27FT C-DORY PILOT HOUSE

brother byrdman,
i'm now in the home stretch for retirement. could be as soon as two years. need to line up something that will keep me busy and amused. what if we start a mini aluminum tug boat building/teaching company. so, we build a 10', or up to a 14' mini tug, 25hp to 50hp outboard, we supply the material, equipment, oversee the building process, the building where it all takes place, and then charge the appropriate fee. we teach other retired and/or students of any age how to build their own mini tug. i've seen these boats and they definitely are marketable. run the business as a teaching center for individual boat building.
seeking knowledge on this subject, any and all c-brats with an opinion are welcomed, if not strongly encouraged to share your thoughts.
pat
 
First production boats are of high finish, and the first stage is hiring a naval archetict to draw the plans and do the engineering. (Some companies have yacht designers on staff). Today most of the production fiberglass boats are buld are built in molds. The plug over which the mold is built is made by a 3 dimensional router in foam. This is then finished and used to make the molds--alone this stage of production for a 25 foot boat can run into the hundreds of thousands; for a complex 30 footer even a million dollars. There are lots of old molds around--some have to be redone, because there is a finate number of boats you can build out of a mold. Frankly molding a hull is grunt labor, and not of the best working conditions. Often minimal wage labor is used for this stage. The early boats had hand lay up of mat and roving, then the chopper gun gun came along. To some extent this left out some of the hand lay up, but the consistancy was not as good. Now many production boats are laid up using resin infusion. All of the glass is precut (often on lasser tables) and then laid into the mold, with a single shot of resin to build the entire molding. Then the interior, grid, and top are put in the boat--often many different moldings.

Building boats is on a large scale is a bit more than a few guys getting together. You need a factory space, climate control, compressed air in good volume, protection for the workers etc. When we were building boats it was a bit of a co-op. We worked in a place called "multihull city" where there were at least 30 boats in various stages were being built--some glass, some plywood over glass, and a few metal. It was helpful to have extra hands to help out with various projects and advice. But there were many "builders" who dedicated their entire lives to building one boat--sometimes many years and never did finish the boat.

As for one offs, there are a number of ways to build. One of the easiest is to use "Stitch and glue" Some builders make the hull model with heavy poster board work out the curves, and dimensions on the model. Then this is scalled up to the full sized pieces of plywood--often scarfing (12:1) joints of several pieces of plywood. A hull can be built very rapidly using this technique. The cabin top, deck etc call all be built pretty much the same way. Often strong backs are used to hold the hull in shape and bend the planks around until the epoxy sets up with the glassed tabs.

The Aero Cat Marine boats are built with an interesting technique--a glass laminating table is built so that the pannels which are one side of the boat are built in a flat pannel in one piece--this may be as big as 5' wide and 35 feet long. These are built with epoxy, the pannel is laid up, with a core (either Occume ply, foam or Nadi-core) and glass on both sides. The pannels are molded to size and contour (no waste cutting like plywood), and then put on a strongback with bulkheads, and glassed together with tape and epoxy. This is also a valid technique. I was visiting a friend today who is close to launching a 62 foot 26 foot wide Catamaran he has built with a similar construction technique over the last 6 years--working 10 hours a day 7 days a week--mostly by himself. But he is a professional boat builder...

Another excellent form of constuction of one offs, is strip planking--again one has to loft the hull, and set up stations of cheaper bulkhead--the permant bulkheads should be high quality wood. Then the strips of wood, some layers at different angles, are laid over this set of frames and strongback, to form a hull with complex curves. When strips of wood are epoxy saturated, and then glassed on both sides, a monique hull which is very strong is built. A similar construction technique is using balsa planks. I have sailed many thousands of offshore miles on boats built with 1.5" x 1.5" balsa planks which are fitted as above over frames, then glassed over with resin (better with epoxy)--on the outside, then the frames are pulled, as the boat is turned over, and the inside is glassed. With this a boat of this construction, we hit a semi submerged container at 8 knots in 10 foot seas, and the boat did not sink--and we sailed it another 300 miles before we were able to affect any repairs. Most conventional plywood or fiberglass molded boats would have sustained severe hull damage and sunk.

