Dene, if I'm not mistaken Trailer Boats magazine did an article about quadrasteer a couple/few years ago. (Perhaps you can locate that article). Obviously, the key to maneuvering is to not situate a rig in a place where it becomes a challenge. Years ago I towed a 29 foot travel trailer behind my 1 ton 6X6 flatbead truck. Before I'd enter a campground, I'd park out somewhere and walk through the area to determine the accessability for my unit. Not easy getting around with large rigs in tight areas but pre-planning is key.....even in a Wal Mart parking lot, (someone is bound to try to park in front and behind you so you can't move out if they can find a way to do it).
1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton
- Thread starter Dene
- Start date
My understanding, is that the quadrasteer worked well, but that the number of sales did not justify continuing it as an option vs the cost of production. It certainly increased the complexity of the vehicle.
Not a lot of these with the 6.0 listed on Truck Trader, it would seem if you found a good one, to go for it!
DaveS--the C Dory 25 on the trailer is about 34 feet--I found some real challenges in campgrounds when towing it last summer with my 30 foot Class A motor home--backing was one of the least of the challenges. Making sharp turns was a challenge, but it was due to the over all length, not just the turning radius of the RV.
Not a lot of these with the 6.0 listed on Truck Trader, it would seem if you found a good one, to go for it!
DaveS--the C Dory 25 on the trailer is about 34 feet--I found some real challenges in campgrounds when towing it last summer with my 30 foot Class A motor home--backing was one of the least of the challenges. Making sharp turns was a challenge, but it was due to the over all length, not just the turning radius of the RV.
Based on the advice of y'all, I bought a red 2002 GMC Sierra 2005 SLT with crew cab and short bed. Truck has all the goodies, leather included, custom wheels, on-star, etc. One owner who bought a newer Sierra with diesel. Has canopy and bed slider. Perfect condition. 92k miles. Paid $9500. I plan on selling the canopy.
I'm looking forward to trailering the Campion where before I dreaded it.
Next/last toy on the horizon is a Palomino pop up truck camper.
Anybody need a nice '02 Explorer, Eddie Bauer and/or a class B+ RV?
-Greg
I'm looking forward to trailering the Campion where before I dreaded it.
Next/last toy on the horizon is a Palomino pop up truck camper.
Anybody need a nice '02 Explorer, Eddie Bauer and/or a class B+ RV?
-Greg
How are the new c-1500 and f150 doing against the older 3/4 ton trucks What kind of mpg does the newer 1/2 tons get compared to lets say a C-2500 with diesel ? I know Jim B (wild blue)loves his Chevy with the duramax and Jeff (c-pearl)loves his f-250 with his diesel Just wondering is the diesel really worth the extra money when towing lets say 5000lb CC-23 I'm looking at Trucks and SUV's .The newer 1/2 tons can get up to 22mpg is that realistic or just smoke and mirrors . What kind of real mpg figures are we getting Lets hear from all you Tahoe ,Chevy, Dodge,Durango, Ford Expedition ,Tundra old and new owners and anyone else with Suv or Trucks that can pull 5000lb -5500lb
I've been pulling it with a Honda Pilot 4whl drive (4500lb) rating It tows it fine in fl. It gets about 15-17mpg in the city about 20-22 on highway ,About 12 mpg towing. I want a little bit bigger tow rating .I also have been looking at Tacoma's and Pathfinder style of vehicles . Loree wants a SUV I am still looking at both TRucks and SUV's
I've been pulling it with a Honda Pilot 4whl drive (4500lb) rating It tows it fine in fl. It gets about 15-17mpg in the city about 20-22 on highway ,About 12 mpg towing. I want a little bit bigger tow rating .I also have been looking at Tacoma's and Pathfinder style of vehicles . Loree wants a SUV I am still looking at both TRucks and SUV's
Hi Jim,
Yes, I really like Big Red, our GMC Sierra 2500 HD with Duramax and the Allison transmission. It might be a bit of overkill for towing a CC-23, but there is that old saying, "You can never have too much truck." :wink: I LOVE the diesel. It tows the CD-25 (about 8700 pounds loaded on the trailer) great. We get 18+ mpg not towing, about 13 towing the boat, about 11 towing the 5th wheel.
