22 Cruiser vs. 25

That is so true...the biggest boats sit the longest and cruise the least around here too. I could not imagine owning a boat that is not used to..."boat". I have a friend who lives aboard a 36' sailboat and he has not gone out for a sail in over a year. He saves a lot of money on rent to live in Boston but what a waste of a boat.
 
Dora~Jean":2hknnt3g said:
localboymark wrote:
But my wife justified at as follows: "Some folks have large motor homes, some have cabins in the mountains or by a lake. This will be our cabin. We can take it almost anywhere and we'll be comfortable when we use it which will encourage us to use it more."
Interesting perspective. My neighbor bought a large motorhome about 3 yrs ago, 2 (or 3) roof A/C units, got a "steal" at $375K he said. Today it's worth about $175-200K I'd guess. I use my RV (CD25) more than he does his motorhome each year and go to very interesting islands to explore and relax. He, on the other hand, frequently stays at RV campgrounds, prefers 'pull-throughs' and builds wood fires in old, recycled washing machine tubs at one of the places -- on the asphalt.

Hmmm, which do I prefer? No question. Plus mine new cost only 1/2 of the depreciation he lost in just 3 yrs! So I'd propose that a trailerable cruiser like the C-Dory is a 'very cheap' alternative to a motorhome -- although he does get better gas mileage, about 6-7 mpg... :disgust

On top of that, your 25 footer can serve as an RV....comfortable as any travel trailer. Like your friend, you can park it in any pull through RV park and make asphalt fires. You can disconnect the boat, leave it at the park, and go see land sites. Unlike your one dimensional friend, you can put it on any pond and spend the afternoon in tranquility. Such an enviroment doesn't exist in an RV park, especially during the summer.
-Greg
 
dotnmarty":3ncnvty8 said:
Lake Union SeaRay has a used 2007 25footer, loaded, no trailer, advertized for $85,000, here
http://www.lakeunionsearay.com/content05.asp?nav=77707&

Nice boat, if you like seeing the sites through canvas, while living in a cave. I speak from experience, having owned three 25' express cruisers. I love the alaskan bulkhead that's in my boat and in the C-Dories. It's a room with a view, through high quality windows, not plastic.

FWIW, for those who like express cruisers, a better value is with Regal or Campion.

-Greg
 
Dene":1z9ne8jp said:
dotnmarty":1z9ne8jp said:
Lake Union SeaRay has a used 2007 25footer, loaded, no trailer, advertized for $85,000, here
http://www.lakeunionsearay.com/content05.asp?nav=77707&

Nice boat, if you like seeing the sites through canvas, while living in a cave. I speak from experience, having owned three 25' express cruisers. I love the alaskan bulkhead that's in my boat and in the C-Dories. It's a room with a view, through high quality windows, not plastic.

FWIW, for those who like express cruisers, a better value is with Regal or Campion.

-Greg

It's a C-Dory 25' Cruiser he's refering to.
 
Dene-

Not to offend you, as you probably already understand this, but here's something for our other C-Brats to think about:

An express cruiser is a bad idea, at least one under 30 feet in length, IMHO.

Having the helm 2/3'rds the way back on the boat, and only slightly raised above above basic rear cockpit level means several things:

1. The height of the forward cabin must be limited to see over it.

2. The windows in the cabin therefore must be low, narrow slits. Difficult to see out of from inside, if at all.

3. The cabin inside turns into a cave. No feeling of being outdoors at all.

4. The rear cabin area under the helm has very limited height. This is usually designed into a berth, but is often just used as a storage area because of it's limited space.

5. Walking around inside the limited height cabin is difficult.

6. The options of where to place various interior components is much more limited and difficult for the designer.

Now if you enlarge the boat to 30, 35, or 40 feet, the express cruiser becomes a much better option as the internal volume increases dramatically and the limitations above gradually disappear with increasing size and volume.

I personally prefer a sedan bridge, a tug, or other design for a boat under 30 feet.

A sedan bridge places the helm along with 4 or more extra seats on a flying bridge, thus expanding the helm area without depressing/limiting the space below.

The cabin height can be full, with large windows all around.

The interior is thus opened to full view of the outdoors.

There is much more total volume inside, and more options on how to arrange the interior components.

Plus you get a larger, separate rear cockpit area too boot!

