I had already made my decision that when I bought my next new boat it would be a 22" C Dory Cruiser. Now they are making a 23' Venture. What are the differences and are they discontinuing the 22' Cruiser? Since I do ocean fish the idea of a deeper V in the bow has to help the ride. Is the cockpit larger and self draining on the Venture or does it also require a bilge to clear rain water etc. I am about a year away from the purchase. Thanks
22' Cruiser vs 23' Venture
- Thread starter Will-C
- Start date
Alyssa Jean
New member
Discussions and threads have been going on about the 23 for about a year. Do a search and you will come up with all kinds of information.
starcrafttom
Active member
instead of searching I will just tell you what I think. The 23 is the improved model of the 22 IMHO. It fixes many of the down falls of the 22. Those being the low windows, the lack of head room in the berth, not having a flat floor (which the 22 now has) and having a open motor well ( which I have all ways hated but put up with). The bow entry does help in the chop. You can also put a bigger engine on it which I like. The windows in the 22 are to low and you can't see out of them while standing if you are 6ft. if you are 6ft you can not sit on the port pot in the berth on the 22 you can on the 23. I lke the flat floor and the storage that is avalible in the cockpit by closing the motor well. You do loose storage because they dont have the side storage bins like in the 22 but even the new 22's dont have as much as mine. I just think is a better boat. the Cape cruiser had a great table but Cdory has replaced it with a bigger table that is ok but not as cool as the old one. So if I like it so much why dont I have one?? because they came out after I bought my 22. If cape cruiser had came out 1year earlier I would own one hands down. My next boat is most likey be the 26 venture or the 26 seasport pilot house.
The 22 is the gold standard pocket cruiser. Bigger boats, including the 23 Venture, may embellish it and give you a little more of everything (including costs). A small thing negative, but I was surprised to see less aggresive non-skid decking on the 23. Also, if you're going to be trailering frequently from Buckingham to the shore (especially across the bridges at New Hope or Washingtons Crossing), I'd choose the 22. As for discontinuing the 22, I doubt it. Just the opinion of a guy who fell in love with the 22 on the Delaware some years ago.
Not For Hire
New member
I love Tom's posts and he has a great boat. I also fish a lot but do an equal amount of cruising. The venture has some nice features, but mainly it is a larger boat. 1000 lbs heavier dry weight, and needs more horsepower than the 22 and may need more towing vehicle than the 22. Most of its pluses are attributable to this increase in size but that also leads to some minuses as well. I agree with Tom's thoughts on the 25 to 27 Sea Sports, gas guzzlers but great off shore fishers, I would get the same thing in aluminum for my use if the 22 wasn't the best over all boat for me.
If I were to keep a boat in a marina instead of on my trailer I might have opted for the Venture 23 or 26 (CC 23 and 26 at that time) or one of the Sea Sports equivalents. There has been a lot of discussion on 22 v 25 and some of that discussion applies to the 22 and 23 comparison as well. I encourage you to read that. Some folks find the basic 22 plenty large enough to live on quite well. Check the Halcyon link on the front page.
For me the 22 is still the best choice, but my first mate never complains about the curtains or my cooking, he only says woof. In other words, how you gonna use the boat, single handed, three or more aboard, fishing, cruising, how many days, what waters, what tow vehicies do you own, how handy are you, what level of sophistication do you want in the interior (woof), etc. All are personal questions.
Now I will discuss Tom's post.
>instead of searching I will just tell you what I think. The 23 is the improved model of the 22 IMHO.
Not improved, just different.
>It fixes many of the down falls of the 22. Those being the low windows, the lack of head room in the berth, not having a flat floor (which the 22 now has) and having a open motor well ( which I have all ways hated but put up with).
Low windows, yeah I would like them up as well but that sorta means a bigger boat. If they were moved to the top I don't think I could see out very well when standing up. Score an important point for the 23, tall people can't drive the 22 standing up and see out.
Head room in berth - I supposed it would be nice to sit up in there but not such a big deal to me, again that is something that goes with a bigger boat.
