My charts must be a little different than Richard's. By Navionics the straight line distance is 88 NM between Prince Rupert Yacht and Rowing club and the closest Marina in Ketchikan. Unfortunately you cannot quite go in a straight line--there are a few islands and rocks in the way... In any case, it is not a passage not to be feared--but all of the waters are to be respected. We go by Venn passage and Duncan Bay, which I believe is the shortest route. I have only done this passage 10 times, far less than Richard's 30.
2019 Inside Passage
- Thread starter colbysmith
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colbysmith
Active member
Bob & Richard, thanks again for your comments. All being considered! Harvey, I saw the PM briefly, but just now getting to catching up. I'll reply shortly. Regarding cruise speed, in a real hurry, maybe 20 mph or a tad bit more depending on how heavily I'm loaded & smooth water. Going to get somewhere, around 14-18 mph, not in a hurry around 12 mph, trawling (lol) about 6-7 mph. Bad waves, well in 6-8 footers (and not by choice) in the North Channel, I was only doing 3-4 mph. Lets not plan on that, ok? 
In unfamiliar shallow waters where I don't know how far things are beneath me, 6mph or less is usually my comfort speed. In all honestly, I can do whatever the others with me want to do.
To address another question in Harvey's PM, fishing. I may get a crab ring and do a little fishing, but that would be just to kill time. While I enjoy fishing, I find too many times the cost of a non-resident license doesn't usually support the lack of fish on the end of my line! Ie, I drown a lot of worms for nothing. :roll: No, this trip would be primarily for sightseeing and enjoying a cruise. Ideally there would just be 3 or 4 of us (boats) traveling together for safety and camaraderie. Of course if more join in, that's fine as well. Colby
In unfamiliar shallow waters where I don't know how far things are beneath me, 6mph or less is usually my comfort speed. In all honestly, I can do whatever the others with me want to do. To address another question in Harvey's PM, fishing. I may get a crab ring and do a little fishing, but that would be just to kill time. While I enjoy fishing, I find too many times the cost of a non-resident license doesn't usually support the lack of fish on the end of my line! Ie, I drown a lot of worms for nothing. :roll: No, this trip would be primarily for sightseeing and enjoying a cruise. Ideally there would just be 3 or 4 of us (boats) traveling together for safety and camaraderie. Of course if more join in, that's fine as well. Colby
colbysmith
Active member
I'm ok with the slow cruise too. Especially if the scenery is beautiful. 8) (Unless of course trying to outrun a storm!)
And photo taking is always good! Some from my last outing in Isle Royal National Park:
Tully-B and C-Otter
Midnight Flyer and Tully-B
Midnight Flyer, Tully-B and C-Otter rafted up at Hay Bay
Lee & Jan off the Tully-B and myself at the moose/wolf study camp
And photo taking is always good! Some from my last outing in Isle Royal National Park:
Tully-B and C-Otter
Midnight Flyer and Tully-B
Midnight Flyer, Tully-B and C-Otter rafted up at Hay Bay
Lee & Jan off the Tully-B and myself at the moose/wolf study camp
Crossing the Dixon Entrance between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan
We leave as soon as it's light enough to see wood on the water, and go slow at least until it's fully light. We go through Venn Passage coming out of PR - saves a lot of time, but we do need to follow the safe route carefully, especially as we round Tugwell Island heading out into Chatham Sound.
If conditions permit, we head from Venn diagonally across Chatham Sound toward Green Island, near the NE corner of Dundas Island, then across the open water to Tree Point, then sometimes to Foggy Bay for the night. If Revillagigedo Channel looks OK and I'm not too tired, we might skip Foggy Bay and head from Tree Point through Danger Passage (south of Mary Island), then between Ham and Walker islands, and on into Ketchikan. This is the shortest route, about 83 NM.