I had never owned a pick up before Big Red; plenty of full size SUVs and vans. We have been very impressed with the ride, quiet, and road manners of our GMC. This may be the vehicle we keep "until the wheels fall off." It has been a big part of being able to haul our boat everywhere we've wanted to go. And, it is our daily driver.
Before Big Red, we had a Tahoe, another vehicle that I really enjoyed. It towed our Corsair trimaran fine (about 5,000 pounds loaded on the trailer), but we certainly knew it was back there. The best mileage we ever saw with that was 18 mpg... with a heck of a tailwind... not towing. Most of the time, it was around 14-15 mpg. 10 or less towing.
Good luck with your search.
Best wishes,
Jim
Yes, I really like Big Red, our GMC Sierra 2500 HD with Duramax and the Allison transmission. It might be a bit of overkill for towing a CC-23, but there is that old saying, "You can never have too much truck." :wink: I LOVE the diesel. It tows the CD-25 (about 8700 pounds loaded on the trailer) great. We get 18+ mpg not towing, about 13 towing the boat, about 11 towing the 5th wheel.
I had never owned a pick up before Big Red; plenty of full size SUVs and vans. We have been very impressed with the ride, quiet, and road manners of our GMC. This may be the vehicle we keep "until the wheels fall off." It has been a big part of being able to haul our boat everywhere we've wanted to go. And, it is our daily driver.
Before Big Red, we had a Tahoe, another vehicle that I really enjoyed. It towed our Corsair trimaran fine (about 5,000 pounds loaded on the trailer), but we certainly knew it was back there. The best mileage we ever saw with that was 18 mpg... with a heck of a tailwind... not towing. Most of the time, it was around 14-15 mpg. 10 or less towing.
Good luck with your search.
Best wishes,
Jim
2001 f150, 5.4 engine, 4x4 extended cab, 8,300 tow rating
18mpg loafing down the road empty
9-12 mpg towing
Had a 93 Landcruiser, straight 6 engine, 5,000 tow rating that towed the boat well and returned about the same mileage.
use caution when truck shopping. The so called tonnage rating of trucks means very little. There are half ton trucks that do return about 22mpg but in their high mpg form don't allow much for hauling or towing capacity. There are also 1/2 t rigs that are capable of towing and hauling more than many of the older 3/4 ton trucks. A properly equipped 1/2 ton will tow your boat with no problems.
It looks to me like with the new emissions requirements on diesel engines, the difference in mileage between the gas and diesel engines is reduced making it durn hard to justify the extra cost for the occasional tow.
It's hard to cheat physics, to get a rig that is designed to haul much of a load, it's going to be consuming more fuel
things to look for-
tow package, usually includes much more than a trailer hitch, some will have a heavier duty transmission, transmission cooler and stouter suspension
rear axle ratio, the higher the number the more you can tow but the worse mpg you'll get.....a 4:10 will tow, a 3:53 will return better mpg.....this is one means used to advertise those trucks that get the good mileage, they're geared to be just idling down the freeway but can't tow squat
GCVW, gross combined vehicle weight, that determines how much you can load up on old Betsy after subtracting the weight of the vehicle itself.
rigs...arg, I think my next truck will be like a C-Dory, slow, rough riding, tough as an anvil and a little odd, I'm thinking pre emissions Mitsubishi Fuso FG140
18mpg loafing down the road empty
9-12 mpg towing
Had a 93 Landcruiser, straight 6 engine, 5,000 tow rating that towed the boat well and returned about the same mileage.
use caution when truck shopping. The so called tonnage rating of trucks means very little. There are half ton trucks that do return about 22mpg but in their high mpg form don't allow much for hauling or towing capacity. There are also 1/2 t rigs that are capable of towing and hauling more than many of the older 3/4 ton trucks. A properly equipped 1/2 ton will tow your boat with no problems.
It looks to me like with the new emissions requirements on diesel engines, the difference in mileage between the gas and diesel engines is reduced making it durn hard to justify the extra cost for the occasional tow.
