22 cruiser seaworthiness compared to larger express cruisers

W

wrasse

New member
I'm considering buying a 22 cruiser as it's getting cold here and I'm dying to get on the water and do some cruising! I have a cobalt 27ft dayboat that I love to use in the summer but it's really a fair weather only boat.

I did alot of reading on this site and 22 cruiser seem to have a good reputation for seaworthiness due to it's hull design, and ability to plane at low speeds. I'm also considering a larger searay express cruiser in the 28-30ft range with full canvas for colder weather cruising needs but leaning heavily toward the dory.

The enclosed pilothouse on the dory is great but with that said, which craft/hull would do better strictly from handling of rougher waters? ie, which would be more seaworthy? I know, very different boats and boating, just curious which would do better and be safer when puget sound gets rough.
 
Ultimately, it'll boil down to your personal comfort and preferences (since you're probably buying the boat for you and not for me :smile ). Obviously, as owners of C-Dory boats, the majority of us feel the C-Dory is very seaworthy -- any boat is as good as the operator's judgment!

Caty
 
I know very little about the Sea Ray Express Cruiser, but question why you are comparing a 22-foot C-Dory to a 30-foot Sea Ray. Why not look at the 25 C-Dory Cruiser or the 255 Tomcat. Size wise they would match up better to the 28 to 30-foot Sea Ray.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
It's because I would get the 22 as a second boat or sell the cobalt and just get 30 searay. A cobalt and 25 c-dory would be too much money tied up in boating =)


oldgrowth":1dirvbb2 said:
I know very little about the Sea Ray Express Cruiser, but question why you are comparing a 22-foot C-Dory to a 30-foot Sea Ray. Why not look at the 25 C-Dory Cruiser or the 255 Tomcat. Size wise they would match up better to the 28 to 30-foot Sea Ray.
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Dave dlt.gif
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I think you need to define what seaworthy means to you. For example the heavier a boat is the more comfortable it will be. But if you are talking about falling off a wave in a c-dory or a sea -ray.....c-dory wins hands down. Don't under estimate the building process where c-dorys eliminate the hull deck joint. That's a very big deal in my opinion. I was a marine surveyor for many years and i trust a c-dory over a sea ray any day of the week. That being said..creature comforts, smoother ride . more room, fuel isnt a concern and fair weather boating. Sea Ray is your boat.

regards
Jim D
 
Hmmm... since you'd be buying a CD-22 as a second boat, you've opened up a whole 'nother comparison. When things get rough in Puget Sound, you could load the 22 up on the trailer and easily take it someplace where it isn't rough. 8) Try that with a 30' SeaRay.

At the risk of offending some, when things turn crappy, bigger is usually better. But in this case, you're comparing different hull forms... making that "bigger" comparison less valid.

Ask here, and we'll tell you how much we like our C-Dorys. Go to a SeaRay forum, and they'll tell you how good those boats are. Go to most boat brokers and tell 'em you're deciding between those two boats, and they'll likely tell you to come back when you're serious. :wink:

SeaWolf Joe might be able to shed some insight on the differences. Good luck with your decisions.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
Wild Blue (CD-25 that works just right as a day-tripper and a long-term cruiser)
 
JamesTXSD":13w39tl0 said:
<Stuff Clipped>

SeaWolf Joe might be able to shed some insight on the differences. Good luck with your decisions.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
Wild Blue (CD-25 that works just right as a day-tripper and a long-term cruiser)
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Jim D largely summed it up above:

"I think you need to define what seaworthy means to you. For example the heavier a boat is the more comfortable it will be. But if you are talking about falling off a wave in a c-dory or a sea -ray.....c-dory wins hands down. Don't under estimate the building process where c-dorys eliminate the hull deck joint. That's a very big deal in my opinion. I was a marine surveyor for many years and i trust a c-dory over a sea ray any day of the week. That being said..creature comforts, smoother ride . more room, fuel isnt a concern and fair weather boating. Sea Ray is your boat."

The Sea Ray 265 Sedan Bridge I've got is

1. four times as big inside as my 22,

2. four and a half times as powerful,

3. consumes proportionately more fuel,

4. crushes and cuts waves rather than goes over them,

5. drives like a different type of vehicle entirely with your head 11 feet above the water on the flying bridge, (you don't want to be on a flying bridge when the weather turns really nasty and the sea gets lumpity bumpity)

6. is built like a luxury car inside as compared the spartan C-Dory
(it has such a fine headliner in it that I wake up, look at the ceiling, and think I'm in a coffin!)

7. is so fully refined and finished inside you can barely find anywhere to route a wire or add an accessory,

8. is a wonderful fair weather touring cruise ship and floating condominium, (but it's really much more fun go go out and hobby horse the waves in the CD-22).

9. is a different animal with well over twice the creature comforts of the CD-22, and

10. it serves us better as a party barge and to host another couple in comfort (and wear your yacht club blazer on), but

11. if I had to give up one or the other, you'd find me taking the CD-22 down to Davey Jones locker in my final moment of consciousness to serve as my final resting place at sea.

Joe. :teeth
 
Joe Said....

"(it has such a fine headliner in it that I wake up, look at the ceiling, and think I'm in a coffin!) "
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Everytime I read one of Joe's posts I can't help but laugh out loud. What a character.

Jim D
 
OMG, Joe!!!!