If non-trivial wind is from W or NW, we might cross Chatham Sound more quickly, come up along the east side of Dundas Island, and anchor in Brundige Inlet before crossing the most open water. If wind is from the Southeast and looks like it might be strong enough to bounce us a bit too much out in the middle of Chatham Sound, we stay along the east side of Chatham Sound, and cross the mouth of Portland Inlet. This is a longer route, but sometimes useful to protect from SE wind. There are a few places to anchor after crossing Portland Inlet, before we round Cape Fox and head up Revillagigedo Channel. Pond Bay on Duke Island is another useful anchorage along the way.
Here's how we analyze it, and decide if we're going to go. Tidal current direction vs wind direction is key.
First, the forecast should be 15 knots or less, for at least most of the duration between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan.
Second, conditions as reported at the Central Dixon Entrance buoy (Canadian WX, but also reported on US WX in Ketchikan), should be winds no more than 15 knots, seas no more than one meter.
Third, if winds are enough to pay attention to (like more than 10-12 knots), wind and tidal current directions should not be opposed when crossing the most open water, like in Chatham Sound heading up from PR, between Dundas Island and Cape Fox, or in Revillagigedo Channel up to about Mary Island. Depending on conditions, anywhere in these three areas could be challenging - wind vs current as the tide flows in and out can make seas twice as tall and much more vertical than they would be otherwise.
Sounds a little complicated, but if you're willing to wait a day or three you can usually find conditions that meet most of these criteria. On 2-3 occasions, always on the way back south, we've had to wait 5 or even 7 days . Depends somewhat on your tolerance for bouncing around. Most other places in SE AK are not as complicated to figure.
In 2017 for the first time I started using predictwind.com. It gives far more granular detailed forecasts than NOAA and Environment Canada, in more specific locations and in timing. Crossing the Dixon is a particularly good situation for it.
We leave as soon as it's light enough to see wood on the water, and go slow at least until it's fully light. We go through Venn Passage coming out of PR - saves a lot of time, but we do need to follow the safe route carefully, especially as we round Tugwell Island heading out into Chatham Sound.
If conditions permit, we head from Venn diagonally across Chatham Sound toward Green Island, near the NE corner of Dundas Island, then across the open water to Tree Point, then sometimes to Foggy Bay for the night. If Revillagigedo Channel looks OK and I'm not too tired, we might skip Foggy Bay and head from Tree Point through Danger Passage (south of Mary Island), then between Ham and Walker islands, and on into Ketchikan. This is the shortest route, about 83 NM.
If non-trivial wind is from W or NW, we might cross Chatham Sound more quickly, come up along the east side of Dundas Island, and anchor in Brundige Inlet before crossing the most open water. If wind is from the Southeast and looks like it might be strong enough to bounce us a bit too much out in the middle of Chatham Sound, we stay along the east side of Chatham Sound, and cross the mouth of Portland Inlet. This is a longer route, but sometimes useful to protect from SE wind. There are a few places to anchor after crossing Portland Inlet, before we round Cape Fox and head up Revillagigedo Channel. Pond Bay on Duke Island is another useful anchorage along the way.
Here's how we analyze it, and decide if we're going to go. Tidal current direction vs wind direction is key.
First, the forecast should be 15 knots or less, for at least most of the duration between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan.
Second, conditions as reported at the Central Dixon Entrance buoy (Canadian WX, but also reported on US WX in Ketchikan), should be winds no more than 15 knots, seas no more than one meter.
Third, if winds are enough to pay attention to (like more than 10-12 knots), wind and tidal current directions should not be opposed when crossing the most open water, like in Chatham Sound heading up from PR, between Dundas Island and Cape Fox, or in Revillagigedo Channel up to about Mary Island. Depending on conditions, anywhere in these three areas could be challenging - wind vs current as the tide flows in and out can make seas twice as tall and much more vertical than they would be otherwise.