No Flat floor - in Bill's words a solution in search of a problem. The floor in the 22 slopes a bit. No problem. I really like that the deck is the hull. I like having two bilges because when I am forward the boat slopes forward. The self bailing feature of the 25 is good for rain, but unless you have scuppers the size of your head and a number of them - the self bailing is not for green water. None of the CDs or CC is large enough to have a self bailing deck in that sense. I like not having a hidden area for anything to collect, for the fishing platform, and to keep the gunwales higher compared to me feet.
Open motor well - my 22 doesn't have one, it has a board and handy opening shelves and places to put rod racks and downriggers, and tool storage, and store fenders on the flip side. An easy customization.
>The bow entry does help in the chop. You can also put a bigger engine on it which I like.
Better ride in chop for the 23, I believe it. But also more gas, less efficient at low speeds. more speed to plane, a little deeper draft too.
>The windows in the 22 are to low and you can't see out of them while standing if you are 6ft. if you are 6ft you can not sit on the port pot in the berth on the 22 you can on the 23.
I certainly do wish I could stand and see out in the 22. This is real point but a taller pilot house? I usually don't use the porta pot in the berth area. Generally not out with mixed company, just the dog and fishing buddies generally. They make a shorter pottie as well that some have tried.
>I like the flat floor and the storage that is avalible in the cockpit by closing the motor well.
Flat floor means false floor, you lose depth in cockpit, lose some customizability, add weight, etc. Mind you a drier floor is nice. The storage in the motor well, I got that.
> You do loose storage because they dont have the side storage bins like in the 22 but even the new 22's dont have as much as mine.
>I just think is a better boat. the Cape cruiser had a great table but Cdory has replaced it with a bigger table that is ok but not as cool as the old one.
If I only used my boat in Lake Michigan (big choppy water) I may well agree with Tom. But to drag it to lots of other places, to drag it to skinny water, I like the 22. The 23 is a longer, wider, heavier boat, requiring more horsepower and more gas. Now none of those things are bad, just different.
>So if I like it so much why dont I have one?? because they came out after I bought my 22. If cape cruiser had came out 1year earlier I would own one hands down. My next boat is most likey be the 26 venture or the 26 seasport pilot house.
I would like to know what the cockpit is like in the Venture 26. If it is "self bailing" so the cockpit is shallow like the 25, needing guardrails, that would be a negative for me. If the deck were the hull or close to it the 26 might be a nice machine.
Undiscussed is the apparently different, and pricey, level of trim, finishing in the 22 v 23. I haven't seen the more recent molded interior 22s but don't think I would prefer them to the pre 06 or 07 models or whenever the change was made.
I think Tom has a good eye for some important differences in these boats. But different doesn't mean better just different (and bigger).
Regards from Mark, who most of all would like more time for boating.
If I were to keep a boat in a marina instead of on my trailer I might have opted for the Venture 23 or 26 (CC 23 and 26 at that time) or one of the Sea Sports equivalents. There has been a lot of discussion on 22 v 25 and some of that discussion applies to the 22 and 23 comparison as well. I encourage you to read that. Some folks find the basic 22 plenty large enough to live on quite well. Check the Halcyon link on the front page.
For me the 22 is still the best choice, but my first mate never complains about the curtains or my cooking, he only says woof. In other words, how you gonna use the boat, single handed, three or more aboard, fishing, cruising, how many days, what waters, what tow vehicies do you own, how handy are you, what level of sophistication do you want in the interior (woof), etc. All are personal questions.
Now I will discuss Tom's post.
>instead of searching I will just tell you what I think. The 23 is the improved model of the 22 IMHO.
Not improved, just different.
>It fixes many of the down falls of the 22. Those being the low windows, the lack of head room in the berth, not having a flat floor (which the 22 now has) and having a open motor well ( which I have all ways hated but put up with).
Low windows, yeah I would like them up as well but that sorta means a bigger boat. If they were moved to the top I don't think I could see out very well when standing up. Score an important point for the 23, tall people can't drive the 22 standing up and see out.
Head room in berth - I supposed it would be nice to sit up in there but not such a big deal to me, again that is something that goes with a bigger boat.
