Your Experiences - single with kicker | single w/o kicker

C

crowleykirk

New member
Just wondering experiences with each. Not another (twin) debate just curious what some thoughts are.

Some folks Ok with just single and I totally understand, some love the reduntancy of the kicker. Wondering if anyone has used their kicker in an emergency.

Pluses and minuses of each and what horsepower and make are folks liking or disliking.

I'm specifically asking in the case of a 23 Venture but this would apply to all singles. And no... I don't want twins. Maybe we keep twins out of this discussion if at all possible? :-)

Thank you,
Kirk
 
I have a single. Being a flatlander before moving to the north coast, I’ve always had concerns about problems offshore. We added a 9.9 hi-thrust Yamaha kicker. Due to the leaky nature of the original lazzerette hatch covers(since replaced), the batteries & wiring were always wet Causing an electrical problem with the main. Thanked my lucky stars when 10 miles south of the harbor, in heavy fog and nobody around, the main wouldn’t start! Horrors!! I now call it a get home motor! My main trolls slow enough so I never use 9.9 for trolling. It was well worth the investment. There’s a lot to be said for a get home motor!!
 
I have a single. Being a flatlander before moving to the north coast, I’ve always had concerns about problems offshore. We added a 9.9 hi-thrust Yamaha kicker. Due to the leaky nature of the original lazzerette hatch covers(since replaced), the batteries & wiring were always wet Causing an electrical problem with the main. Thanked my lucky stars when 10 miles south of the harbor, in heavy fog and nobody around, the main wouldn’t start! Horrors!! I now call it a get home motor! My main trolls slow enough so I never use 9.9 for trolling. It was well worth the investment. There’s a lot to be said for a get home motor!!
 
I have owned single outboard boats since 1957. I have had provisions for kickers on many--but only used a kicker once on an inboard. I did have to push a 62' foot ketch around with an inflatable and a 25 hp outboard..when the transmission failed. The failure rate of modern outboards is extremely low. Usually the problem is fuel. Catastrophic failure can occur. But 80% + problems can be fixed by the owner with a good set of tools and a few spare parts. The one engine problem I had, the engine went into limp home mode and would push the boat at 7 knots. I also. had an electric shift in the lower unit fail, in forward gear. I have no idea of how many thousands of hours I have on outboards.

At this point I use either the Torqeedo electric dinghy motor to push the boat to a safe place, or a 3.5 hp Merc 2 stroke. If I am going into remote areas, I take the Merc and 2 cycle oil. I have a method of getting fuel out of the main tank if necessary and mixing it in one or two gallon containers. The speed will be low, but it would get me to safety. I have used this on voyages to AK, BC, and Channel Islands.

Just my experience and opinion--yours may vary.
 
OK, I will try to behave myself, :roll:
".... I don't want twins. Maybe we keep twins out of this discussion if at all possible? Smile
Click to expand...

For a fine example of single engine only use, look no further than the general aviation industry. Thousands of single engine "vessels" in use daily, no kickers and no (or honestly extremely rarely) is there an engine failure. And, when there is it is traced to one of two things, maintenance, (skips or short cuts, either in parts or service) or fuel. Their "get home engine" is gravity.

For many boats, the get home may be on the other side of the lake from where you want to be, but is not life endangering. IF you maintain your OB like your life depends on it, and IF you zero out the risk factor, then maybe a single will work for you. For some of us, we wear suspenders :shock: and add the belt to make us feel better. :wink

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
I don't have a kicker, but then I don't boat in the boonies. If I did, I might reconsider.

If I have an issue and might be in peril, I can drop anchor and then sort it out. This happened only one time, I ran one tank dry and after switching it took a bit to get the engine started again. At the time I was in a river and the current was pushing me towards a rock jetty. I got the anchor out in less time that it probably would've taken to get a kicker down and operating, especially if it hadn't been used for awhile.

As mentioned, current outboard motors are very reliable. If it is maintained well it should not have any problems. As also mentioned, some motors have limp mode which allows the engine to run at reduced power if necessary due to a malfunction. My Honda limits the RPM to 2K when limping.

IMO, that leaves two common routes to failure. One is hitting something with the lower unit that renders it unusable. Not much you can do about that except not hit things. If you have a kicker you'd likely travel with it in the up position so something that takes out the main lower unit will miss the kicker lower unit.

