relay (VSR) is involved, you may want to wait about 30 seconds as it may not be shunting any charging current to the house battery side until it brings the start battery up to voltage.
 
Well Im starting to think Im in something thats way over my head. I guess I have three options. #1. change the regulator & see if that makes a difference.#2. leave it alone & see if its actually overcharging by waiting for a battery to fry then change the reg.#3. bite the bullet & tuck my tail between my legs & drag the boat to a mechanic. Thank you all for trying to get thru the bone barrier protecting my brain. I just dont get it.Me & electricity are like oil & water. Happy Holidays boys & girls,Im off to the sacramento valley to see my babies. That should put the smile back on the old Wild Nordic Stallions face & ease my troubled mind for a few days. Cheers,Vern
 
Vern-

Do whatever you feel most comfortable with, etc.

One factor you might want to consider is that electrical parts for cars and most other vehicles are non-returnable, at least if the packaging is opened, depending on the vendor. This might make a difference in your decision making, if considered.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Vern,

Let's take one more try. You can go to Wally World or Radio Shack and get a simple volt meter for about $10 to $12, analog or digital, either will work. You will be looking for the VDC, DC, or - marked on the meter for the setting and if it has various ranges like 20V or 200V pick the 20V range. If you see a ~ mark, AC, or VAC listed on the meter that is for ac or the voltage in your house. There are two leads on the meter, one is black and the other is red. Black would go the negative (-) terminal or ground on the battery and red would go to the positive (+) terminal on the battery. If you reverse them, on a analog meter the needle will hit the peg less than zero. On a digital meter, it will show - voltage such as -12.6 volts with the engine off. If you do it with the red lead to the positive terminal the needle should go up to 12.6 volts. With the motor running it could read up to 14.5 volts. If you see the 15.5 volts on the meter than a new voltage regulator on the motor may be needed.

For practice take simple AA battery and look for the voltage between the two ends. You should see 1.5 volts DC. I would take the Radio Shack route since they will show you how to use the meter. Once you have tried it, you see how simple troubleshooting DC voltage is with a volt meter. Next week we will take on trailer lights and volt meters.
 
nordicstallion":3k04od3c said:
Recently my voltage guage started reading 15 volts constantly. Not long ago I mistakenly turned 3 way switch to off position with motor running for a few a minutes.Do you think I damaged something in the charging system? With batteries fully charged at home, the voltage meter stays at 15. Electricity & I dont speak the same language.Im concerned.What should my next move be? Vern/C-Dog
Click to expand...

My response is based on your post that batteries fully charged at home, the voltage meter stays at 15. What doe they read when the engine is not running? Or when on the battery charger when plugged into the 110 volt mains power? Yes, the 15 plus volts suggests that you have damaged the diodes on the output (that is what is usually damaged when the engine is run without a battery load.)

Good luck on the repair.
 
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