No Flat floor - in Bill's words a solution in search of a problem. The floor in the 22 slopes a bit. No problem. I really like that the deck is the hull. I like having two bilges because when I am forward the boat slopes forward. The self bailing feature of the 25 is good for rain, but unless you have scuppers the size of your head and a number of them - the self bailing is not for green water. None of the CDs or CC is large enough to have a self bailing deck in that sense. I like not having a hidden area for anything to collect, for the fishing platform, and to keep the gunwales higher compared to me feet.
Open motor well - my 22 doesn't have one, it has a board and handy opening shelves and places to put rod racks and downriggers, and tool storage, and store fenders on the flip side. An easy customization.
>The bow entry does help in the chop. You can also put a bigger engine on it which I like.
Better ride in chop for the 23, I believe it. But also more gas, less efficient at low speeds. more speed to plane, a little deeper draft too.
>The windows in the 22 are to low and you can't see out of them while standing if you are 6ft. if you are 6ft you can not sit on the port pot in the berth on the 22 you can on the 23.
I certainly do wish I could stand and see out in the 22. This is real point but a taller pilot house? I usually don't use the porta pot in the berth area. Generally not out with mixed company, just the dog and fishing buddies generally. They make a shorter pottie as well that some have tried.
>I like the flat floor and the storage that is avalible in the cockpit by closing the motor well.
Flat floor means false floor, you lose depth in cockpit, lose some customizability, add weight, etc. Mind you a drier floor is nice. The storage in the motor well, I got that.
> You do loose storage because they dont have the side storage bins like in the 22 but even the new 22's dont have as much as mine.
>I just think is a better boat. the Cape cruiser had a great table but Cdory has replaced it with a bigger table that is ok but not as cool as the old one.
If I only used my boat in Lake Michigan (big choppy water) I may well agree with Tom. But to drag it to lots of other places, to drag it to skinny water, I like the 22. The 23 is a longer, wider, heavier boat, requiring more horsepower and more gas. Now none of those things are bad, just different.
>So if I like it so much why dont I have one?? because they came out after I bought my 22. If cape cruiser had came out 1year earlier I would own one hands down. My next boat is most likey be the 26 venture or the 26 seasport pilot house.
I would like to know what the cockpit is like in the Venture 26. If it is "self bailing" so the cockpit is shallow like the 25, needing guardrails, that would be a negative for me. If the deck were the hull or close to it the 26 might be a nice machine.
Undiscussed is the apparently different, and pricey, level of trim, finishing in the 22 v 23. I haven't seen the more recent molded interior 22s but don't think I would prefer them to the pre 06 or 07 models or whenever the change was made.
I think Tom has a good eye for some important differences in these boats. But different doesn't mean better just different (and bigger).
Regards from Mark, who most of all would like more time for boating.
Dave-
Great posts from Tom, Marty, and Mark: and good advice from David to review the tons of good advice already available in our Library!
Be sure to go to a boat show and see the difference up front, firsthand.
Then go to a C-Brat Get-Together (CBGT) and see both boats, talk to some owners, and get a few free rides and a drive or two!
Look at the sign up list for each CBGT, look at the profiles of the participants and see what model of boats they have, then go make some new friends and find out how each model really fits your style!
Good Hunting! And welcome aboard!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Great posts from Tom, Marty, and Mark: and good advice from David to review the tons of good advice already available in our Library!
Be sure to go to a boat show and see the difference up front, firsthand.
Then go to a C-Brat Get-Together (CBGT) and see both boats, talk to some owners, and get a few free rides and a drive or two!
Look at the sign up list for each CBGT, look at the profiles of the participants and see what model of boats they have, then go make some new friends and find out how each model really fits your style!
Good Hunting! And welcome aboard!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Dave,
Here is a link to a photo comparison of the CD 22 and the Cape Cruiser-(now Venture) 23.
http://groups.msn.com/C-DoryRedFox/sidebyside.msnw
The Venture 23 was the Cape Cruiser 23 which is no longer being built. The Venture is now built by C-Dory, and has a fancier interior that the Cape Cruiser 23 or the CD 22.
For utility and ease of trailering the CD 22 is widely liked and used. They trailer easily, to the point that after several hours on the road I would forget that I was trailering!! The 22 is only 7'9" wide and is easy to see past in the trucks mirrors. The 22 and trailer will most likely be under 5,000lbs GVW and is easy to tow.