The other is the fuel supply. Most likely this it bad fuel, but could be hoses failing. If you run the kicker off the main supply any problems that the main has with running will also likely occur with the kicker. You can maintain a separate fuel supply for the kicker. To prevent contaminated fuel from taking out the kicker and the main, you would need to be diligent on sourcing the fuel for the kicker from a different place than the fuel for the main engine. It should be obvious that any limp modes will not help if the problem with running the engine is fuel.
 
Our kickers have saved our C-Dory twice and our 26-foot cruiser once from disaster on rocky lee shores, when kelp had blocked the water intakes and caused the main to overheat. Another time when we spun a prop crossing Taku Inlet near Juneau in windy conditions. And twice brought us back from 10-12 miles out after engine or sterndrive problems, once from part way up into Glacier Bay. And two other times when we had equipment problems in a crowded harbor, with other boats only yards away.

We could possibly have been saved by a tow in only two or three of these situations. In the others, we were so remote that no tow service was available, and few other boaters either. Or we were so close to the rocks or boats that there was not enough time for a tow, or a kind fellow boater, to get to us. Or both.

Love my kicker! And it's great for salmon trolling too.
 
I have used a kicker out of necessity twice in twenty years. Once to get the last six miles to Friday Harbor when the water pump failed on the old Honda. The second time was when the steering cable broke on the way across the Columbia River bar. It was a clam day so we turned around and went the thirteen miles back to Warrenton with the kicker. Those were both with my current CD25 that had a 15 hp Honda for a kicker.

A couple years later I was a day late tipping the motors down into the water and it froze hard enough to bust the 15 hp Honda. I went without a kicker for a couple years until the big Honda 130 started acting up while we were out crabbing close to Clatsop Spit. I was able to keep the motor going long enough to get us home but decided that I would not be without a backup out there again.

I bought a Suzuki 9.9 along with a Suzuki 200 for the repower and have been very pleased with them.

To answer your question about size, I think you will find that 9.9 hp is enough to move the boat at displacement speed so you don't need anything more unless you hope to get on plane. That would take one of the twins we aren't talking about. When I bought the new kicker I was all set to spring for a 15 or 20 hp until the salesman (Sportcraft, in Oregon City) told me I would be wasting money and adding weight for nothing to go bigger than 9.9 even on my heavy CD25. The Suzuki 9.9 I bought has EFI, electric start and and power tilt. The EFI will work without a battery but I like the start and tilt so I have a small battery dedicated to it.
 
Just what i was hoping for. Spec'ing a new 23 right now and this is in discussion.

I'm leaning 9.9 Suzuki kicker. Looks like it weighs in at 120 lbs. That's considerable but I'd go with a 140 Suzuki main so the weight should be fine.

I've been out on many single diesel nd twins... twin diesel on single is very hard to handle.

I agree these engines are so good these days and I'm a super anal guy when it comes to that. Former diesel tech on large yachts and some small ones:-)

I like the idea of not having one as well just for all the simplicity. For now our main goal is to cruise the San Juans, we are part time San Juan Island and into Canada when that re-opens. Trying to get an order in with a few weeks here to make ready for next May.

That darn fence... I'm still on it:-)
 
Getting back from a trip out into the ocean or fighting big tides, currents and winds is one thing, but if you don't expect these and don't want to spend a few thousand on a kicker that you will likely never use, you might consider a bow mount or anti-vent plate electric "kicker", or both in my case. I use mine nearly every outing and almost always at docking in tight places.

At full thrust both together will push about 4.5 knots.

The "anchor" mode where the electric will keep me in one place is particularly useful if you don't want to put out a real anchor, maybe eat lunch, fish a bit, or pull a pot when windy or tidey. Trolling at 0.5-4.5 knots is another. With my Honda generator the range is indefinite, at least until you run out of gas. The front-mount will turn into wind, and is more useful then a front thruster, IMHO.

The only down side I've found is with large waves, the front mount motor will come out of the water occasionally, but other than noise, this hasn't really caused any problems that I can see.

Here was the thread...I think there are others, and there are pictures of them on my site if you want to take a look.

