Yamaha vs Suzuki

Pulled from internet so I'm just the messenger. May not be correct.

Yamaha 200HP 220 kg (487 lbs) - 221 kg (489 lb)

Evinrude From 390 to 426 (177 to 193) - Weight varies by shaft length and steering

2-stroke should be lighter. Maybe 50lbs. give or take. About what you said
thataway.

This is an interesting post. I never considered a 2-stroke before and would still probably go 4-stroke for lots of reasons but one big one being that's what all of you are running and the data supports that they are the way to go.

But.... it's just the gearhead in me. These new Evinrudes are showing up on a lot of new boats. Wonder if C-Dory has an RD dept. that would look into it? I imagine they are contracted with the manufacturers they are using. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I believe they are more benificial to go fast boats. We'd just like to cruise and enjoy the scenery at lower RPM's with some on tap if need be etc...

Man... so curious, that would be a great test. Wonder if Evinrude would be interested in doing a test. This technology is so good now. Sorry forefathers,
but thank you for your trails and errors. We are the beneficiary:-)
 
Interesting video, thanks. I'm quite ignorant about these things but would that initial torque of the Evinrude make much of a difference with a C-Dory? I'm not looking for speed but if the boat is weighted down would the Evinrude help plane faster? Or is that extra torque not necessary on a lower performance boat?
 
When you figure the weight of an oil injected two stroke figure in the weight of the oil tank, pump and the all the oil. You may still be under the weight of 4 stroke but the gap shrinks. I’m not that familiar with the new Evinrude engines but I sure love my Yamaha.......
 
The evinrude weight numbers include oil that which is now internal. Very clean set up. 4-strokes have more torque off bottom but a 2-stroke has quicker acceleration. I don't see that as a plus or necessary on a C-Dory. I'm not in hurry. That video sure was interesting though. But keep in mind all at higher RPM, a little more noise and fuel consumption. I guess it's coming up with a pros and cons list of performance and costs to operate. The weight is nice but not that much of a difference, although 40-50 pounds it nothing to laugh at but certainly not enough to make us switch from 4 to 2.

I'm not sure how the Dory would react and I'm not suggesting one is better than the other. I just find the topic super interesting and now of course I want to know:-)

I like the simplicity fact of the 2-stroke. I'll have to research how often it needs piston, rings and bearings. Basically the cost and intervel of a top end. That basically all there is to a 2-stroke. Of course these modern one much more electronics to deal with but they all have that.

4-strokes are much more complicated thus will costs more $$$ to maintain.
If there is a major internal issue it's going to really costs you. But, that said,
4-strokes have proven they are excellent and reliable, can't argue that and I'm not.

That a 2-stroke isn't even an option probably is telling all by itself. When we get down to actually purchasing maybe I could contact Envinrude and see if they would be intereted in a test on a new boat..... free of charge of course unless it works well?

Again, not trying to start a war or anything of the of the sort. I love all this technology and they is so much knowledge on this board thought it could be thought provoking and informative.

Anyone learns anything else please post:-)

Cheers...
 
Having owned 3 E-tec v6 motors in the last 12 years, here is my brief thought.
I never had any issues and performance was good. The existing local dealer network is woefully inadequate, and no improvement has occurred. Lastly, I heard a comment from a Florida outboard shop that has stuck with me. " The E-tec is a computer". Meaning it's entire function is electronically based. A electrical problem can result in a burned cylinder, meaning the block is scrap. To the end user, this can mean heartbreak.
 
That is good info. Thank you.
All engines are computer controlled today and with that comes issues as we all know from our cars etc.... my F250 has 2 computers onboard. Oh man.

I won't do anything but basically check oil, tire pressure and change wiper blades on our cars these days:-) And replace the battery ever 4 years. But I can drive down to the dealer at any point in time if need be. Not so easy with a boat.

Having a good service and parts network is essential. Our plans are to mostly stay in the San Jaun's, Canada and hopefully one day with lots of experience up the inside passage to Alaska. So getting service and parts would be mandatory.

There is no perfect engine, boat etc... sometimes you can get a lemon and sometimes "it" just happens, and will.

Nevertheless.... been a good discussion. I hope more will share their experiences.

That said... I really like the Suzuki. But.... still need to research the differences etc. Parts, service, warranty etc... I think they are all good. I worked an a test rider many, many years ago for Yamaha. They are a good company. Honda as well. On the motorcycle side of things Suzuki is really far behind in recent years.

I know nothing about any of these outboards but will learn. I like to be able to fix almost anything I own if needed and able. I'm a huge believer in carrying spare parts as well. Again, as long as it is something I can manage with my knowledge and tools on board. I don't won't to bring a roll away tool box onboard:-)

We are hoping to be on Friday Harbor when you guys have your get-together. Hope we are there, so want to check that out:-)
 
We like our 2006 Suzuki DF 150. It has been flawless for a decade with just basic maintenance. I'd buy another Suzuki.

My buddy likes his 2018 Yamaha 250 w/ "fly by wire" controls. He'd buy another Yamaha. His last engine was a "modern" 2 stroke and the ECU took a dump.

