22' C-Dory Capsizing

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Gene&Mary

New member
If we were running with the waves or rollers (the waves or rollers are hitting the side of the boat not the bow or stern), what is the maximum angle the boat could roll before rolling completely over.

Is there a wave height that would might achieve this angle? Would the flat bottom on the boat allow the boat to slide down the wave instead roll over?

Where is the CG of the C-dory......below the waterline? Does this make rolling over impossible?

thanks
 
You are asking for engineering/naval architecture information. There are many variables that make a single answer unlikely, i.e. wave heighteffects alone can be affected by wave spacing, angle of attack, wind, etc. Center of gravity depends on factors other than just hull design. Every individual boat will have a slightly different CG depending on load distribution on that day, etc. I think any boat, under certain conditions, can capsize, C-Dory included. Having said that, I have never heard or read of any C-Dory actually capsizing with the exception (I think) of one that was caught in surf but even that one, as far as I can recall did not turn turtle.

C-Dorys have a much lower CG than many of the "pagoda" boats with tall superstructures and are thus less likely to capsize than those boats so one could say the C-Dory is stable but not magic.
 
Gene&Mary":2kxct5tk said:
If we were running with the waves or rollers (the waves or rollers are hitting the side of the boat not the bow or stern), what is the maximum angle the boat could roll before rolling completely over.

Is there a wave height that would might achieve this angle? Would the flat bottom on the boat allow the boat to slide down the wave instead roll over?

Where is the CG of the C-dory......below the waterline? Does this make rolling over impossible?

thanks
Click to expand...

While I'm sure it is possible to find some conditions in which a C-Dory might capsize by rolling over, that's not the likely scenario that you'll get into trouble. The most frequent cause for almost all small boats to "capsize" is that they take on enough water in the cockpit that they get swamped and then turn over (AKA "turtle"). E.g. most boats that are said to have capsized didn't turn over by being rolled by a wave, they filled with water and then got turned over. Obviously the center of gravity will chance significantly once the boat is partially filled with water.

Other than that, I'm not sure how to answer your questions.
 
I sure can't answer your questions and have doubts if anyone else here can either. For me its enough to know that many, including myself have had our CD 22's in very rough water situations with good outcome results. There has been a few times I thought we might be approaching that almost roll over point. I know our first few times out on what we thought was fairly bad conditions was a bit bothersome with not knowing if we were nearing danger of roll or not. Now it would have to get really bad before being worried about the boat. More concern would be about properly handling and best way to get back to calmer water.

Jay
 
Gene and Mary,
Rollers are not generally a problem unless they have rocks nearby. Normally in bad conditions I would avoid traveling in nasty sea conditions that are hitting the boat broad side even if it requires a course change and a longer ride to were you are headed. Angling into waves at an angle or just trying to stay on the back side of big waves if possible to avoid going over the top and pitch poling (going end over end). Better yet watch or listen to the weather on a VHF radio and avoid anything more than 2' to 4' seas. Once winds hit 20 mph things start getting exciting depending what direction the tide is going. Wind against a tide can make for nasty conditions quickly. Your question depends on many variables. 22'C-Dory's generally have a lower center of gravity as you are standing either on or very close too the bottom of the boat below the water line. The helmsman can make all the difference in the world with the wheel, trim, throttle. The main is to try and remain calm and attempt to keep your wits about you. Whatever that means. Don't panic!
D.D.
 
Agree that no one really knows, but these boats have been in some really rough water, without capsizing. The bigger problem may be the occupants thrown about the boat, as it rolls.

I think that it is a good point that with the semi dory flat bottom, that the boat will slide, more than trip, as a keeled boat may do.

For a boat to pitch pole, (that is end over end) the waves have to be a height greater than the LWL, or 20 feet, and in beam seas, not only would the waves have to be over 7 feet (about effective beam waterline) but also of a peroid, that would actually tip the boat over, before the next wave--or very steep seas. We have been in 10 foot seas with out any fear when we owned the 22--but it was not comfortable.
 
Folks - CG for a 22' C-Dory? I probably represent the answer to this question: Which is worse, ignorance or arrogance? Answer: I don't know and I don't care. Seriously, I do care, but neither I nor anyone else will volunteer to put their boat into the kind of conditions which will create rolling over. My thirteen years experience with the 22' suggests that it will handle more water than we will. Opinion: only with an engine failure and being caught on the shore line in heavy seas without adequate rode should one worry about roll over, i.e., also not crossing the Columbia Bar at its worst.
 
To give a very simplified answer I will offer the following. Stability is based on center of gravity, center of buoyancy and the righting arm of the boat. The righting arm being the distance from the center of the boat to the edge that meets the water. Imagine being on a bouy in the water and climbing up a pole on the bouy. The higher you climb the more unstable you are. If you start to tip you can push yourself upright with a rod that has a float on the end. The longer the rod the more leverage you have assuming you can attain the stiffness required. As I've found the C'dory is very stable and seaworthy because your very low on the pole.
 
