19' or 22' C-Dory

Thanks for the great info-I guess its fair to say that a CD will generally be as happy or happier as any comparable size boat when things get rough and thats all I can ask for. If in-water storage wasn't expensive & hard to find in Florida, it would be a 22' but I'm trailering so a 19' will have to do. I am certain it will meet our needs. After all, there is no perfect boat-every one is a compromise.

One think I am curious about is how they perform at top speed on dead smooth water. With a 90HP at 35 mph will I get a comfortable ride? I'm not a speed demon but there will be times when I'd like to "open her up" and get to the fishing ground ASAP.

Appreciate any input!
 
I remeber that c-dory was making a 22ft sport. It was a 22 with no galley and more seating and no rear bulkhead. saw one at the show last year. that maybe a good one for you. I cant find it on the c-dory factor site so maybe they dropped the line but I know I saw it.
 
Berado

Forget the 35 mph. It won't be fun. Think more like 15 to 20 in safe conditions. C brats talk about running faster, but in the pond you will be more comfortable going slow.

As for trailering, my 22 is so light that I think a 4 cyl car could do it. I do tow with a 3/4 ton van and I hardly notice it back there compared to other similar sized boats I have owned. The difference other than length should not be that great. There is more room on the 22. I have the angler which may be lighter than the cruiser.

1tuberider
 
What happens at top speed on dead flat water? Do they stay on plane or porpoise uncontrollable? Does the bow nose down and plow? Just curious what happens?

Thanks!
 
Depends on the load, all are unique. The heavier it is the more stable it is. You'll get 36 on the 19. I can push that with the 22.

As others have said, doubtful you'll run there. It's just not that kind of boat.
 
We had a few days this past summer where it was calm and flat. Our CD-22 just flew on top the water with no porpoising at all, it tracked like on rails and we were obviously planing. That's the beauty of C-Dory's, because of the hull design and weight, these baby's get up on plane at relatively low speeds, usually around 10 knots. At WOT, we were at 30 mph with a new Suzuki 90hp 4-stroke. We were heavily loaded and do have a Permatrim hydrofoil which helps greatly in getting the bow down when needed and I feel makes the boat a lot less squirrely at high speeds. In fact, at 30 mph, the boat didn't feel squirrely at all as compared to before I installed the Permatrim. I'm sure we could go a little faster if I played with the prop pitch or had a lighter load but we are at the lower end of our RPM range at WOT and 30 mph is plenty fast for us. It's not that common to have calm, flat smooth water up here in Puget Sound and the San Juans so we don't usually go that fast. We just enjoy the beautiful scenery at 15-20 knots. Hope this helps.
 
I find that the only problem with going that fast of flat water is turning. these boat are really flat in the back and if you turn to fast at speed it will slide out from under you and then dig in on the out side of the turn. this causes the boat to roll to the out side of the turn hard. Not a safe manuver. I have tried it just to see where the limits are. Dont do it with the saftey committe on board ( wife). The trim tabs help and I think that the permitrim would really help but have not bought one yet. I still have the sst hydrofoil that came with the boat but really hate it. It makes the problem worse IMHO. ( which never it) . I like taking the kid and his freinds to the lake for tubing,need to do more of it, and I really like knocking them off so I run my boat a little harderat full speed then most.
 
When I am not overloaded, I can do 34 to 35 mph on flat water. However, to me it feels like the boat design is reaching its limit on speed. I would not like to run any distance at this speed. At 27 to 28 mph, the comfort level is greatly increased and I feel comfortable maintaining this speed as long as the water is relatively flat. In choppy water, 19 to 20 mph is quite comfortable and easy to maintain. In snotty conditions, 14 to 15 mph is OK.