I think both brands are comparable in quality, longevity etc. I'd be happy with either on the stern.
 
I also am pleased with the Suzuki. My 2017 DF200a has performed flawlessly for a little over 600 hours so far.

Suzuki and Yamaha both offer the higher HP motors (150-175-200) with the inline four cylinder configuration which is a good hundred pounds lighter than the V6 motors. Either brand is great so the biggest factor in choosing would be what your preferred dealer carries.

My dealer and others have told me that Suzuki really got their butt kicked with the internal corrosion problems several years back and have upped their game considerably to earn their spot on the list of favorites.
 
skydog1":2tjjj03f said:
....
All engines are computer controlled today and with that comes issues as we all know from our cars etc.... my F250 has 2 computers onboard. Oh man.
...
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If your F250 was built in the last 10 years, it's got way more than 2 computers.
 
Wow.. that's a great endorsement right there.
Good to hear that. The dealer in Mt. Vernon, Marty, really seemed to favor the Suzuki as well, I just thought was for other reasons but he said a lot of the same things so maybe not just a sales pitch:-)

My Ford has one Powertrain Control Module (PCM) which controls all the other "stuff" I certainly do not know how many it controls nor do I claim to know.
My dealer had told me two main control computers.... so my comment may have been misleading or inaccurate. I do know if it fails it will go to the dealer. I don't plan on diagnosing that if it happens. My point was just that the tech has advanced so far beyond what it was 20 - 30 years ago and we benefit from it. There is also something to be said for old technology.

The old diesels which were new at the time powered a ton of Grand Banks boats among others that are still running just fine today and super easy to work on and maintain. Parts are still available in most cases. They are workhorses for sure:-)

But as far as outboards go... man... night and day:-)
 
This "Test" is biased (as many are) toward the Evinrude. The one fatal flaw is that the tester claims he does not want to "over rev" the Yamaha. In fact the engine is rated WOT at 6,000 RPM, and he only gets it to 3500 RPM which shows a huge amount of slip. and never comes close to WOT.. Yet the Evinrude, is propped (with the different gear ratio) so hit can reach at least 5500 RPM--better 6000 RPM. With my first 25, I only had a Honda 130, same block at the 115. I could not get WOT at Lake Powell...(Altitude about 3700 feet). I had to go from a 15" prop to an 11" prop to get the boat to perform properly.

There have been a number of "Tests" thru the years, with the same flaw--not using the proper prop.

One of the fallacies in many cases is using the same prop which is recommended for twin engine runs, with a single engine. You have to go way down in pitch. To plane many boats on a single engine you have to carry the prop, and then put the prop on at sea.

Evinrude has along and great reputation (well not so good with some of the early Fitch engines..and a few of the first generation of this series.). Lots of people like them and get good use. I personally am not sold on them being the proper engine for my personal use.

Wonder if C-Dory has an RD dept. that would look into it? I imagine they are contracted with the manufacturers they are using. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I believe they are more benificial to go fast boats. We'd just like to cruise and enjoy the scenery at lower RPM's with some on tap if need be etc..
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R & D ? The lines and basic molds were laid down in 1987 for the 22, and 1995 for the 25. There is no "R & D". The C Dorys are often rigged at the dealers (More profit for the dealer). You are correct that some lines use only a certain engine on their hulls. Often the engine manufacturer is owned by the same company as the hull manufacturer.

If you want fast--most of the really fast boats have been powered by Merc. But the racing engines don't compare to what you and I run. I am most familiar with the Formula one power boats: 20' long 7' wide, and weight of less than 900#. Mercury Marine V6 two stroke engine generates 425 horsepower at 10,500 RPM. I rode in a two seat demo, and it reached a speed of 138 mph--top speed for racing (single person) boats is over 150 mph. They can reach 100 nautical mph in 4 seconds.

We enjoy slow cruising, but there are times you want to get home fast, out run weather, etc--and a turn of speed becomes a safety issue. If you only want to go slow--then I believe that some of the original 25 "cruise ships" were supplied with 50 hp outboards...displacement speeds only..

With the correct prop, I am sure the Evinrude would would have still been faster, but how much is not known. Yep, the test boat had a dead rise of almost 22*, and that is why it is rated for 400 hp, vs the 115 for the c Dory 22...[/quote]
 
I'm a firm believer that lighter is better as long as one doesn't compromise "things". So, here is a list of outboards and their weight in lbs. For a typical 22, I used 115 HP. Long and short shaft, I don't know which a 22 uses.

Mercury 359 363
Yamaha 377 386
Evinrude 390 426
Suzuki 401 412
Merc HO 455
Honda 478 485

The Honda weight is the same for a 115 and 150, but it's what is listed.

Boris
 
Yeah, not looking at a go fast boat. I don't see the Dory as that but as needed like you mentioned. Sure, some flat water, be nice to haul the mail if for nothing but fun:-)

I suppose the test is leaning in favor of the Evinrude but they did change props andI thought they were WOT. I'll watch again, maybe I missed that.
And unbiased test would be nice. I think it would be very interesting to try one on a C-Dory for the knowledge, but none of us want o be guinea pig unless they provided the motor. For all the reasons stated in many of these comments seems like the obvious choice is 4-stroke, no question. I guess I should go down the twin verse single road can of worms. I'm still researching and have looked at many of the posts here.... good information.