Sounds a little complicated, but if you're willing to wait a day or three you can usually find conditions that meet most of these criteria. On 2-3 occasions, always on the way back south, we've had to wait 5 or even 7 days . Depends somewhat on your tolerance for bouncing around. Most other places in SE AK are not as complicated to figure.
In 2017 for the first time I started using predictwind.com. It gives far more granular detailed forecasts than NOAA and Environment Canada, in more specific locations and in timing. Crossing the Dixon is a particularly good situation for it.
colbysmith
Active member
As of recent, I'm thinking of putting this trip on hold until summer of 2019. 16,000+ miles on the boat trailer this year alone, and might take it just a bit easier this coming summer. That and there may be some others heading up to Alaska in 2019 that I could join up with. Colby
I always say Do it when you can...you never know what life holds....
Only you know if that is the correct choice. You have done a lot of trips this year. But AK--is a major endeavor--more that any of the other trips. I know you are up to it...But personal choice--and a decision you don't have to make at this time...
Only you know if that is the correct choice. You have done a lot of trips this year. But AK--is a major endeavor--more that any of the other trips. I know you are up to it...But personal choice--and a decision you don't have to make at this time...
https://mightywench.blogspot.com/
This was put together to keep relatives "calm" while we were away (VERY few people from Ohio do this kind of boating and thought we were trying to commit suicide).
If you wade through all that stuff, you will see we really preferred the area south of Prince Rupert. Admittedly weather was a factor, but really the attitude of the Glacier Bay Park people and the cruise ships with their associated tours and junk stores would have ruined the experience for us no matter what the weather. I really did want to play with ice bergs, so the trip was worth it, but I seriously doubt we will go that far north again.
One other thing I cannot stress enough. This is not an area where you want to be on a schedule. Many of cruisers up there said the most dangerous thing to have on a boat was a calendar and they were right. You can count on occasionally being stuck in places for a week or more. The combination of wind and tidal currents make for extremely dangerous water in the wrong conditions. With some homework, you can easily find out where the potentially nasty stuff is.
Personally, I would recommend starting out in early May since July and Aug is when all the "special" mariners come out and anchorages become more crowded and noisy (it gets worse as you go south). Generally, the fellow cruisers early in the year are more polite, more helpful, quieter, don't throw huge wakes as much and are friendlier.
One other thing. You do not want to do any night cruising. There are too many logs (big logs and dead heads) floating around all over the place that were visible in heavy fog, but not at night.
John
This was put together to keep relatives "calm" while we were away (VERY few people from Ohio do this kind of boating and thought we were trying to commit suicide).
If you wade through all that stuff, you will see we really preferred the area south of Prince Rupert. Admittedly weather was a factor, but really the attitude of the Glacier Bay Park people and the cruise ships with their associated tours and junk stores would have ruined the experience for us no matter what the weather. I really did want to play with ice bergs, so the trip was worth it, but I seriously doubt we will go that far north again.
One other thing I cannot stress enough. This is not an area where you want to be on a schedule. Many of cruisers up there said the most dangerous thing to have on a boat was a calendar and they were right. You can count on occasionally being stuck in places for a week or more. The combination of wind and tidal currents make for extremely dangerous water in the wrong conditions. With some homework, you can easily find out where the potentially nasty stuff is.
Personally, I would recommend starting out in early May since July and Aug is when all the "special" mariners come out and anchorages become more crowded and noisy (it gets worse as you go south). Generally, the fellow cruisers early in the year are more polite, more helpful, quieter, don't throw huge wakes as much and are friendlier.
One other thing. You do not want to do any night cruising. There are too many logs (big logs and dead heads) floating around all over the place that were visible in heavy fog, but not at night.