I didn't understand this when I bought my Sea Ray, but it all became apparent in the first few months of ownership. Lucky me, I made the right choice anyway.

Hope this is helpful in furthering all of our understanding of boats in general.

Joe. :teeth :thup

88SeaRay27_1b.jpg


Sea Ray 268 Weekender Express Cruiser

1549853_1_1.jpg

Sea Ray 265 Sedan Bridge
 
Thanks for the correction. I saw Sea Ray in the link and made a false assumption.

Excellent post about the downsides of Express Cruisers. You experienced this after one boat....it took three for me. Fortunately, I didn't lose any money with these purchases and resales. There seems to be plenty of folks who like these boats. I especially don't understand this thinking in the larger boats. Bigger cave I guess.

Sedans rule! Express Cruisers drool!!

-Greg (currently enjoying the blue sky and view of Bainbridge Island while writing this)
 
I would consider both the CD22 and CD25 "small boats" for purposes of this principle! I doubt that CD25 owners either go out less or go shorter distances than CD22 owners!


El and Bill":nbksuwi5 said:
An old friend and boating mentor, who owned a marina, said to us, that except for ocean crossers (of whom there are very few), for the boats in his large marina, "The small boats go the most and farthest."
 
Pat Anderson":coq5w2ah said:
I would consider both the CD22 and CD25 "small boats" for purposes of this principle! I doubt that CD25 owners either go out less or go shorter distances than CD22 owners!


El and Bill":coq5w2ah said:
An old friend and boating mentor, who owned a marina, said to us, that except for ocean crossers (of whom there are very few), for the boats in his large marina, "The small boats go the most and farthest."

True dat, Brother Pat! :D
 
Hmmm -- regarding Steve and Kath's post above --

Since you have owned both the 25 and 22, do you think there is any difference in the towing, launching, retrieving, fuel consumption, and other inconveniences (like storage space or docking fees) between the two? Seems logical to assume that every foot of length adds (both comfort) and cost/inconvenience -- every owner decides on what level of comfort or cost/inconvenience they are willing to compromise on, but it would be helpful to have an honest opinion by one who has owned both, about the cost/inconvenience factor.

Perhaps the weight and length difference between the 22 and 25 is insignificant enough to bother with.
 
A couple observations from a female perspective. We personally think the 22 is the best looking boat they make. However, we have been on a 22 and both Don and I had to stoop a bit to look out the front window. I'm 5' 8. Also, the port a potty might be functional, but if you are planning on traveling with others, it's nice to have an enclosed head especially if anyone has to use it in the middle of the night. (Although Bill and El have made it work for years.)

We spent almost six weeks on our 25 in Alaska this summer and it was awsome. We weren't ready to come home, so that means there must have been plenty of room and we were the smallest boat at the dock everywhere we went.

The only down side is that we had to get a bigger tow vehicle, which I'm sure Don hated having to do. :wink:

Dee
 
Big mahalo to Chris (Sea Hooked) for the tour of his boat today. It's got me further leaning towards the 25' Cruiser. It was good to meet him and get some perspective, real world experience and advice on the 25.

He offered to take my wife and I out for a little tour and we are going to take him up on it.
 
In respect to Bill's post about length and weight of the 22 vs the 25; The weight is definately a factor. You need a much beefier tow vehicle. Most mid size SUV's will tow the CD 22--at 4000 to 4500 lbs. Figure the CD 25 at 7000 to 7500 lbs on the trailer--and you are up to a 3/4 ton truck--or a few SUV's like the 3/4 ton Suburbian, Ford Explorer (larger) and Excursions. We have just recently upgraded our transmission, suspension and hitch on our RV to tow the 25.

But I haven't found that the 25 is any more difficult to launch than the 22. I agree with Pat, all of the C Dory boats are "small boats".

We upsized because of the increased size of the foreward bunk and ease getting into the bunk on the Tom Cat and the CD 25. The head and shower may be a plus--but when possiable we either shower on shore, or jump in the lake/ ocean and wrinse off with fresh water or towel the salt off. We also like the foreward facing navigator seat. For some reason the visability from the 22 didn't bother us..even though we are both relitatively tall.
 
But I haven't found that the 25 is any more difficult to launch than the 22.
I agree with you Bob, the 25 is simple to launch and retrieve, proved that to myself on last outing when I single-handled the entire trip.

