22' Cruiser in Chop, + etc.

Well , Brent makes a good point. I would definitely look at Parker and Steigercraft as well. They will give a much better ride at speed in the choppy stuff . They are also very plentiful in NY/NJ.
 
Parkers are good boats, but there is a price to be paid--The 21 uses a 150 hp outboard, and the 23 a 250 HP outboard. There is no galley, or dinette, the hull is a deep V--which of course gives the better ride. Not particularly an economical or shoal draft vessel, as Karl was searching for.
 
thataway":141j8x46 said:
Parkers are good boats, but there is a price to be paid--The 21 uses a 150 hp outboard, and the 23 a 250 HP outboard. There is no galley, or dinette, the hull is a deep V--which of course gives the better ride. Not particularly an economical or shoal draft vessel, as Karl was searching for.
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Ye, and that deep-v will roll back and forth side to side unmercifully when at rest in a beam sea. :crook

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Dave and others, regarding our "chop" in the Great Lakes. Our 2' chop/waves really are different from those in the Ocean at either coast. Thus perhaps why differing comments about the roughness of the ride in the CD-22. Most the time, when we are out in 2' waves in the Great Lakes, it's really more of a chop, and many times coming at you from different directions. And they are very short spaced, unlike what I saw from my few short times on the west coast. (I can think of only one time, while out Salmon trolling, where I was in 2 foot waves that were quite gentle. But that's not usually how it goes...) However, while I hear tales of the ocean guys handling swells of 10'+, I've been back to 2 kts in 6'-8' seas in the North Channel of Lake Huron still sticking my bow into the next wave placing green water over my bow! No, NOT FUN. I think this comment on the Hull Truth seems to speak to this better:

"I grew up on the lakes. Racing sailboats on all five.
Have lived and boated in SW Fl. now for over 20 years.
The lakes are much rougher than most ocean conditions.
Yes, the actual wave height might be bigger in the ocean.
But the fact that fresh water is less dense can make for a much steeper wave, that
is much rougher on the boat.
Had an uncle that was a captain on a lakes steamer.
He often related a story about strain gauges on ship hulls.
The lakes boats had MUCH higher readings than ocean going ships, again due to
the steepness and spacing of the waves."

2' chop on the Great Lakes can be handled by the 22 fairly easily by slowing down to displacement speeds. But anything faster will be jarring on the back and boat. Colby
 
Cosby,

I believe you. Fresh water peaks quicker and with shorter periods. The Columbia River where I often run is all fresh, but with fetches rarely over 10 miles. YOU GOT IT WORSE.
 
All good points on Parkers. just throwing it out since he is in Parker country

From a buddy


When I head out in our 2120 the boat is generally loaded with two big people, 36 gallon bait tank, full fuel tank, lots of ice and plenty of gear, so it's pretty well loaded down. In decent seas I find 3700 to 4200 rpm to get me between 18 and 22 mph which I like as a cruising speed. Based on GPS miles traveled and topping off the tank after trips the math works out to between 2.8 and 3.2 mpg.
 
South of Heaven":1dxn6cjw said:
Well , Brent makes a good point. I would definitely look at Parker and Steigercraft as well. They will give a much better ride at speed in the choppy stuff . They are also very plentiful in NY/NJ.
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The Steigers are on my short list, as they are semi-locally produced...eliminating ~$6K in shipping from the PNW for a welded-plate aluminum boat. BUT, I'm trying to eliminate the need for 250-300hp outboard.
I would prefer 115 max. hp. for economy reasons and realize a deep-vee hull won't allow that. Operating costs have become a major issue in retirement, and fuel docks close early here, like just after Halloween, so I would be hauling gas in 5 gal. containers from gas stations.

I would need a pilothouse (with cabin heat, to extend short season), and probably a drum anchor windlass to eliminate going to bow to cleat-off a conventional windlass...difficult for me in my current 23' walk-around, and I anchor frequently whenever I am able to acquire either my own WiFi or an open one. I use sectional and yagi antennas for 2.4 GHz, and generally can connect, with some FCC "cheating", for about 40 miles from home.
 
Karl: You mention budget being a concern (and I hear you) but you also state you wish to "buy new". Are you mainly thinking you don't want a project, or will high variable costs gnaw at you? I believe a new CD 22 costs upwards of $70K? There are plenty of sound used boats available for half that: $35K can buy a very nice used boat in the Seattle area provided the expectations are realistic. Also, does the pilothouse/heated cabin requirement include a hard bulkhead with door, or is rollup soft-back sufficient? I ask because I personally know of no hard-back pilothouse boat which meets your operational requirements and is also affordable (by middle-class standards) to buy new. Maybe looking at used boats will open things up for you? Something bigger/heavier which is sound but under-powered by market standards, but you don't care because you prefer slow and economical? Something which needs 150-200HP to run but which costs $25K to buy? I'm also unsure if tow vehicle concerns factor into your choice. For example: I noticed a used Rosborough 246 with twin 50HP 4-strokes offered for <$50K. Don't know anything about it except that it's arguably underpowered, but would handle lake chop easily, be economical to operate, and be comfortable and cozy inside. It would require a 3/4 ton tow vehicle however, and your cruising speed would definitely be below 20 knots. Perhaps a nice older used Nordic 26 with a single diesel? Or maybe the odd CD-22 with a 50HP outboard you see come up once in a while? You could even pick up a well-kept but older CD-22 needing repowered, and re-power with a new/used 50 HP 4-stroke for an economical displacement speed C-dory.
 
