19' c-dory
- Thread starter blackfish
- Start date
Hee's a look at the StingRay XrIII for reference if you, like me, have never seen one:
IMHO, the thing that makes the Permatrim more effective than some of the other hydrofoils is it 's longer fore-aft length and turned down side fins. The XrIII has some of the longer style aft length, and somewhat downturned fins, as far as I can tell from the photos.
I'd be sure to check the tightness of the attachment system regularly, there's a lot of force and stress on these hydrofoils. The no-drill feature would be nice and simple for installation, however.
Intrestingly, they're on clerance sale at WalMart for $90 right now, instead of the regular $140-$150 at most marine stores, although, it says they're not available on line or in stores, so you'd have to call them up and see if you can order or find one in stock somehow.
Here's a search for the XrIII at various sources to shop for prices and to check out product reviews:
StingRay XrIII
Here's a Permatrim photo for reference. (It's kind of the Gold Standard around here for hydrofoils.)
Permatrim information source:
Permatrim USA (Information and ordering) Questions? Call 1-800-213-3323, and ask for Andy.
Joe. :teeth :thup
IMHO, the thing that makes the Permatrim more effective than some of the other hydrofoils is it 's longer fore-aft length and turned down side fins. The XrIII has some of the longer style aft length, and somewhat downturned fins, as far as I can tell from the photos.
I'd be sure to check the tightness of the attachment system regularly, there's a lot of force and stress on these hydrofoils. The no-drill feature would be nice and simple for installation, however.
Intrestingly, they're on clerance sale at WalMart for $90 right now, instead of the regular $140-$150 at most marine stores, although, it says they're not available on line or in stores, so you'd have to call them up and see if you can order or find one in stock somehow.
Here's a search for the XrIII at various sources to shop for prices and to check out product reviews:
StingRay XrIII
Here's a Permatrim photo for reference. (It's kind of the Gold Standard around here for hydrofoils.)
Permatrim information source:
Permatrim USA (Information and ordering) Questions? Call 1-800-213-3323, and ask for Andy.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Thanks for the info Joe, the Stingray is quite a big stabilizer all around. It has some good fore and aft plane and the profile is a curve side to side.
it's advertised as directing the prop thrust aft and I noticed quite a reduction in wake size. Will keep watching it for tightness for sure.
George
it's advertised as directing the prop thrust aft and I noticed quite a reduction in wake size. Will keep watching it for tightness for sure.
George
If you add the Stingray 111 check your prop clearance on your anode before you fire it up. Mine just hit the anode (lucky I noticed it before I ran it) and
I had to take a little off the anode. I put 132 hrs on the boat since installing it and it's still tight.
Thanks Robbi,
I tried out your suicide nob. It works great.
I had to take a little off the anode. I put 132 hrs on the boat since installing it and it's still tight.
Thanks Robbi,
I tried out your suicide nob. It works great.
geebee2":1v25ro9y said:
Glenn-
I once had a prop that had less than 3/4" clearance between the prop and the trim tab/anode.
The close proximity made for a vibration and low speeds when the water off the tip of the propeller hit the trim tab. Felt like the prop was imbalanced or bent.
If you ntice anything like that, you may have a similar condition.
It may depend on the angle the trim tab is set at in relation to the prop's jet stream, too.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Hhhmmm... now I am wondering if I should move ahead with the Doels or not. I hate to drill the two holes per side they require, come to the same conclusion you did, decide to move to the Permatrim only to discover I need to drill four holes per side because the "Doel" holes don't line up for the Permatrim.
Thanks for the note. I've bought them, but I can hold off on the install to hear from you on the hole alignment.
Thanks for the note. I've bought them, but I can hold off on the install to hear from you on the hole alignment.
I put a Stingray on my 19 a few years back, before discovering the Permatrim. It's design is similar to the Doel fins I saw - both are wider and shorter than the Permatrim.
The Permatrim was superior in every way. The added length, gave it more lift, with less engine tilt. As others have mentioned, the narrower profile is what really makes the difference. The wider fins seem to fight the relatively flat bottom hull of a C-Dory when turning, particularly those like the Stingray that have significant arc side to side. With the Stingray installed, the back end always felt like it was on ice...I'd have to crank extra hard to make the boat turn, and even then, it was always an odd and almost uneasy feeling, particularly at slightly higher speeds.
The Permatrim actually enhanced handling, in addition to adding lift. Turns were instant and controlled, at any speed.
We've seen very few folks here unhappy with the Permatrim on 19's and 22's, and countless reports of greatly enhanced performance. The lone issue, seems to be slightly reduced top end on many installs...but who cares if a C-Dory only hits 27-28 instead of 30?
If a fin is necessary, I'd not bother to look elsewhere.
On edit...the Stingray I installed was the older version, not the newer one mentioned by a few here.
The Permatrim was superior in every way. The added length, gave it more lift, with less engine tilt. As others have mentioned, the narrower profile is what really makes the difference. The wider fins seem to fight the relatively flat bottom hull of a C-Dory when turning, particularly those like the Stingray that have significant arc side to side. With the Stingray installed, the back end always felt like it was on ice...I'd have to crank extra hard to make the boat turn, and even then, it was always an odd and almost uneasy feeling, particularly at slightly higher speeds.
The Permatrim actually enhanced handling, in addition to adding lift. Turns were instant and controlled, at any speed.
We've seen very few folks here unhappy with the Permatrim on 19's and 22's, and countless reports of greatly enhanced performance. The lone issue, seems to be slightly reduced top end on many installs...but who cares if a C-Dory only hits 27-28 instead of 30?