There are 4 features about the 25 that I found compelling for my needs vs the 22, plus one found later.
1. Enclosed/separate head.
2. Self-bailing cockpit.
3. Seating for 4 at the table.
4. Enough gas on board to go 200nm round trip with reserve (although gerry cans on a 22 would suffice).
5. That great foot space in front of both seats to store the ice chest when making the bed (discovered after purchase). Also stores 4 scuba tanks, 2 on each side, keeps the weight forward.

There are sacrifices in cost, towing weight and storage, but all have proved to be well worth it for me. Towing is also a non-problem, at least for me. I've towed larger rigs, this one is just fine.
 
I responded earlier in this thread; no, we have not owned both, but we have certainly put ours to the test over the past 20 months or so. When we were looking, we decided before getting the C-Dory that we wanted the smallest boat that would allow us to comfortably cruise. If you go over that last sentence, it is less about "smallest" and more about us comfortably cruising. Every couple has a different comfort level. Granted there are cost and weight differences in these two boats, but in my mind (and as Pat so eloquently stated) these boats are more alike than they are different. It all comes down to which boat best fits your cruising style... some folks like backpacking, some want a 5 star hotel. (Please note that I am NOT relating these two boats to that premise - just pointing out some perspectives).

We've traveled in a diesel pusher motorcoach and a 19' widebody campervan. And enjoyed both. Used them differently - we used to spend the whole winter in the coach, and don't think we could do that with the campervan. We need a dedicated place to sleep, a comfortable place to sit, cooking facilities, bathroom facilities, and (and this is important for us) room to move around each other. It was that last item more than anything else that made our choice the 25. There is no question we could cruise on a 22... but it's the volume of space in the 25 that makes it work better for us and allows us to stay out longer. Everyone's personal space requirements are different. 22 or 25? It's more about the people than the boat. Ease of use? With some practice, a person should have no problem getting comfortable with either.

It takes more than laying in the v-berth for a few minutes and sitting at the table. I don't mean this to sound like a bad re-run of Kung-Fu, but know yourself and you will know which boat is the best fit.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
We changed from a 30' Searay down to the 22'. I don't regret it.
It's a bit tight, but not that tight. Sure you bump into each other
in the cabin. But, that's OK. I like bumping into my wife. And there
is the back deck, the dock, or other boats when in a raft up when
it's just better to be out of the way. Heck, you can even hang out
on the pilothouse roof if you want to.

The 25 would have been an option, but at perhaps $15,000 to
change from an F-150 to an F-250 and at least $30,000 more for the
25': that's $45,000. Lots we can do with that money. It's fair
to say we would never have owned a C-Dory if we decided we needed
the size and would have bought something different that cost less.
Also: a trailer for the 25 costs $2-3K more.

A 25' will more than likely go through rougher water faster than a 22'.
But after getting caught in what we got caught in last summer, I was
very, very happy with 22'. Not that a 25' wouldn't have done just as
well. But, I don't think the extra 3' makes a difference with regard to
safety.

As for the self bailing of the 25' - I'd check into that before I put it as a
purchase reason. Not owning a 25', I haven't paid a huge amount of
attention to it, but it does seem like lots of people have problems with
the scuppers. A 22 doesn't really need to be self bailing because there
is almost no way for water to get into the cockpit that a small pump can't
handle. If you start taking water over the stern, no pump except maybe a
bucket and a person is going to handle that.

We used to worry about missing the enclosed head. In fact, it really
hasn't been a problem. I do miss taking showers, but we have one
of those Sun Showers. Haven't used it yet.

Mike
 
Mike,

You're reasoning is good, it follows along with many others as well. I usually have mixed company on board (daughter's friends, son's friends, etc) so the separate head is a plus in those situations, though could easily get by with the head up front, we did that for years in past boats.

We already had the tow vehicle because we have a 1989 22' camper also, weighs about 5,000 lbs. My '03 Expedition has an 8,700 lb tow rating (4x4). If I didn't have it, I would have thought much harder on the 22 vs 25. We use the Expedition for any family trips as well, very nice and comfortable, 18-19 mpg non-towing, highway.

The scuppers on the older models (mine is 2003) work just fine, no problems, I changed mine to ping pong ball type 1 week after delivery ($8 each). We too use sun showers, much easier cleanup, water just runs overboard right out the scuppers!
 
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