The 2003 Honda 9.9 with trim, tilt if available if you want to make an offer. Seems to run fine, I just never use it.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=11644
 
Havey makes a good case and that is one that I have always followed. I do not fill both of my fuel tanks at the same time, in case I end up with bad gas from the last fill-up.
After owning 65 + boats and towing more than 800, when in the CG, I still make darn sure, that my outboard gets the best maintenance and that I do my self to ensure it gets done correctly. I have owned one boat with twins and never had to limp home on one engine and owned a big center console with a 25 HP kicker. The 25 NEVER got used excepted when I started it for maintenance. What I absolutely dreaded about that 25 was that being offset from the centerline, always took a very good salt water bath at sea. I found that the 25 was more maintenance because of always getting this bath. I eventually took the 25 off, as well as the bracket and never looked back.
For my new (to me) 26, I purchased a 9.9 Honda and a bracket, but looking back at my big center console, I do not think that I will mount it and soon will sell it, as I am tired of it taking up space, I have over 350 hour on my new boat in less than 1.5 years and I still stick to very tight standards for maintenance. I do carry critical spare parts just in case I need to drop my 200' of chain and 150' of 3 strand to fix my problems.
 
As a follow-up to my last note, almost all of the boats that I towed had mechanical issues due to little or no maintenance and also not enough fuel for their voyage, or bad fuel, because they only used their boat a few times a year...
 
Marty at Master Marine was on the fence as well. Really like him, really talked me through all the options and did not try to sell me on anything I didn't need. I like that in a salesmen.

But he did suggest a 6hp Suzuki instead of the 9.9 if we wanted a kicker. It is enough in his opinion and has a separate fuel tank. i suppose a kicker could always be added later. I won't have a dingy so that's not an option. We'll be going kayak style ala...C-Sharp:-)
 
Couldn’t get my single Honda 90 started at my dock and had to get it to the boat ramp about a mile away. Used my 6 hp Nissan kicker to get me there. I was surprised how well the setup worked. Also use the kicker on my Zodiac Wave. Just changed the prop on the kicker for the CDory (22’).

John
Swee Pea
 
The 6 HP would do fine. Just get a low pitched prop. I have told this story before.
My dad had a 26' wooden sailboat, which had a hull very similar to the C Dory 25 (hard chine, arc bottom, a little V forward. He had a 1932 5 hp Evinrude set in a well. It pushed the boat at about 5 knots. We would often to to Catalina if there was no wind under that "kicker". By the 1960's parts were getting impossible to find, and so he bought a 9.9 Evinrude. The 5. hp moved the boat as well as the 9.9. You only have a certain speed which the boat can be easily driven. Granted if there are seas, or adverse wind, the smaller motors may have a slightly lower speed.

It is also nice to have a kicker which will be useful on a dinghy.
 
I have a 22 with a Honda 90 and a Honda 9.9. I use the kicker for fishing, but it's main purpose is as a "Get me Home" motor. I boat in remote places and like the security of having something other than a paddle to get me home. This happened to me in Lake Powell in 2018. We were up the San Juan River when I had a failure on the 90. So we ended up cursing 50 miles back to Bull Frog Marina on the 9,9. It was slow and sometimes a bit tough in the wind, but we made it back. Deep in the canyon we did not have VHF radio contact, but I could have gotten a message out via my Garmin InReach. Next year I plan to be up on the north coast of BC near Prince Rupert and I would not consider doing a trip like this with only one motor. My boat came with this motor combo, but if I were to repower or buy a new boat I would seriously consider a set of twins. If one motor failed, I would feel more secure coming back on a 40 - 50 HP, rather than a 9.9.
 
I have a 2018 Venture 23 with a Yamaha 115 and T9.9 kicker. I went with Yamaha T9.9 because of my experience on other boats. Previously I had a 2007 22 Cruiser with a Honda BF90 main. I first bought a Tohatsu 6 kicker thinking I could use it on the dinghy as well. That didn’t turn out to be practical and was not enough power for trolling so I went up to Tohatsu 9.8 manual tilt. That was much better, but still not great. (Tried various props too.)

I also had an older Yamaha T9.9 on a trimaran and really liked it. The dinner plate sized prop works really well. Since the 23 already had a Yamaha the decision was easy. I had the controls led forward and got the electric tilt. We’re super happy with it and can troll in pretty much any conditions.

PM me if you want to chat about these fun choices and trade offs.
 
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