John
colbysmith
Active member
This is definitely a trip I'm up to and want to do. Just a little timid about going it alone. Nothing says I still can't head up that way in the late spring, but if there is a possibility of joining up with some others the following summer, I can probably wait. If I do it this summer, on my own or taking the lead, I most likely will launch and work out of Skagway. I suspect if I wait until the following year, I may be joining starting at Prince Rupert. Either way, I'm good. Either year, I'd very likely spend the summer, or at least two months, with my wife flying out to join me for about a month. Thought about perhaps signing up for the Friday Harbor gathering this coming May, if one happens, but also wondering if that might make more sense in conjunction with the year I do the Alaska thing. Also, I know there is some good boating in the south half of the passage, but I'm preferring to do the northern half this time. Who knows, maybe I'll end up doing Friday Harbor this year, and do the south half of the passage then.... :? Colby
JohnC, I read your blog, and I don 't think you really gave Alaska a fair trail...It takes a lot of planning ahead to have the best experience--and one avoids the cities with cruise liners--at times when crowded..There are still many places to go in AK where most likely the only other boats you see will be fishing boats anchored up for a night.
Although BC has some great anchorages, and places to visit--above Vancouver Island, there are a lot more in AK--Also there are the Queen Charlottes. A month or so, without some prior knowledge, is a very short time to spend in AK--Colby's plan to launch as Skagway is as good as any--we launched at Prince Rupert for our C Dory time in AK, but the 4 summers we spent there in the Cal 46, (6 to 7 knot boat) necessitated our leaving Sequim in late April, and returning in mid October.
Although BC has some great anchorages, and places to visit--above Vancouver Island, there are a lot more in AK--Also there are the Queen Charlottes. A month or so, without some prior knowledge, is a very short time to spend in AK--Colby's plan to launch as Skagway is as good as any--we launched at Prince Rupert for our C Dory time in AK, but the 4 summers we spent there in the Cal 46, (6 to 7 knot boat) necessitated our leaving Sequim in late April, and returning in mid October.
journey on
New member
Well, we went to Alaska in 1998 ( or there abouts) in a sailboat. What we found is that you left the hassle behind at the north end of Vancouver Isle. Above that, 90% of the boats and people were cruisers. And the other 10% lived there the year around and were happy to see new faces. Such as the minister who gave us a tour of the Lutheran Church's indoor ice rink in Petersburgh. Or the guy at the gas dock in Juneau who saw our Manhattan Beach documentation, told us he grew up in Trona (both in SoCal) and got the barge ahead of us to move so we could get diesel first. A whole lot of good connections. Repeat that a 100 times and the trip was worthwhile for the people we met.
Also, there are NO big cities north of Vancouver Isle. We only went to Juneau, the capitol of Alaska and it was only two streets wide. Prince Rupert was bigger but not by much. So you're not going to get the BIG CITY mentality there. OK, a few of the cruisers. Mostly, the people are easy to get along with and glad to meet anybody new. As long as you're decent. Hard for me, easy for Judy.
Boris
Also, there are NO big cities north of Vancouver Isle. We only went to Juneau, the capitol of Alaska and it was only two streets wide. Prince Rupert was bigger but not by much. So you're not going to get the BIG CITY mentality there. OK, a few of the cruisers. Mostly, the people are easy to get along with and glad to meet anybody new. As long as you're decent. Hard for me, easy for Judy.
Boris
I pulled some population numbers from a Southeast Alaska website a few years ago. Juneau was around 32,000. Ketchikan 14K. Sitka 9-10K. Total for SE AK only about 65-70K.
Midway up Vancouver Island, Campbell River is about 35K. Prince Rupert is 12-15K. All the rest between CR and the top of SE AK are much smaller.
More critters than people - a good thing!
Midway up Vancouver Island, Campbell River is about 35K. Prince Rupert is 12-15K. All the rest between CR and the top of SE AK are much smaller.
More critters than people - a good thing!
journey on":27hnctgf said:
I sure agree about the people! Also a few C Brats live up there and they make great points of contact!
It is easy to get a distorted view of the relative size of Juneau vs Prince Rupert when only seeing it from the water. But Juneau stretches many miles along the waterfront, as well as into the valley, and across the bay from the downtown area.