There are a number of stock plans for stitch and glue, and other techniques for hulls, from places like Glen L, Bruce Roberts, CMD, Boat Design.com etc. Building a boat has a fairly steep learning curve, and is a lot of work. The cost and labor of building the hull is relitatively small, but very time consuming. For that reason, I suggest that you either buy a hull (could be used and needs gutting and rebuilding vs recently molded, welded or buy the set of plans, and build with stitch and glue--especially in a semi dory hull form

Now as to the cost of boats. Even the biggest boat builders do not produce anything like the scale of automobiles. The more built and the more automated the less the cost. A Ranger Tug, is a very complex boat, with a lot of complicated systems. If you put outboards on it, it would be an entirely different boat---plus the hull is not designed for outboards, by weight distribution or hull form. The Ranger has a very high level of finish--and all of the spit, polish, vinly headliners, varnish etc costs $$.

Nothing more satisfying than building your own boat---but be sure that you are going to be fully committed and that your life partner is also ready to put up with that. Fortunately, my wife, Marie, is an excellent carpenter and boat builder--and enjoyed it as much as I did. But I do believe that she is a rare lady.
 
plans are available for a 10' to 14' aluminum outboard tug boat. kiss is the theme! the overall goal is to share the passion of boating, building, and learning. the 50+ age (male or female) group would be the target marketing group. they have the time, money and interest.
the company would only own one or two boats, all others would be member owned. total annual production depends upon number of registered members. class would not be 12 months a year more likely on a quarterly bases. bare in mind at this stage i'm doing the required mental gymnastics, although i would not be asking for opinions if i wasn't considering this option. it is the challenge that makes life interesting. my strenghts are business, carpentry, boating and most importantly strong desire to be productive. have looked at other business opportunities and nothing excites me more than this prospect. hey, dr. bob, thanks for your impute, this venture would be smaller scale, no more than 10 students at any one time, goal would be, if you're interested in joining the club put your name on the list and when an opening occurs we'll call you, or team up with someone and help each other during the building process.
pat

ps: if i had a commercial building, had no students, i could still build one at a time mini tugs, store my motorhome, c-dory and wood working shop, rent space for inside storage or sell it.
 
Pat. I think the most important point Bob made is that building a boat is TIME CONSUMING. Doesn't matter if it is a 10 or 14 foot tug. If you have not built a boat to custom specs, it is very easy to grossly underestimate the time involved. For most part time builders, I would expect a small project boat like you are talking about to take between 1 and 2 years, and maybe more.
I have friends who have built their own stich and glue versions of the C-Dory (one a 22 Cruiser equivalent and the other a 23 foot Venture type). These involved thousands of man hours (one took oer a year full time for a friend and his wife, the other over two years for a lone builder part time), but they have great fit and finish not typical of one-offs. I also know people that have spent a couple of decades building larger boats. One guy I know spent 14 years building a 65 foot steel-hulled sailboat, only to have it sink within a few months of its launch (due to an inadequately designed rudder - at least inadequate for large seas).
I recently built (almost compete) a 16 foot Sevtec-designed hovercraft from foam core (Divinycel) and epoxy. The hull is not terriblly complex, but I had at least 300 hours in the hull alone (something that perhaps I could now do in 100) - much of it was spent thinking through the later construction to determine how all the little things would fit together when I incorporated the custom modifications into the design. I can also tell you that just locating and buying all the little pieces and parts you need to build a boat is extremely time consuming.
Before you start a class, I would suggest you build one of these boats. If it doesn't turn you off, you will then know what you are getting into.
 
There are a number of "Boat building schools"--Port Townsend is one in WA. I don't see this as a viable commercial adventure. At my age, I have no interest in building another boat, although each time you build one, it becomes easier and faster....

As for pulling lines off an existing boat....fairly easy, especially with modern lassers, and measurements. Of course it is common to splash mold off an existing hull to produce in fiberglass. Copywrite issues exist, so one needs to be cautious about this.

Yes, indeed it takes a lot of time. I spent some time aboard the 57 foot Cat I refered to earlier today, and then later in the afternoon with a person who is helping out. Even though the builder is a professional boat builder and this is what he has done all of his life, this project seems overwhelming. The systems are so complex as a boat gets bigger that they alone can consume many years. In fact it is not uncommon to have a system be obsolute before the boat is launched...

You can knock out 15 foot semi dory skiffs very quickly with several of the techniques. Even with these, you still have to either glass or paint and glass the hulls, finish the interior and exterior, but you just have a 15 foot skiff when you are done...nothing more.
 
this cdory forum should form a coop buy cdory from seasport and start building boats you have knowledgable people across the country already.
then your warranty problems are solved you have the best cdory people already on board you already know more about them than the builders any way. you could improve any thing about them you dont like which doesn't seem to be much what do you think.!!!
 
Bob, a friend of mine attended a wooden boat building school on the West Coast (I think it may have been in San Francsico, but not sure). Their personal class project was a sea kayak, not a boat.
 