It's hard to cheat physics, to get a rig that is designed to haul much of a load, it's going to be consuming more fuel
things to look for-
tow package, usually includes much more than a trailer hitch, some will have a heavier duty transmission, transmission cooler and stouter suspension
rear axle ratio, the higher the number the more you can tow but the worse mpg you'll get.....a 4:10 will tow, a 3:53 will return better mpg.....this is one means used to advertise those trucks that get the good mileage, they're geared to be just idling down the freeway but can't tow squat
GCVW, gross combined vehicle weight, that determines how much you can load up on old Betsy after subtracting the weight of the vehicle itself.
rigs...arg, I think my next truck will be like a C-Dory, slow, rough riding, tough as an anvil and a little odd, I'm thinking pre emissions Mitsubishi Fuso FG140
Jim,
As you know, I have the 2005 F350 (longbed crewcab, 6.0 diesel). Like Jim, I love the truck although it's now a bit of overkill since I sold the 3100# camper, but it works. My only complaint is "Moby Truck" is like driving an aircraft carrier ... L O N G !
In September I sort of neutered the F350 into an F250 (changed the outside placards...) so the homeowners association in The Villages (FL) wouldn't get so upset. (They permit 3/4ton trucks, but nothing larger; so now I have a "F250!" Gee, I wonder if I'll get better mileage with the "smaller" truck, eh?!?)
Mileagewise I get about 16-17 on the road, and about 12(13?) towing the CC23. Previously (with the CD22) I tried towing (with the camper) at more conservative speeds (55-60) and it didn't help the mileage at all. I suspect that has something to do with the torque curve and where the engine develops its Power (about 2200rpm). Maybe Dr. Bob will chime-in on the mystique of torque curves (I never really understood it).
Best,
Casey
Lake Montezuma (and anxious to be on the Road!)
As you know, I have the 2005 F350 (longbed crewcab, 6.0 diesel). Like Jim, I love the truck although it's now a bit of overkill since I sold the 3100# camper, but it works. My only complaint is "Moby Truck" is like driving an aircraft carrier ... L O N G !
In September I sort of neutered the F350 into an F250 (changed the outside placards...) so the homeowners association in The Villages (FL) wouldn't get so upset. (They permit 3/4ton trucks, but nothing larger; so now I have a "F250!" Gee, I wonder if I'll get better mileage with the "smaller" truck, eh?!?)
Mileagewise I get about 16-17 on the road, and about 12(13?) towing the CC23. Previously (with the CD22) I tried towing (with the camper) at more conservative speeds (55-60) and it didn't help the mileage at all. I suspect that has something to do with the torque curve and where the engine develops its Power (about 2200rpm). Maybe Dr. Bob will chime-in on the mystique of torque curves (I never really understood it).
Best,
Casey
Lake Montezuma (and anxious to be on the Road!)
If you can't reason with unreasonable behavior, you punt. OK, more of a field goal than a punt. :wink: :thup 
B~C":1ib78evp said:
That's the whole enchilada for me...no way I'd buy a new diesel truck.
All that new emissions stuff, comes loaded with additional complexities - mechanical, and more importantly, electronic. In addition to the superior towing ability of the old diesels, they couldn't be beat for simplicity - even a goof like me, can diagnose and repair things in the rare instances it's needed.
Were I inclined to buy new for a CD 22/23, I'd take a close look at the Toyota - lot's of satisfied people here and elsewhere own it. But, such a purchase makes no sense to me if strictly for occasional use like towing/hauling - personally, I don't like using a truck as a daily driver.
For occasional use, I'd pick up a used 97-02 Ford/Dodge diesel. One would save $10-25K over new, and have a superior towing vehicle.
jennykatz":3oiv52wz said:
Hello Jim,
I've been very pleased with the towing capability of my 2004 Chev Suburban 1500. It is equipped with whatever V8 was standard for that model year and the Z71 4WD option which makes me feel better at the launch ramp (but I've not yet needed). I don't feel I need any more power for pulling the CC23.
Towing it gets approx 11 mpg. Solo it gets 17 on highway and 13-14 city. The solo mpg numbers will got up by nearly 2 if you omit the 4WD option.
YMMV,
/david
Seems like the 3/4 ton truck is overkill for a Venture 23. Generally diesels get 20 hp per gallon of fuel and gas engines get 14 hp per gallon of fuel.