With #11, you're going to get the folks here all upset to the point that they'll set up a suicide watch! :twisted:

Yeah, I know... back to my corner.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I can say this about it. I found myself 22 miles offshore last weekend in 3 to 5 foot seas. Forcast called for 1-2, thats why I went out to the artificial reef, but it went sour in the afternoon.

Uncomfortable ride back, but never was scared. Wipers going constantly. Quartering following sea made you keep alert because the stern would sometimes kick around and the boat would "head up". Autopilot not able to keep up with it. Made 12-15 knows back. Not blazing speed, but thats not why I bought the boat.

And only one lousy spanish machrel to show for it. Love the boat the more I use it.

By the way, I keep my boat in the water. Across from me is a brand new $300,000 Sea Ray. I think its a 34 footer. Gorgeous boat. The wife and I took an evening cruise last week. When we got back to the dock the SeaRay owners were hanging out with a drink as any good marina boat owner should. They said they were going to go out but it looked too rough.

Come to think of it I have only seen the boat out once.
 
We owned a 28 foot Rinker (comperable to the 28 foot Sea Ray) and the 22 C Dory at the same time. As far as ultimate seaworthyness, the C Dory wins hands down. But you will not be able to go as fast--maybe--as in the Sea Ray. The reason is that even in a moderate V boat--lets say 20 degree dead rise, there is a limit--and you have to either be on a plane or at displacement speed. With the Sea Ray, the planing speed will be about 17 knots min--maybe slightly higher. Try bucking into true 4- 5 foot seas with the Sea Ray--it will be very uncomforatable--try running displacement speed of 7 knots, it will also be uncomfortable. If you want to run the C Dory 22, you can run it at 8 or 12 knots--and still have an acceptable ride--depending on the weather. The C Dory acellorates rapidly (assuming it is properly powered) and you can work the waves--you will not be able to do that with the Sea Ray. Also the cabin will be much more comfortable in the C Dory--with the Wallas heater/stove. The Canvas cuts the wind, but does not retain the heat.

Having said all of this--the C Dory is not for everyone. It is a boat which will pound, if driven too fast in chop--so that has to be taken into account. We have come across from the San Juans to Sequim in 30 to 35 knots of wind against the current and averaged about 10 knots--but it was working the waves, and speeding up when we could--slowing down when necessary.

The point about the hull to deck joint is excellent. There was a comparison of hull to deck joints, with photos on "The Hull Truth" currently. It is amazing how poorly most boats hull to deck joints are made. The C Dory is glassed over, and when the rub rail is riveted on, then epoxy is put over the rivet. Basically a monique hull, which is very strong.
 
wrasse":t691dlpg said:
It's because I would get the 22 as a second boat or sell the cobalt and just get 30 searay. A cobalt and 25 c-dory would be too much money tied up in boating =)
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If you are going to sell the cobalt to buy the Sea Ray, why not sell it and get a 25 C-Dory. Then you will not have money tied up in two boats. You will not have a need for the cobalt with the 25.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Because 8+ half naked people crammed in a CD25 bumping loud music and drinking :beer on lake washington on a hot summer day would be kind of odd and would get me kicked off this site :D My cobalt was built for that amongst others.

I was thinking 30 searay would be a do it all boat but, I think going for a more specialized second cooler weather boat route would be better and also save on moorage/operating costs. Besides, I'll have hard enough time convincing my significant other to come out with me on a blistery january day... my friends??? Well, forget them until the summer :mrgreen:
The little CD22 seems so versatile, boaterhoming, weekend couples cruising to a nice port, attempt at fishing, etc,

I think the more I think about it CD22 fits me and my current lifestyle.

oldgrowth":20gbh7e2 said:
wrasse":20gbh7e2 said:
It's because I would get the 22 as a second boat or sell the cobalt and just get 30 searay. A cobalt and 25 c-dory would be too much money tied up in boating =)
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If you are going to sell the cobalt to buy the Sea Ray, why not sell it and get a 25 C-Dory. Then you will not have money tied up in two boats. You will not have a need for the cobalt with the 25.
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Dave dlt.gif
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wrasse":cp0z0to5 said:
l on a hot summer day ]
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Did we have one of those this year?.... :roll: .....If so I must have missed it!

I do remember a verrry FOGGY chilly late July day, when I was glad to have the Wallas stove keeping us warm as we chugged out (with the assistance of the radar and chartplotter) to Sucia Island!........then during the weekend the onslaught of rain, where the enclosed cabin, Wallas stove and windshield wipers were a blessing!

Certainly didn't see any half naked bodies then.........However with the Wallas, I suppose you could cram a few half naked bodies in the cabin and you'd all be warm even in the winter! :mrgreen:
 
Most of my dock neighbbors are in the 35-45 foot range, most Sea Rays, some Chris Craft and others... Even though they are larger, the actual usable space in wet/cold/rough weather is very similar to the TomCat. I've got the stove, heater, sink,etc., right there at the helm, not hidden down in the cave.

When high winds hit the lake here, the TomCat pretty much outperforms everything else in the rough water - not that there is a big race or anything. It's just that you can plane it in rougher water at higher speeds and it's about as stable a platform as you can get be it fast or slow.

The 22 will, of course, get you home, and plane at low speed, and use less fuel, space, tow gas, etc.. But really rough seas are tough on everyone out there - they can wear you out wallowing around in those deeper V types faster than in the flatter hull types.


John
 
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