My son volunteers at Alexandria VA wooden boat building school. In addition to providing alternative education programs for kids with problems (Bernie Madoff screwed up a bunch of that Foundation funding) they build stitch and tape skiffs as family weekend projects.

Bill Uffelman
Las Vegas NV
 
this boat looks alot like the seasport alaskan pilot 2600 there is a used 27 in anacortis for sale single diesel for sale
 
i've been viewing a 15' aluminum mini tug, built by dearden marine, www.deardenmarine.com (while he choose an inboard, i would only consider an outboard) he purchased his plans from berkeley-engineering www.berkeley-engineering.com/index.html . the plans were for a wood built tug however dearden choose aluminum instead, which would be my choice as well. i've communicated with dearden via email he states it took slightly more than 600 hours to complete. i have exchanged emails with berkeley and am waiting for them to give me a list of what comes with the plans, in other words would i receive actual size drawings that could be traced onto sheets of aluminum, etc. i'm not sure why it would take 15 weeks @ 40 hours per week to complete something as small as this build. even so, certainly the second build should be substantially shorter in time. any job taken after retirement should come with zero stress, this should be a labor of love rather than need for income.
pat
 
Pat- Thought I'd show the mini-tug for everyone to see easily:

Minitug1.JPG

14 foot Mini Tugboat "Candu-EZ" design by Berkley Engineering

Designer Berkley Eastman, Berkley Engineering Co.
design- Candu E-Z
Length 14 feet 3 inches
Beam 7 feet 4 inches
Draft 1 foor 8 inches
Launched 1998
Displacement 1150 lbs

And one of The Berkley Engineering Tugs:
DadAndCarolSueCroppedExperiment.jpg

Wonder what this is?

pilothousemini.jpg

Certainly light years in time of construction from something like this:

victory_tug_steaming_small_best_1.sized.jpg
Lord Nelson Victory Tug (37')

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
My wife would call the tug cute -- I'd call it gutsy!

I can't recall if I wrote before about the America (Herreshoff) 18 fiberglass cat boat conversion that is moored at the Orleans MA yacht club. Builder acquired a hull and built his own tug cabin topsides from mahogany. As the hulls are almost indestructible it would be interesting if a beat up boat were available for reconstruction. Kind of a "From a Not So Bare Hull" project.

Bill Uffelman
Las Vegas NV
 
Those Hershoff's are not likely to be found as "salvage" There was one locally, and the consignment dealer would not sell, until his financial situation was despirate. One of my friends bought her, put in a small diesel, and it is a really sweet launch! There are all sorts of good hulls available after hurricanes in the South. You have to wait for a couple of years. People buy them at insurance auctions, with the fantisy of rebuilding or restoring them. Reality sets in, the yard bills mount and then the boats are given away-often for the yard bill.

As for the mini tugs--the question has to be asked how are you gong to use them? For a parade, for day cruising in protected waters? They are not really practical cruising boats. In about 1998, Trawler World (now Trawlers and Trawlering) followed for several years the construciton of a mini tug: 25 feet long. Small diesel, slept 4, built of Al in New Zealand, and the owner was going to bring it back to the US on its own bottom....well he went about 200 miles at sea, turned around and shipped to the US, where it sat in Port Townsend shipyard for a number of years. This was a very expensive experiment in small boat for crusing. I suspect that both the crampled quarters as well as stability/roll were probelms.

Have fun with the fantisies...
 
I always tell people not to listen to the nay sayers. Just go do it no matter how crazy, strange or dangerous. If you make it, good for you and if you dont it keeps you from breeding and we all win :lol:
 
dr bob,
i envision these boats being tied up behind a houseboats, or just a get around for an afternoon type trips. i've paid 15k for a 380 deluxe rib zodiac. couldn't do much with it. i think we would have had more fun with a mini tug. who doesn't like the attention a c-dory receives! this would not be a boat to cross the atlantic, however having said that who's game?
buying a building, which is nothing more than a pole metal type building is what i have in mind whether i build a mini tug or not. want something to house the motorhome, c-dory, woodwork equipment and just a place to hang out. i love my work, the agency is my child, and soon, it will be time to hand it over to our daughter, that is as long as she pays me!
i could put the mini tug on the trailer, park it in any marina and by the end of the day have offers!
you'll need to come to nashville, when the time is right and oversee some fun! no surgery, no complicated multi functional boat build, only a fine glass of red wine, r & r, and good fellowship! that way you and my son can figure me out!
best regards
pat
 
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