Tom – I think the permitrim would make a big difference on the handling characteristics of your boat. They are so easy to make and with your abilities, you should not have any trouble doing it.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave, how you getting that much speed out of your boat? My 16 has to really work to get 30. It has a 11.4X12 3-blade oem prop that will wind out past 6000. I have a 11X13 prop that I had been using but could only get 5600, and no more speed so I put the old one back on. I can't be any heavier than you are, other than I sometimes carry up to 12 gallons of gas.
 
Plenty fast for me. If the water is calm and I could comfortably cruise at 20 or 25 , I'm happy. At least I know if it gets rough, I can slow down and still make it to port without getting our brains shook loose
 
lloyds":1d232xdd said:
Dave, how you getting that much speed out of your boat? My 16 has to really work to get 30. It has a 11.4X12 3-blade oem prop that will wind out past 6000. I have a 11X13 prop that I had been using but could only get 5600, and no more speed so I put the old one back on. I can't be any heavier than you are, other than I sometimes carry up to 12 gallons of gas.
Click to expand...
Lloyd – I think I am heavier than you are most of the time. I usually have 21-gallons of gas, a generator, 12v cooler, five gallons or more of water plus much other gear. Loaded as such I can get 28 knots or about 32 mph.

At the Sequim CBGT, I was alone without extra gas, generator and less gear. There I could just hit 30 knots or 34 - 35 mph. My prop is an aluminum C 3x11.1x13. I assume you have the 50HP Honda also, so the only difference would be the permitrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permitrim, I could not reach the speeds I do.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Greetings!

My understanding is that the 19' is basically the same hull form as the 22' but shortened by 3'. My general sense of boat design immediately says to go with the 22 if the budget allows. Decreasing the running surface on the same hull would tend to decrease overall hull efficiency and could lead to porpoising, poor tracking, balance issues, etc. I don't think you'd really save much fuel either, but I have no data to back this up. Best wishes to you whatever you decide. Mike.
 
Hi Dave,

You said "the only difference would be the permatrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permatrim, I could not reach the speeds I do."

I am very curious about this. With my 22 when I added the permatrim may top speed was reduced by a few knts. Also trimming the motor up or down does not seem to make any difference in the speed.

I have found that trimming the tabs all the way down does increase speed. I was thinking of taking the permatrim off and putting the original plastic thing back on for comparison.

What do you do to tweak the permatrim to get more speed?

Steve
 
randykolchuk
I would appreaciate if you would post your comparison of the Parker and C Dory. Both well respected boats.

We considered 30 as the top speed for our 22 C Dory--but it was always fairly well loaded. The boats "dance around" a little bit at higher speeds, but are stable.

Now as for stable at higher speeds--the TC 's do that very well. We run at 25 to 30 knots most of the time and can get up into the 40's. But don't look at any of the C Dories as "go fast boats".
 
seabran":2pzp0m0a said:
Hi Dave,

You said "the only difference would be the permatrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permatrim, I could not reach the speeds I do."

I am very curious about this. With my 22 when I added the permatrim may top speed was reduced by a few knts. Also trimming the motor up or down does not seem to make any difference in the speed.

I have found that trimming the tabs all the way down does increase speed. I was thinking of taking the permatrim off and putting the original plastic thing back on for comparison.

What do you do to tweak the permatrim to get more speed?

Steve
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Steve – as my speed increases I have to give the engine a little more bow down trim to keep it from floating on me. Then as I reach the maximum speed at that attitude, I start rising the bow ever so slightly, then waiting for a half minute or so for my speed to increase. Once the boat and speed has stabilized I trim for a little more bow up attitude. There is never an immediate change in the boats speed or handling because the change is so slight. It may take a half minute or more to notice a change. I keep doing this until I reach a point where any more bow up attitude will cause the bow to start floating. If I hit that point, I go back down and start back up until I get back to the point just before the bow starts floating. Sometimes you will not notice an increase in the indicated speed from one setting to the next but will notice a slight difference in RPM. This is because you gained less than 1 mph.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave, thanks for the additional explanation of the use of the Permatrim. Guess I am going to have to keep experimenting. I am apparently running much lighter than you but do not get that much speed. Another reason to pray for spring, get to play with the trim.
 
westward":ipnvobhz said:
Greetings!