Boy ain't that the truth!! Every time I go to Roche Harbor and look at all the giant bubble boats I know just how low on the pole I and my C-dory are! :lol:
 
Gene&Mary-

There being no exact answer to this question (although the answers above are very informed, informative, and confidence inspiring), the best advice I can give you is to simply go out and enjoy your boat, taking on gradually more difficult conditions until the boat itself has taught you how incredibly stable and seaworthy it is, and at that point, you'll know how much it, and you, can handle.

One of the most common remarks heard here over the years is that folks come to realize that the boat will take on and handle conditions that are well beyond those that the owners feel comfortable to be out in. There is a significant margin here.

And the lack of any stories where boats have met with disaster without some complicating situation, (like rolling in the surf or having a stern anchor hang up in the prop), says as much or more all over again, with thousands of these boats in constant use.

Have fun and enjoy your boat!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thought, this our latest experience in the type of wave action you asked about, though still not answering your question might give more ease of mind about a CD 22's ability to handle waves hitting the side of the boat.

In late Sept while spending a week out on Yellowstone Lake, which is known for its very steep short spaced waves up to 6 feet, met two people exploring the lake by kayak with whom we spent several evenings around a campfire enjoying their company. On the day they had to leave for West Thumb launching area the winds were forecast to be high, so we told them we would check and make sure they made it safely. We caught up with them just inside the West Thumb narrows shortly after they were forced to shore with much difficulty. The wind was blowing 40 mph with higher gust and the waves were at least 5 feet and vertical. In order to try to communicate with them to see how we could help, we slowly circled coming in very close to shore broad side to the waves. In the process of circling took waves from every point of the boat with at no point feeling we were endangering the boat or us. Couldn't have said that a few years ago. The boat does react very much like a cork. The only point the pucker fact went up was on one pass by them on the beach a very strong gust of wind and wave hit us just as I was trying to swing back away from shore where it took max power to make the turn so as not to be driven onto the shore. The wind didn't stop to the wee hours of the following morning and they spent the night on the shore. Later when we got to our pickup to leave the park found a note on our windshield thanking us for checking to see if they were all right and saying they were amazed at how the Hunkydory handled the waves.

This is just one example and a minor event compared to many posted in the past.

Couldn't do much better then to just follow the advice given by Sea Wolf Joe.

Jay
 
Hi Folks,

One day I crossed the Nantucket Sound in 25 Knot winds in my 22' 1983 Classic Angler. The waves were coming from my port quarter (stern). The tops were a little white, but none were breaking.. I played the waves and had no problem at all. The engine was a new 75HP 4 Stroke Yamaha.
The boat sat on its starboard chine and my right leg was on the side. As the waves came they went under the boat. Never did a wave break on the boat.

When I got near the Nantucket Jetties, I had to tack out and the waves came on the port bow. When I ran into the channel I ran up the back of the rollers but not over them.

Interesting trip. I don't think I would do it again, but I know the boat will take it.

Fred
 
ffheap":7m34hufv said:
...
The boat sat on its starboard chine and my right leg was on the side....

...Interesting trip. I don't think I would do it again, but I know the boat will take it.

Fred
Click to expand...

Ha ha - when you've got your leg up on the wall of the cabin you know you got some heel! It reminds me of my recent experience of rough seas going from Gloucester to Salem. I too would not deliberately cruise in those conditions again, but it was a good learning experience.

--Matt
 
Sea Wolf":rryewsyg said:
Gene&Mary-

There being no exact answer to this question (although the answers above are very informed, informative, and confidence inspiring), the best advice I can give you is to simply go out and enjoy your boat, taking on gradually more difficult conditions until the boat itself has taught you how incredibly stable and seaworthy it is, and at that point, you'll know how much it, and you, can handle.

One of the most common remarks heard here over the years is that folks come to realize that the boat will take on and handle conditions that are well beyond those that the owners feel comfortable to be out in. There is a significant margin here.

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!! We learned during our five years of boating on C-Dancer exactly that lesson in much the way Joe described. The boat can handle much more than the skipper and admiral feel comfortable in. The boat has indeed taught us how stable and seaworthy she truly is.
 
Here is a link to another thread that discusses this subject considerably.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... rter+waves

We frequently boat with another couple who have a 22ft B-boat, Deep V, IO, and weighs in about 1200 pounds more than our 22 Cruiser. Is it more stable than ours? At anchor or at the dock, stepping aboard, it moves much less than the CD, and is considerably more roomy for the 4 of us. Cruising in any direction but directly into the waves, it rolls and pitches, (feels like more than our CD) and it is taller, (higher gunnels and more windage and longer lever arm to add more rocking.) Headed strait into the waves they can run faster than we do. At any other heading, we are about even in cruising speeds. In a 2-3ft beam sea, the CD is MORE comfortable, (feels more stable), and beyond that I am heading into the waves at least at a 45.

When we stop for fuel, we fill one half of what they put in, (He is running a 6 cylinder Merc IO and we are running twin Yami 40's,) yet we run side by side.

I have been in 6-8ft waves one time, and believe me, down in that hole, those waves looked very big. :amgry Fortunately they were spaced out enough so we had time to get from one to the next and turn in between if needed. The nice thing about those big waves, up on the top we could see where we were going. :wink

Would I do it again? Not by choice. Would my boat handle it again? Yes, I'm sure and safely, but there is considerable to be said for handling experience and motivation, trip planning and timing.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
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