All manufacturers should have R&D. But I guess what you're saying is that it's a tried and true and established design so no improvements or changes are warranted. Maybe the C-Dory can't be improved but I find that hard to believe. Maybe the funds just aren't there for that sort of thing. The companies I worked with had huge budgets. If it ain't broke:-)

Your fast boat experience sounds like a blast. I've been on some fast boats but not that fast. Hmmmm.... a 25 C-Dory doing 90 plus.. now that could be exciting.

We're not in it for speed. Want to explore and see things and be safe. Nice to know some speed is on tap though.

Hey Boris, man, the Honda is a fatty. I'm sure they make an awesome reliable product. But weight does concern me a bit. Especially in choppy water where we want to use trim etc.... it all adds up. Thanks for digging up those numbers.

I like the piccolo comment John:-) Single or twin pianos on your boat?

Kirk
 
Sure, some flat water, be nice to haul the mail if for nothing but fun:-)
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Only full-throttled our 25 once, and that was the first outing, so the boat was empty & light and the water flat as a table. Peaked out at ~30 knots and was squirly as hell. It felt as if at any moment the boat could slide around 180*, like driving a rear wheeled car on ice.
 
After having a V-drive flatbottomed big block ski boat that would do over 90 and pull me on a big ski at over 80, and a tournament ski boat that would pull all day at 50, the 30+ we can do in Sierra when she is light seems a bit slow....though compared to 7 in our sailboats....it's all relative I guess, the C-dory seems a perfect compromise between speed, efficiency and accommodations.
 
If you want fast and like Yamaha - I just saw a 425hp V8 at the boat show!

And John - they make musical instruments as well !

Think the weight limit might be out the window though!

Rob
 
All manufacturers should have R&D. But I guess what you're saying is that it's a tried and true and established design so no improvements or changes are warranted. Maybe the C-Dory can't be improved but I find that hard to believe. Maybe the funds just aren't there for that sort of thing. The companies I worked with had huge budgets. If it ain't broke:-)
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No that is not at all what I am implying. There is no R & D, because they bought the molds of a boat which has a loyal fallowing. Perhaps the best way to tell about the company is in their own words: (condensed)

HOW IT ALL BEGAN
.......Northwest Marine Industries has taken over as a manufacturing entity with strong history. At the helm of our operation is Ron Wright, who established the Sea Sport line of boats over 30 years ago with his brother David Wright and nephew David A. Wright. The family business dates back to 1955 when Sportsman Boats was located in Fairhaven and Ron and David’s father Frank was the owner. ...... After a hiatus from the boating industry, Ron has decided to return as the head of Northwest Marine Industries. Ron brings his expertise in creating quality boats along with his stellar reputation as an up front and honest businessman. Ron has partnered with his son Mark Wright, son-in-law Ryan Binning and our new production manager Greg Little. This distinguished team of four is committed to produce and distribute the highest quality products for boaters all across the world.
SeaSport boats are known in the industry as one of the most versatile and rugged boats available. At Northwest Marine Industries, we are also proud to announce that we will be building all models of the C-Dory, Osprey, Tomcat, and Skagit Orca lines. Our employees have a long history with these boats and are prepared and motivated to construct them all with superior and unparalleled craftsmanship.
...... All boats ordered are considered “Custom” and great care is taken in the details. Our dealers share our same values and are an extension of the NMI family.
.... All of our boats have familiar names, lines, and hulls, but our hope is to continue to upgrade finish and options according to desires of our customers. Northwest Marine Industries is a family business and customer driven, and we intend on continuing our industry leading marks for customer service.
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In other words C Dory is only one of several lines which the Wrights (Northwest Marine Industries, rescued). It is a small family company. The workers are dedicated, but not the highest paid. Building a fiberglass boat is a "dirty" business, with some risks...

This its not a mega company like Sea Ray, (Which has contracted even with the economic boom), where money is made by changing models and designs. Many small boats use pirated lines, do not use real naval architects, and some are only run by a handful of people. Some have a good reputation, but without change would not exist. There are a number of tried designs which do well. My personal feeling is that the Tom Cat can be improved with some mold modifications to make the bridge deck higher off the water. Several others have made similar suggestion--but it never happens.

So if you were "head of R & D", just what would you consider as desirable modifications of the C Dory? :roll: (Hint--R & D is not running different brand engines on a C Dory.. There are performance trials which do this: see boat test . com.). Also manufactures run performance tests on popular models. C Dory is a niche boat--

There are hydrodynamic naval engineers and Naval architects who do all sorts of experiments in both wind and water experimental settings--that is who does the R & D. For example the boats for the America's cup, or making a formula one racer, faster, with in the design perimeters. There have been some small boats which are definitely "out of the box". Such as ones like the BRABUS SHADOW 500 CABIN...certainly innovation... Any better? Not so sure.

Not helping with your motor decision, but an explanation why there is no R & D in the C Dory line. The boats still sell. Its a small company.
 
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