Here is a link to a photo comparison of the CD 22 and the Cape Cruiser-(now Venture) 23.
http://groups.msn.com/C-DoryRedFox/sidebyside.msnw
The Venture 23 was the Cape Cruiser 23 which is no longer being built. The Venture is now built by C-Dory, and has a fancier interior that the Cape Cruiser 23 or the CD 22.
For utility and ease of trailering the CD 22 is widely liked and used. They trailer easily, to the point that after several hours on the road I would forget that I was trailering!! The 22 is only 7'9" wide and is easy to see past in the trucks mirrors. The 22 and trailer will most likely be under 5,000lbs GVW and is easy to tow.
Les Lampman
New member
You can not compare a heavier, larger, and more expensive boat to a lighter, smaller, less expesive boat. You can make the choice as to which is better for your needs but no meaningful direct comparison is possible. So the question becomes...are the things that the Venture 23 has worth the $15,000-odd dollars extra that one pays for it to you (and you and yours alone)?
Really, it's like putting a Dodge Dakota (even with the 'V-8') up against a full size Dodge Ram pickup. It's true they're both pickup trucks but there the similarity and direct comparisons end.
The overall loaded weight of the Venture 23 on its trailer is going to push it into the next category of tow vehicle; if you already own such a beast that's not a problem but for many it would also mean the purchase of a larger tow rig.
Really, it's like putting a Dodge Dakota (even with the 'V-8') up against a full size Dodge Ram pickup. It's true they're both pickup trucks but there the similarity and direct comparisons end.
The overall loaded weight of the Venture 23 on its trailer is going to push it into the next category of tow vehicle; if you already own such a beast that's not a problem but for many it would also mean the purchase of a larger tow rig.
starcrafttom
Active member
come on guys. heavier by a 1000#s longer by 1ft and only $10k more. I call that two boats inthe same range. I love how the 25 is easy to tow but the 23 is a monster? the 23 is still in the same class and range as a 22. so is a 22 sea sport, arima 22 cabin and a 22 balyliner trophy and some of the alumminum boats. Now none of these boats are "the same" but they are all with in a range that a buyer would be looking at. I looked at most of the above boats and picked the best one for me at the time given my needs and abilitys. The Cape cruiser/venture was not out at that time and for me it would have be the better boat. Now I will never get one because we want to spend more time aboard and for that I need a stand up head and more room. As far as the seasport being called a gas hog, you should look into that more before you speak. 25 cdory with out boards is going to burn 6 to 10 gallons a hourdepending on how you run it. A 26 seasport with i/o diesal burns 8 to 10 gallons and give you a better ride in the bumpy stuff with a LOT more room. just hope I can still come to gatherings when I get one in 5 to 10 years.
flapbreaker
New member
I agree with Les. They are similar boats but for many of us, the 23 crosses over to a different level of boat. For people with big tow rigs I don't think it's as obvious but for many people the 22 cruiser is the only 22 foot cabin cruiser around that we can tow with a mid sized SUV. The 23 venture is a nice boat but there is no way I could safely tow it with my current rig. THe beauty of the 22 cruiser is it's simplicity and light weight. It's a very functional boat that didn't require a monster truck to tow. If money were not a deciding factor then I'd buy the 23. Your best bet is to actually set foot on both boats and then weigh the costs. If the 23 fits your budget and tow rig then go for it.
journey on
New member
Something no one has mentioned so far, is that on the C-25 at least, the V-26 side decks are wider, thus leaving a narrower cabin. Unless they increased the beam on the V-23, this would be true of the V-23 against the C-22. I camp in Journey On, and want the widest cabin possible. The small increase in the side deck is too small to be relevant. A good grip on the cabin top rails is mandatory in either case.
As to C-Dory self draining cockpits,the deck in the aft cockpit is about 2" above sea level, with no one in the cockpit. The drainage is slow. For those who complain about fishing off a high platform, I have to ask if 2" makes a difference. Get a couple of people back in the cockpit and you have to plug the drains. I love self draining cockpits, but I'm not impressed by those on Journey On. 4" dia holes might be OK, but the 1"holes don't cut it.