If a fin is necessary, I'd not bother to look elsewhere.
On edit...the Stingray I installed was the older version, not the newer one mentioned by a few here.
Da Nag":mu83auf5 said:
FOR SALE: One set of Doel Fins, unopened and new in its package. Reasonably priced.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'd rather tuck my tail under my swim platform than drill useless holes.
WANTED: One Permatrim Hydrofoil to fit Yamaha 90. Contact the guy in NC standing on his swim platform with a limp drill. :?
I had some more fun today, got into the ocean off Nanaimo into some chop and large ferry wakes and had a blast. In the harbour in flat water I saw 27.8 mph on the gps at 5200 which is wot, with the handling good. Once out in the chop I found a speed of 18-20 really nice and easy at around 3600 rpm. The trim was moved from right on the stops to about 3 and best spot was right about 2 for a flat smooth ride.
What a fun boat and easy to get on and off the trailer solo. Starting to get the hang of the boat, sure get lots of looks from other folks.
What a fun boat and easy to get on and off the trailer solo. Starting to get the hang of the boat, sure get lots of looks from other folks.
I finished the Permatrim install on my Honda 90 and got out on the lake over the weekend for a tryout. It seems to improve control and handling at all speeds and reduces the "porpoiseing" that that my 19' Angler likes to do. Unfortunately, I still have to trim the engine right down on the stops or close to it to get the full benefit. The engine is obviously working hard when trimmed this way as evidenced by the increased boat speed and rpms when trimmed up a bit. I used my Bennett trim tabs mainly for left/ right trim. Next time out, I'm going to try a little more trim tab and a little less motor trim....running with the motor trimmed down against the stops feels I'm dragging an anchor...it seems so inefficient.
Steve Grover
New member
Gee..... :? I run the Honda 90 on my 19 with the Permatrim. I also run a prop that is smaller than the sea level prop. My prop size is D3X13.5X15R. :roll:
My sta. trim tab doesn't work so my tabs are at a slightly down position. I have several degrees of motor position to adjust the bow highth at various speeds and RPM's. I run this prop at sea level and every alt. between sea level and 6500 ft. I really can't imagine better performance from my 19.
I can trim out at about 5200- 5400 RPM's at GPS speed over the ground 25-28 at 6500 ft. At sea level the dory is slightly faster and I can reach a little more RPM's. I run the same prop.
I usually cruise at 4000 RPM's which is about 18-21.
I think you might find better all around performance if you change your prop. also, move weight forward and don't carry more fuel than you need. I did raise the driver's chairs by 4" for better visability. :roll:
Just my $.02 worth.
My sta. trim tab doesn't work so my tabs are at a slightly down position. I have several degrees of motor position to adjust the bow highth at various speeds and RPM's. I run this prop at sea level and every alt. between sea level and 6500 ft. I really can't imagine better performance from my 19.
I can trim out at about 5200- 5400 RPM's at GPS speed over the ground 25-28 at 6500 ft. At sea level the dory is slightly faster and I can reach a little more RPM's. I run the same prop.I usually cruise at 4000 RPM's which is about 18-21.
I think you might find better all around performance if you change your prop. also, move weight forward and don't carry more fuel than you need. I did raise the driver's chairs by 4" for better visability. :roll:
Just my $.02 worth.
Steve Grover
New member
No...I don't think you missed anything. Most suppliers of marine stuff carry a pedestal which fits on the seat swivel (on the bottom of the chair) and the bracket to the boat. Westmarine part #6806996. 7" was too tall for me. Hit my head on top of the cabin so I cut out 3" of the 7. Welded it together and Bingo 
I can see over the bow and have much better visability. I'm sure there are other ways to do it but this worked for me. :roll:
I can see over the bow and have much better visability. I'm sure there are other ways to do it but this worked for me. :roll:Thanks for sharing the pix! Wow! You've pretty much answered a bunch of projects I've been mulling over. Love the seat raisers! And the roof rack is perfect. On our 19 storage is a bit of a challenge... especially with a kayak of two.
Do the seats still swivel? I can swivel mine just a bit right now, but my wife loves to swivel hers all the way around. May build one for my side and leave hers alone.
Do the seats still swivel? I can swivel mine just a bit right now, but my wife loves to swivel hers all the way around. May build one for my side and leave hers alone.
tsargent
Yeah the seats still swivel but only 90 degrees. I used the original hardware for the seats. They can still be moved forward and back. The two small drawers are handy for small loose objects, pencils ,dividers, silverware etc. and all the cooking utensils go behind one seat with the basic food behind the other. I found the hinges for the foldup tables in the RV supply store. All in all it works out pretty good for short overnight trips. You do give up the extra seating though. The storage units weighed about 22lbs each.
The roof rack is made from 3/4" electrical conduit cleaned polished and sealed and has stood up very well now in it's second season. Cheap too.
How are you caring your kayaks?
Yeah the seats still swivel but only 90 degrees. I used the original hardware for the seats. They can still be moved forward and back. The two small drawers are handy for small loose objects, pencils ,dividers, silverware etc. and all the cooking utensils go behind one seat with the basic food behind the other. I found the hinges for the foldup tables in the RV supply store. All in all it works out pretty good for short overnight trips. You do give up the extra seating though. The storage units weighed about 22lbs each.
The roof rack is made from 3/4" electrical conduit cleaned polished and sealed and has stood up very well now in it's second season. Cheap too.
How are you caring your kayaks?