My understanding is that the 19' is basically the same hull form as the 22' but shortened by 3'. My general sense of boat design immediately says to go with the 22 if the budget allows. Decreasing the running surface on the same hull would tend to decrease overall hull efficiency and could lead to porpoising, poor tracking, balance issues, etc.
Click to expand...

I've had both...started with the 19, moved up to 22. There are certainly differences in how people rig their boats, but the following are my experiences with the two boats powered essentially the same - a single + small kicker.

There is no noticeable difference in porpoising, tracking or balance between to the two boats, in my experience - assuming proper engine trim and/or trim tab positioning.

There is a difference in efficiency, depending on the situation. The transition from displacement to planing happens more quickly on the 22, and it happens at a slightly lower speed. As such, I find the 22 a more comfortable and better handling boat when things are "medium sloppy" - that is, when the chop keeps you in the 8-10MPH range, and you're on/off the throttle frequently.

In very good or very nasty waters, there is very little difference in how the two boats handle. I got stuck in SF Bay on my way back to Berkeley one afternoon, in some very ugly stuff. Likewise, I recently crossed Juan de Puka in equally nasty conditions in the 22. The 22 was less stressful, but only because of the reduced noise due to the enclosed cabin...neither boat felt any more seaworthy than the other, they both handled things admirably.

In general, the 19 is more sensitive to weight aft than the 22. It's fairly well accepted now, that keeping things light back there makes a significant difference. Were I to rig one again, I'd get a light single, no kicker, and keep the minimum safe amount of fuel on board necessary for the trip.

In general, I like the 22 better. However, insofar as fishing goes, the 19 has some very nice features. The gunnels are much wider - makes for a much nicer platform upon which to mount things, and it's much more comfortable to rest your butt on. The sides under the gunnels are enclosed with flotation, but if you don't mind giving up a minor amount of it, you can mount tackle boxes in there - check out the photos at the bottom of this page for examples. Access from the helm to your rods is much nicer in the 19 - you can be on them in 2 seconds, with no need to step through a doorway. Even though the cockpit size is pretty similar between a 22 Cruiser and a 19 Angler, it's more functional on the 19 given the open cabin.

Can't go wrong with either...just pick the one that suits your needs best.
 
Well, the only real similarities in the C-Dory and Parker 2120 are that both have a pilot house and outboard power. Mind you, I owned the C-Dory 25, and it was more of a cruiser, verses the fishing aspects of the Parker. I did most of my boating on the open waters of Lake Erie. If you tried to go to fast in the Dory, you were quickly reminded that it is a low speed planing vessel. The C-Dory cabin would shake if I took on a head sea over 11 or 12 knots, this was not so in the Parker. However, there was nothing nicer than a calm evening crossing Erie at 14 knots. I would strongly recommend autopilot for any long distance cruising. I wish I would have had a single 125 or 150 on the C-Dory, because the twin engines could never really be opened up unless it was very calm. It was nice having the insurance, but I would have been happy with one main and a kicker. If you want a cruiser, I say go with the Dory, but if you are running 15-30 miles out to fish, and want to make time, the Parker is the way to go. Both vessels were stable while fishing, and rode well in beam and following seas. I don't own the C-Dory anymore, but the website is great.
p.s. The Dory had a much nicer door and I liked the bare cabin walls. The Parker would get a few more points for wiring, housing of outboard cables, and transom design (the Parker had a metal backing Plate inside the splash well)
 
Thanks for the info Dave.

I don't think my boat acts the same but I will try your method next time out.

With the Permatrim if I trim up about 3/4 up my boat will start porpoissing - maybe the same as your floating. I have to trim back down to get it to stop. This did not happen with the original whale tail.

Steve
 
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