Boris
As to C-Dory self draining cockpits,the deck in the aft cockpit is about 2" above sea level, with no one in the cockpit. The drainage is slow. For those who complain about fishing off a high platform, I have to ask if 2" makes a difference. Get a couple of people back in the cockpit and you have to plug the drains. I love self draining cockpits, but I'm not impressed by those on Journey On. 4" dia holes might be OK, but the 1"holes don't cut it.
Boris
Hi Tom,
I envy you being on the "upward slope" of boating and that is to desire to get a bigger or faster craft. However along with this these boats tend to more complicated, require higher maintenance, and are more expensive to purchase and own. It is fun to dream and to desire something "better". You are no different than those of us who now own a 22 footer; except many of us are on the downward slope of our boating desires. For us the 22 footer suits our needs and does it admirably well. As Mark said so succinctly, "one is not better only different". I for one have owned nearly a dozen boats, several bigger that my 22 cruiser. I can truthfully say, now that I am retired, C-Batical has taken me fishing more often, been to more distant ports, taken me safely through more rough water, and at far less expense than any my other boats. I go more places today than any of my friends who have boats in the 30 to 50 ft range. Would the 22 footer suit my needs earlier in my life when I had three kids at home and their friends to take along for cruises and fishing? The answer is no, however, each boat met my needs at the time. Having said that, I am glad that I now don't have any one of those bigger boats at this point in my life. Now, I don't have the expense or limitation of keeping my boat at a marina, I can tow it with my Toyota Tacoma, my wife and I can comfortably stay on it, it is a very safe boat, and I cruise at 4 mpg. Life gets no better than this. This year will be my fifth season with C-Batical and I don't know of any other boat that I would be happier with and that list includes the 25 footer, the Rosborough and the Tom Cat. Again as Mark said, "one is not better only different"
Best regards,
I envy you being on the "upward slope" of boating and that is to desire to get a bigger or faster craft. However along with this these boats tend to more complicated, require higher maintenance, and are more expensive to purchase and own. It is fun to dream and to desire something "better". You are no different than those of us who now own a 22 footer; except many of us are on the downward slope of our boating desires. For us the 22 footer suits our needs and does it admirably well. As Mark said so succinctly, "one is not better only different". I for one have owned nearly a dozen boats, several bigger that my 22 cruiser. I can truthfully say, now that I am retired, C-Batical has taken me fishing more often, been to more distant ports, taken me safely through more rough water, and at far less expense than any my other boats. I go more places today than any of my friends who have boats in the 30 to 50 ft range. Would the 22 footer suit my needs earlier in my life when I had three kids at home and their friends to take along for cruises and fishing? The answer is no, however, each boat met my needs at the time. Having said that, I am glad that I now don't have any one of those bigger boats at this point in my life. Now, I don't have the expense or limitation of keeping my boat at a marina, I can tow it with my Toyota Tacoma, my wife and I can comfortably stay on it, it is a very safe boat, and I cruise at 4 mpg. Life gets no better than this. This year will be my fifth season with C-Batical and I don't know of any other boat that I would be happier with and that list includes the 25 footer, the Rosborough and the Tom Cat. Again as Mark said, "one is not better only different"
Best regards,
starcrafttom
Active member
I have to disagree. If you have a mission that you need filled and you can define that mission and the needs of that mission than you can find the better boat for that mission. Now my mission and your mission may be differnet but one boat will fill that mission better. Beyond that I think that the two boats are not differenet enough to fill two missions. The are both small trailerable cruising boats that you can fish out of. they both use small out boards ( under 150hp) sleep two, get good gas mileage (under 6 gh) and have a place to cook and eat. Are very seaworth and can behandled by one person. So whats the difference? I cant see out of the 22 when Iam standing I can out of the 23 because of a better design. I can sit up on the head ( and maybe you like to scwat in front of the dag but not me) in the 22 , I can in the 23 because of a better design. I have more room in the back deck becasue of a better design in width and storage of the design, not to mention not having that dam hole to the ocean in the motor well. (god I hate that thing) . The ride in the 23 is a little better than the 23 but not by much, but I does not take much. Why better design. Both boats were designed by the same guy and the current builder is not it. The current factory has so little to do with the design of both boats that its none existant. And why did he design a new boat (other then make money)? to correct and improve the design, and they did a good job. look I dont own the best designed fishing rod on the market and I dont pretent too. Why would I pretent to own the best designed boat for my mission when I dont????