Our Ford Excursion 7.3 diesel gets 20 mpg when running light, occasionally slightly more. I averaged 20 mpg when towing only the trailer to pick up the C Dory 25 (1200 miles)--mostly on level highways and mostly at 60 mph. With the boat the mileage drops down considerably. (Depends of the terrain and boat which is being towed).
For the torque and pulling power the diesel is worth while, but I think it is difficult to justify for "Economy". We drive a 30 foot RV with the Ford v10 and get 8 miles per gallon. Generally diesel is more expensive (depends on the part of the country), but with a diesel we might expect to get 11 miles per gallon max--and have higher speeds up the grades. We don't notice any difference in mileage pulling either the C Dory 22 or 25 behind this RV--which suggests that the biggest "drag" factor is windage, and not weight. 8 mp g n ot towing, towing a Honda Pilot, a C Dory 22 or C Dory25.
Our Ford Excursion 7.3 diesel gets 20 mpg when running light, occasionally slightly more. I averaged 20 mpg when towing only the trailer to pick up the C Dory 25 (1200 miles)--mostly on level highways and mostly at 60 mph. With the boat the mileage drops down considerably. (Depends of the terrain and boat which is being towed).
For the torque and pulling power the diesel is worth while, but I think it is difficult to justify for "Economy". We drive a 30 foot RV with the Ford v10 and get 8 miles per gallon. Generally diesel is more expensive (depends on the part of the country), but with a diesel we might expect to get 11 miles per gallon max--and have higher speeds up the grades. We don't notice any difference in mileage pulling either the C Dory 22 or 25 behind this RV--which suggests that the biggest "drag" factor is windage, and not weight. 8 mp g n ot towing, towing a Honda Pilot, a C Dory 22 or C Dory25.
kennharriet
Member
Regardless of the tow vehicle, the addition of a transmission temperature gauge is a good tool. Years ago, I caught a transmission on fire on a long grade with a heavy trailer. The engine would handle the load but unaware to me, I was over temping the transmission. I have installed a temp gauge on everything since. Our present duramax/allison comes with a transmission temp gauge. The allison is a strong transmission, but it still gets warm on a long pull. Dropping down a gear will increase cooling capacity quickly. Even on the flat with a max gross weight load, slowing down or taking it out of overdrive will extend the transmission life.
Don and Brenda
New member
I bought my Tacoma new in 2007, and I finally dumped it and bought a used Nissan Titan. Now while the Toyota was a good tow vehicle, it sucked the big one for dealer customer service. I stated getting piston slap after the first 500 miles, delaer said that is normal, it's just a noisy engine. Then I had the wind noise which the dealer never found and had never heard of until I showed them the service bullitin for the source and how to repair. then the front end noise at 20,000 miles, oh they all do that it is normal. I took it to 2 different dealers, they both claimed normal. I searched numerous web sites and low and behold, lots of other people have the same problem. I have owned and loved Toyotas in the past but I think their customer service went down the tubes while they were trying to pass up GM. I loved the truck, just wished they would own up to issues that are known problems. And I know every manufacturer has some issues, I was just getting tired of dealing with it.
I looked for a Excursion like Dr. Bob has, I thought that it would be perfect for dragging Fan-C-Dory around. Butttt - I couldn't find one properly equipped (7.3 diesel, 4x4) near Houston, realistically priced. So based on Jim's rants I went out today and bought a used Duramax 2500HD. Driving it around today (not much history yet) we got 19.8 MPG and with all the torque it feels like I won't even need to take the boat out of the barn - just tow barn and all down the road ! I think this is gonna be OK....
Jim: Enjoyed our chat a while back. Glad to see you are looking for something more reasonable to tow your boat with....that does not limit where you tow.
First, pay attention to your own words....."Loree wants an SUV." Give it to her and stop looking at trucks to pull your boat.