We always used "Rent a wreck" (and some really were) in Juneau to go shopping, since it was often a major supply port for our 4 months in AK each summer in the 90's--and even when we visited there a few years ago in the C Dory 25. Also bus service in the towns can be very helpful. (Never tried Uber)
Prince Rupert also goes a way back up the hill, and over the hill to the valley behind--but you see it all pretty much from the water. Not so for Juneau.
Of course if there are 6 large cruise ships in the harbor at Juneau. That could double the population--I believe that there are now 4 large cruise ship docks, 2 smaller docks and room for at least another two to anchor...The first ones arrived May 1 this year, there were over one million passengers who spent over 187 million dollars in Juneau... We usually stayed at Auke Bay, but one night had permission to tie up with the small cruise ships in down town, since our guests were boarding one of the 100 passenger cruise ships that evening. Look at the Cruise Ship Agency schedule to find a day when there is only one or two cruise ships in town (rare).
For Glacier Bay, there are about 13 advanced notice (60 days out) and 12 short notice (48 hours out) permits. We had our advanced permit extended the last day for another 7 days. It can change each year-so check it out. Even with the cruise ships there are great places to stay, and we enjoyed 2 weeks in the bay.
Pack Creek and Annan Creek are other reservation only bear viewing areas--and we think well worth the trouble to obtain.
journey on
New member
We spent some time in Juneau: walked to the Mendenhal Glacier (where we saw fish spawn,) took the side trip to Glacier Bay, used the bus system and visited the waterfront when the cruise ships docked.
From thataway:
"over one million passengers who spent over 187 million dollars in Juneau"
And that's true, but we talked with a couple of high-end merchants, who with the last cruise ship would pack up and go to California for the other 9 mos. So it may be spent in Juneau but not all stays there.
As a counterpoint, went to a local bar and the barmaid introduced us to the crew members off those ships, with every other of her words a swear word. Gave the bar a little colour which was intended.
And on the way to Juneau, visited Meyers Chuck, across from Thorne Bay, where we learned what a "bow picker" was. Went around Ketchican via the Behm Canal, where we saw a bear swimming between islands and met a couple who had (so they claimed) sailed up from New Zealand spent a winter in Alaska and now would sail back. They were anchored in some small bay way out, tougher than we were. Visited Craig, where we saw Hilton's yacht where we saw only the crew, none over 20 (from our view) and 1/2 male, 1/2 female. Judy got me out of there.
It was a great trip and the only way is to take the whole summer, go up one way and down another. Or you'd miss Port Alexander where the fish buyer was, or Tenakee Springs, where after 2 days we fueled with the trawlers. They took 2000 gal, we took 15.
Boris
From thataway:
"over one million passengers who spent over 187 million dollars in Juneau"
And that's true, but we talked with a couple of high-end merchants, who with the last cruise ship would pack up and go to California for the other 9 mos. So it may be spent in Juneau but not all stays there.
As a counterpoint, went to a local bar and the barmaid introduced us to the crew members off those ships, with every other of her words a swear word. Gave the bar a little colour which was intended.
And on the way to Juneau, visited Meyers Chuck, across from Thorne Bay, where we learned what a "bow picker" was. Went around Ketchican via the Behm Canal, where we saw a bear swimming between islands and met a couple who had (so they claimed) sailed up from New Zealand spent a winter in Alaska and now would sail back. They were anchored in some small bay way out, tougher than we were. Visited Craig, where we saw Hilton's yacht where we saw only the crew, none over 20 (from our view) and 1/2 male, 1/2 female. Judy got me out of there.
It was a great trip and the only way is to take the whole summer, go up one way and down another. Or you'd miss Port Alexander where the fish buyer was, or Tenakee Springs, where after 2 days we fueled with the trawlers. They took 2000 gal, we took 15.