Now the next boat will be the biggest boat I ever buy. anything bigger will not fit my mission. Neither the 22 or 23 will fit that mission. The 25 the 26 and the seasport will. I dont know which is the best design for that mission just yet but I will before I buy one. This site and others helped me choose the best design for my mission available at the time. Since then things have changed. In the future another boat may come out and be better then both of these, who knows.
if money was not a concern I would not own any of these boats. A 60 fter with a 22 stabi-craft on the back deck would be in order but thats just not happening.
Hmm, I never considered the windows a problem when I owned a CD 22--and I am 6'2"...so I wonder how much of a "problem" this really is? Same for using the portipotty. I think that you can find precieved problems in any boat--and find other plusses in any other boat.
Definately the CD 22 is easy to tow with a SUV--such as the Honda Pilot we used part of the time--and an RV. I just spent a number of thousand dollars to upgrade the transmission and tow bar on the RV so I can tow the CD 25 with that same vehicle--I would have to do that for the Venture 23--so I agree that the costs are not that of the boat, but that of a larger outboard and tow vehicle. If the 23 needs a 130 HP engine, vs a 90 hP engine--that willl be more weight, expense, and poorer fuel economy.
I have yet to see a Venture 23, so I am holding reservation--but I would have to drive one in various conditions before I would pronouce that it was much better in running condtions--I suspect that the difference in a 2 foot chop would not be all that much different, but until I run one, I won't know. We had considered the Cape Cruiser 23 and 26 when I pruchased the CD 25--I didn't feel that the boats warrented the increased price at that time.
Definately the CD 22 is easy to tow with a SUV--such as the Honda Pilot we used part of the time--and an RV. I just spent a number of thousand dollars to upgrade the transmission and tow bar on the RV so I can tow the CD 25 with that same vehicle--I would have to do that for the Venture 23--so I agree that the costs are not that of the boat, but that of a larger outboard and tow vehicle. If the 23 needs a 130 HP engine, vs a 90 hP engine--that willl be more weight, expense, and poorer fuel economy.
I have yet to see a Venture 23, so I am holding reservation--but I would have to drive one in various conditions before I would pronouce that it was much better in running condtions--I suspect that the difference in a 2 foot chop would not be all that much different, but until I run one, I won't know. We had considered the Cape Cruiser 23 and 26 when I pruchased the CD 25--I didn't feel that the boats warrented the increased price at that time.
flapbreaker
New member
Thataway, I'm impressed that you can tow the 25 with a honda pilot but then I realized your in Florida..... No mountains. There is no way I could tow the 25 with my sporttrac over the coast range with that. Lucky you.
Anyway's I think the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I truly believe that c-dory's are purpose built boats. Just buy the one that best fits your purpose.
Anyway's I think the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I truly believe that c-dory's are purpose built boats. Just buy the one that best fits your purpose.
They had both the 23-venture and 22-cruiser side by side at the Anchorage boat show a few weeks back. Both are beautiful boats. The venture did seem to have a little more room - not much different from the 22-cruiser though (would be hard to tell the size differences if you weren't familiar with one or the other). Both seemed extremely similar - the venture definitely had some nicer amenites/extras though. Seemed a bit more polished than the 22. Still, I like the utilitarian feel of the 22 more - if I'm slogging around on it with muddy boots, fish guts, and saltwater everywhere - I won't have to cringe when it gets dirty and used.
Either boat is a winner. Though, in my opinion - I would save a few bucks and get the 22 - you can use that money to help pay for $3 gallon gas.
Either boat is a winner. Though, in my opinion - I would save a few bucks and get the 22 - you can use that money to help pay for $3 gallon gas.
With a standard 3/4 ton truck trailering differences are going to be negligible, even in hills and mountains, gas mileage will be same. Big trucks generally not more expensive than the Japanese mid-sized trucks, just more challenging for some to park. They sure tow better.