You have a nice car that gets good mileage. Use it. When time to tow, get in the tow vehicle and go. Take note on just about anything folks tow with, the mileage floats between about 10-12 mpg with a mid ground of about 11mpg. IF... you tow 7500 miles a year, that is about 780 gallons of fuel on average.... Now you run the low-high numbers for mileage, and/or the trips you really plan to make (I attempted to get you from Naples FL to Seattle and back for a nice round trip). Your mileage useage/savings and/or exspenses are not going to change that much...and you already own the mileage vehicle that Loree likes.
Second: Go back to first and re-read...."Loree wants an SUV." Stop looking at trucks. If Momma ain't happy, aint nobody happy.
Here is a bit older, but a great tow vehicle in your area (less than 100 miles)..... for less than $10000 that I found in less than 2 minutes.
(traderonline.com) 91 Toy Sequoia SR5, $9,995 < 70,000 miles
This is a no brainer man with all the SUVs in your area that never left the mall parking lots....
You did notice my tow vehicle is the 2005 Ford Excursion with the 6.0 diesel....but, I do not tow a CC23 either. Sherryl liked SUVs.
First, pay attention to your own words....."Loree wants an SUV." Give it to her and stop looking at trucks to pull your boat.
You have a nice car that gets good mileage. Use it. When time to tow, get in the tow vehicle and go. Take note on just about anything folks tow with, the mileage floats between about 10-12 mpg with a mid ground of about 11mpg. IF... you tow 7500 miles a year, that is about 780 gallons of fuel on average.... Now you run the low-high numbers for mileage, and/or the trips you really plan to make (I attempted to get you from Naples FL to Seattle and back for a nice round trip). Your mileage useage/savings and/or exspenses are not going to change that much...and you already own the mileage vehicle that Loree likes.
Second: Go back to first and re-read...."Loree wants an SUV." Stop looking at trucks. If Momma ain't happy, aint nobody happy.
Here is a bit older, but a great tow vehicle in your area (less than 100 miles)..... for less than $10000 that I found in less than 2 minutes.
(traderonline.com) 91 Toy Sequoia SR5, $9,995 < 70,000 miles
This is a no brainer man with all the SUVs in your area that never left the mall parking lots....
You did notice my tow vehicle is the 2005 Ford Excursion with the 6.0 diesel....but, I do not tow a CC23 either. Sherryl liked SUVs.
O.K. I've been watching this thread since it got going and will now throw in my $.02. Not really anything new to add except on the issue of cross country towing and mountains.
I feel very strongly that a 1500 Z71 4x4 should be considered an absolute minimum long distance tow rig for a 22.
Recently we towed Osprey from MN to AL with our 02 Avalanche. While we made it with no trouble, some very high winds and the mountain grades made it pretty clear that a bit more weight and snort would have been much better. With lots of similar annual trips in our future, we will eventually move up to a Duramax 2500HD 4x4. We could then consider a CD 25.
We just don't like to strain our equipment. The right tool for the job is the kind of mentality to have.
Sure, you can bore a 1" hole in a 2x4 with a 1/4" drill motor but it will take a long time, get really hot, and probably not do it very many times before it gives out.
Something not discussed much is the issue of driver strain. We find that in those high wind or steep grade scenario's, the driver tires out much quicker, as well, just keeping the rig between the lines.
My advice: fight stress. Overkill is always preferable to underkill. Get a big powerful tow rig and your long distance trips will be more enjoyable.
Capt Dan
I feel very strongly that a 1500 Z71 4x4 should be considered an absolute minimum long distance tow rig for a 22.
Recently we towed Osprey from MN to AL with our 02 Avalanche. While we made it with no trouble, some very high winds and the mountain grades made it pretty clear that a bit more weight and snort would have been much better. With lots of similar annual trips in our future, we will eventually move up to a Duramax 2500HD 4x4. We could then consider a CD 25.
We just don't like to strain our equipment. The right tool for the job is the kind of mentality to have.
Sure, you can bore a 1" hole in a 2x4 with a 1/4" drill motor but it will take a long time, get really hot, and probably not do it very many times before it gives out.
Something not discussed much is the issue of driver strain. We find that in those high wind or steep grade scenario's, the driver tires out much quicker, as well, just keeping the rig between the lines.
My advice: fight stress. Overkill is always preferable to underkill. Get a big powerful tow rig and your long distance trips will be more enjoyable.
Capt Dan