I keep hearing everyone talk about V-hulls doing better in the chop. My previous boat was a 1988 Searay 268 Sundancer. The thing was a pig compared to the C-Dory. Weighed twice as much, drank a lot more gas and was powered with a Merc 454 I/O with the Alpha drive. Maybe it's not the V-hull talked about, but to be honest I don't remember that thing being anymore comfortable in the chop. Then again, maybe I just didn't slow down much. :mrgreen: And in fact, didn't feel as safe in the bigger waves I've had my C-Dory in. Colby
 
I like Steiger boats too.

Will you be cruising primarily? or mostly fishing?
 
Always good to hear from you Thataway, My mistake on saying I am loaded with 3/8 G4, I should have said 1/4 G4. If you look at picture 1218 you should see a Lewmar V700G vertical windlass, they told me to install it on the bow, close to extended bow roller.

Cheers
 
Karl,

I live in the Rochester NY area, we have our 22' C-Dory on the Erie Canal. If you have not been on a 22' boat, you're more than welcome to contact me and arrange a get together. It sounded like you are in the Lake Champlain area of NYS, is that right? That's a long ways off, but the offer still holds. It will not give you a ride on Lake Ontario, but a Chance to ride in a 22 footer. We have ridden in some miserable weather on Lake Ontario, and as others have mentioned, it's not a lot of fun.
Regards,
Jack Howell
 
bschell":1pf4kojg said:
Always good to hear from you Thataway, My mistake on saying I am loaded with 3/8 G4, I should have said 1/4 G4. If you look at picture 1218 you should see a Lewmar V700G vertical windlass, they told me to install it on the bow, close to extended bow roller.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks, I had missed that photo 1218, and was looking for the profile of a large horizontal or vertical on the deck from the first views--my apology. The 250 feet of 1/4" G4 would be 175#. Half of the 3/8" chain.
 
Let's be real: short-interval 2 foot chop is the Achilles heel of the CD-22.
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It not much different on a 25, IMO. We have been in it and had to slow to a crawl.
 
We live in SW Fl. and the Gulf can be a washing machine many times 2-3 ft waves right on top of each other
We put the tabs down and engine trimmed in and can do about 8-12 knots 10-14mph or so .This is with the CC 23 Venture about 800lb more then a 22 a little deeper deadrise 6-7degrees vs 2-3 degrees .
When out with our boat club the CC-23 can usually keep up with the big boys 35-50ft as long as we can go 18-20 knots (tabs down engine trimmed in) and off course staying right behind the biggest boat helps . The ride in the venture series is very good compared to the 16/22 that we had previously .
So check out both the cd -22 and venture -23
 
You guys and your big C-Dory yachts complaining about 2 foot chop. Really. In the CD 16, I become airborne like a cat playing with a mouse. 2 foot chop can loosen my fillings.

The single best improvement I made was suspension seats. The seats (and balancing the weight) only allows a little more speed. Before, I slowed down when my back and butt couldn't take it. Now I slow down when I don't want the boat to have to take it. It is only a couple of knots difference. The real benefit is when travelling at a relatively comfortable speed and I hit something larger or out of sequence (rouqe chop??), the boat will shiver, but not my back.

Mark
 
I've used our CD22 on Lake Superior for 15 seasons and 2 foot chop is fine with trim tabs and permatrims pushing the bow down. Above 3 foot chop I go to 9 smph and down to 3 smph if really rough. Ride below 3' is fine and as it gets rougher there is no pounding but lots of rocking (headwind) or rolling (sidewind). Only experienced swells (what fun) two time in 15 seasons. Venture 23 appears from posts on this forum to be better in chop due to heavier weight and "deeper" vee; personally I don't like the upholstered interior but some may not have that or if buying a new one, order it without that.

Jay
 
the CC-23 venture (06-07) did not have the upholstered vinyl it was the same as the cd-22 when cdory took them over they added some very nice touches vinyl headliner more teak and more storage . I like them better except for the vinyl .
 
westward":18t74gob said:
I noticed a used Rosborough 246 with twin 50HP 4-strokes offered for <$50K. Don't know anything about it except that it's arguably underpowered, but would handle lake chop easily, be economical to operate, and be comfortable and cozy inside. It would require a 3/4 ton tow vehicle however, and your cruising speed would definitely be below 20 knots.
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I cruised for a day with a 246 that had the same twin 50 Yamaha's as the "Scotia Myst"(currently for sale). The owner said it liked to cruise around 9 knots - not sure what his top speed was. In spite of only being powered at 33% he did not consider it underpowered for his uses.

There is also a newer 246 for the same price with a 165hp Merc diesel I/O.

Rob
 
I'm really hoping to stay in the 23'-class, with 115hp (150 max), with the hp limit to reduce operating expenses, and also because in both early and late-season, there are no fuel docks open.

I have looked into alternative fuel sources, and it all comes down to 5 gal. containers...fuel caddies on wheels are required to be filled on the ground at gas stations, and DOT-approved gasoline-rated fuel trailers are expensive, like $5k and up. A caddie would be too heavy to load back into a truck by one person. I don't own a boat trailer, since I own waterfront property, and no proper towing vehicle.

Plus, I do a lot of anchoring, so a relatively flat-bottom hull would provide stability, yet I don't want another spinal fusion or disc replacement in the future, either.

I'm aware of the mil-spec active suspension seats, filled with hydraulics, springs, motors, gyros, and a computer, but totally unaffordable unless DOD is writing the check.

Maybe time to look at 6-knot trawlers? It's not like I'll ever have to be at work on time again...
 
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