Boris
Marco Flamingo
Active member
colbysmith":axchpkt8 said:
Time for me to start planning. I've thought about "the south half" for quite awhile. For me, the ferry from Anacortes to Victoria, then Port Hardy to Shearwater (Bella Bella) is really tempting. Expensive, yes, but in three leisurely days I could be in some of the most remote and most protected areas in the inside passage. Rounding Cape Caution on a 300' ferry vs. in a 16' dory? And if I really wanted a trailer experience, I could go on to Bella Coola and drive back, but again the ferry sounds pretty good.
Fiordland and the Hakai Conservancy. More than enough to fill up a month.
Mark
Marco Flamingo":2horc73b said:
Mark,
If you are thinking ferry use to get to Vancouver Island, think going from Tsawassen to Duke Point (Nanaimo) then drive north to Pt Hardy. I have done that trip 3 times now and it is more direct, less $$$ and quicker than the Anacortes to Victoria route. Pick the right days and the BC Ferry has special pricing, down to about half price. AND, you are right about being into some desolate areas in 3 days, and not have to go around Cape Caution on your own boat.
I have been up around the N end of Vancouver Island, into the Broughtons, mostly the northern parts, and up every inlet there and found a fair share of remoteness there. Yes there are all the popular places, but you don't have to go there, and I have been out for a week at a time without seeing another boat. No, it is not week after week and I haven't seen any icebergy bits, but I still had a great boat ride.
I would not be able to even think about a trip north for 2018, but it is not off my radar. 2019 might be a possibility, and since I would be single handing, I would prefer to link up with another boat too. So, Colby, if 2019 works out for you, I maybe thinking along that line too.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
I have done the Inside Passage only in a commercial vessel.
With my experience then, I'd say if I did the same in a small boat,
my best advice would be the same as going anywhere new and
potentially hazardous:
1. Going boating is optional. Returning home is mandatory.
2. Do your homework. Prepare.
3. Commit to diligence.
4. Always wait for weather.
5. Always have a backup plan.
Good luck and enjoy! It is glorious topography.
Aye.
With my experience then, I'd say if I did the same in a small boat,
my best advice would be the same as going anywhere new and
potentially hazardous:
1. Going boating is optional. Returning home is mandatory.
2. Do your homework. Prepare.
3. Commit to diligence.
4. Always wait for weather.
5. Always have a backup plan.
Good luck and enjoy! It is glorious topography.
Aye.
colbysmith
Active member
Pretty much just in the wait and see mode at this point. I have all the charting I need, and for now, the boat and trailer are as prepared as they could ever be. However, I keep both in top shape, so can really take them anywhere at a moments notice. 
I know some like the independence of not traveling with others, and that's ok for them. Personally I enjoy traveling with just a few other boats, as the safety in numbers, and with only a few boats, finding anchorages or dock space is a bit easier. While this past summer was a busy one and I'm almost looking forward to a little slower pace, I'm not getting any younger. Alaska in my own boat is on my bucket list, and if not this summer, hopefully the following summer. IE, if someone else ended up heading north this summer, and didn't mind another tagging along, I'd still seriously reconsider going ahead with my plans for this coming year. If it doesn't pan out this summer, then I think I'd make my own solid plans for summer 2019, and see what falls out. Colby
I know some like the independence of not traveling with others, and that's ok for them. Personally I enjoy traveling with just a few other boats, as the safety in numbers, and with only a few boats, finding anchorages or dock space is a bit easier. While this past summer was a busy one and I'm almost looking forward to a little slower pace, I'm not getting any younger. Alaska in my own boat is on my bucket list, and if not this summer, hopefully the following summer. IE, if someone else ended up heading north this summer, and didn't mind another tagging along, I'd still seriously reconsider going ahead with my plans for this coming year. If it doesn't pan out this summer, then I think I'd make my own solid plans for summer 2019, and see what falls out. Colby