Storage in the cockpit along each side of the 23 Venture is available. I specifically asked this at the SBS. There is more room inside the 23 cabin, it is wider as are the gunwales outside. These were selling points for both my wife (who sat down at the table and liked the increased elbow room) and me (who needs to get up on the bow quickly). Neither table will seat four adults comfortably.
When anchored and fishing with the wind blowing from the stern and the river current running the opposite direction in the Columbia, the waves in August stand up taller. An open stern like on the 22 Cruiser will ship more water. I don't think either is self bailing. Keep the batteries charged for the bilge pump. CW
Storage in the cockpit along each side of the 23 Venture is available. I specifically asked this at the SBS. There is more room inside the 23 cabin, it is wider as are the gunwales outside. These were selling points for both my wife (who sat down at the table and liked the increased elbow room) and me (who needs to get up on the bow quickly). Neither table will seat four adults comfortably.
When anchored and fishing with the wind blowing from the stern and the river current running the opposite direction in the Columbia, the waves in August stand up taller. An open stern like on the 22 Cruiser will ship more water. I don't think either is self bailing. Keep the batteries charged for the bilge pump. CW
Les Lampman
New member
Tom,starcrafttom":2lmr7cdz said:
You need to add everything up. I'm trying to give realistic real world numbers; I've no dog in the fight. I've done the math several times and I'll stand by my numbers. And none of the boats you cite (Sea Sport 22, Arima 22, Bayliner Trophy) are even close to the C-Dory 22. It's like comparing an old style VW bus with an American van. Even the most uninformed buyer would point to the CD22 in that line up when asked which was the smallest boat. And unless you find someone to sell you something at cost $10,000 isn't going to cover the difference (unless you're not buying an engine or trailer).
A lot of tow vehicles are rated for 5500 pound or thereabouts; that means they can tow the C-Dory 22 but they can not tow the Venture 23. It can and does make a difference.
And don't mix your drinks. You likewise can't compare a Sea Sport with a DIESEL I/O (and I/O's suck as far as I'm concerned (and we were a Volva Penta dealer); I've yet to see a more complex, more problem prone, less efficient way to transfer power to the water) with a boat using gasoline outboards for power. How is that appples-to-apples? You also can't compare the price...there's a reason more Toyotas get sold than Mercedes even though they're both acknowledged to be nice cars. Right now the D3-190 Volvo Penta I/O in the RF-246 runs $15,000 more than a pair of Honda BF90's. The Honda's burn about 5 GPH at 12 knots (total) and the D3 about 4.3 GPH at the same speed. Not really a "to write home about" difference.
The initial cost of that diesel, ongoing maintnance costs, and loss of space inside the boat will not be a plus for the average boater using the boat 100 hours or so a year (or even 200 or 300). It's not only about the gallons-per-hour but also the cost-per-hour if fuel, maintenance and initial purchase price are all factored in; it's not an arguement that wins except in very few cases. And the darn things are noisy and they stink! If you just WANT it that's a different story; that's why we buy what we buy but for some reason we think we need to justify it somehow (which I think is nuts...if you want it and can afford it, just get it).
The only thing a deep-v hull does better than a modified-v hull or traditional work hull is go faster in rough water; it's specifically what it was designed for. So if you can honestly answer that you're willing to give up all the other better attributes in other hulls for that one specific thing the deep-v does best then it's the boat for you. For the most part folks buy what dealers sell and most sell deep-v hulls because it's what large manufacturers build. And they build them because way back in the day when folks wondered why you'd buy a plastic boat when you could have a perfectly good wood boat they found a hull shape that couldn't (easily) be built in wood. And besides...all the racers used them so didn't that make them better?
And I defy you to find more room in the Sea Sport 26 as oppossed to a CD25 or Rosborough 25 or the Orca 24 or the Whatever 25. If it's 25 long and 8.5' wide and has a relatively traditional monohull shape they all have about the same cubic feet of space inside. When you drop an I/O in the stern you lose a lot of that space...period.
To end this diatribe I'll just reiterate what I tell everyone I deal with...find the best possible set of compromises (all boats are) and purchase the vessel that you think you'll be happiest with in your life.