wintering below freezing on the water

S

SnowTexan

New member
Looking for advice from other crazy cold loving adventurers. Alaskans and Canadians please chime in! Giving serious consideration to wintering in fresh water with air temperatures well below freezing. Water is freshwater but unlikely to freeze beyond a shallow surface coat near shore (very deep lake). There will be significant cumulative snowfall, usually in predictable events. I have winterized my fresh water systems, am running sta-bil in fuel, can possibly keep a heater on shore power, and a small fan in the berth for longer stretches where I am unable to get to the boat Because of road conditions, life happenstances, etc. Any advice on how to best do this is much appreciated. How do I keep bilges from freezing? Rv antifreeze? Am I over thinking it?

Thanks in advance!

Nigel
 
Nigel, Im a full time liveaboard in Boston. WE GET COLD WEATHER.

There are many things to consider but its totally doable. My only concern for you is that you're in fresh water. I don't have any experience with that. Im in the salty Boston Harbor.

I'll wait for the more experienced Brats to chime in!
 
My question is, why do you want to leave it in the water over winter? It's one thing if you are living aboard, you are there to monitor the situation. My main concern would be water freezing around the boat, or inside the engine. Otherwise, as long as your fresh water system is winterized, there really isn't anything inside the boat that matters rather it's on the water or on the trailer. If the boat is not covered, and it gets snow or rain, you then have to worry about any additional weight on the boat, and if the bilge pumps are thawed out or not. Just my two cents. Disclaimer, I winter mine on it's trailer with a full cover in Wisconsin. Colby (P.s., sadly this is a recent picture. Two snow storms this past week, just in time for Halloween. The farmers haven't even gotten the corn down yet. I keep mentioning to my wife she should retire so we can move out of this crap!)

74494139_10157842541349884_468409034517512192_n.jpg
 
A small heater set on low should keep the interior temps above freezing but you need to prepare for a power outage or even some idiot disconnecting your shore power- been there. So winterize your boat with the pink antifreeze just like you would do for an RV out of the water or for your boat out of the water. Lots of threads on that topic here.

But rain water can get in the bilge. The low part of the bilge will be below the water line and if you don't get any heavy ice forming on the water during the winter you should be fine as that means that the water temps are above freezing. Except maybe for the bilge pump which could be above or almost above the water line. Two solutions:

Disconnect power to the bilge pump so if it does freeze internally it won't run and harm it. But that probably isn't smart for a boat sitting in the water. So dump a couple of gallons of antifreeze in the bilge to keep the bilge water from freezing. Check to see if it is pink once it mixes with the existing water and you are probably good down into the low teens, ok for your climate. Then keep an eye on it for dilution due to rainwater getting in and dump another gallon or so of antifreeze in if necessary.

Keeping a boat in the water is more complicated in harsher climates, especially if you have through hulls supplying a marine toilet, A/C, etc. But your 22 doesn't have any below the water line through hulls I believe.

David
 
The corn below my house is not cut either! And starting to look like it may not happen this year. I would like to leave it on the water so I can explore some of the more beautiful places in the state at the quietest time of year, fish, and practice more advanced maneuvers in an empty marina without screwing around with icy ramps and low water levels at launches. The cold in and of itself is not a deterrent for me. I love winter and generally detest heat. If I keep the boat on the water I can use it with ease, and If it’s in the driveway it will be there until the spring thaw. (which happens here about a month later than the nearest good boating waters.) the lake i’m Considering has less than half of the snowfall we get at the house and is less than an hour away. We get our groceries nearby, so short trips out would be doable all winter.
 
I can understand wanting to get out on the water then, if it's not frozen over. My biggest concern would still be if and when the surface of the water freezes over, you have that issue within your outboard and bilge as well. Also how do you plan to keep the snow or ice off your boat, primarily in the cockpit? You could dump RV antifreeze in your bilge, but then any rain or snow melt will dilute that and once the bilge pump pumps it overboard, you are back to where you started. The ideal situation would be to have your boat on a covered boat lift at the dock. Thereby allowing you to keep the boat and outboard out of the water, keep the cockpit dry, but still not needing to worry about an icy ramp.
 
RV antifreeze in the bilge sounds more and more like a good idea. It was 18F last night, but likely a little warmer in the boat in the driveway and much warmer at the water line on lake Chelan. We are in Eastern Washington and it gets pretty cold here (below zero) when fronts blow down from our Northern neighbors, but this is not the norm outside of the valley where we live (low 20’s more common on the water).
 
On my 22, the bilge is not enclosed so I never found water freezing there to be a problem. You might want to lift up the bilge pump so it is not sitting in the water though if it freezes and then tries to run.

You can remove the water in the bilge with a siphon pump or even a turkey baster.

My boat is stored on a trailer. I put in a lower drain plug that lets almost all of the bilge sump water out. The factory drain is too high and leaves at least an inch of standing water in the sump.
 
DavidM":3hivzj4h said:
A small heater set on low should keep the interior temps above freezing but you need to prepare for a power outage or even some idiot disconnecting your shore power- been there. So winterize your boat with the pink antifreeze just like you would do for an RV out of the water or for your boat out of the water. Lots of threads on that topic here.

But rain water can get in the bilge. The low part of the bilge will be below the water line and if you don't get any heavy ice forming on the water during the winter you should be fine as that means that the water temps are above freezing. Except maybe for the bilge pump which could be above or almost above the water line. Two solutions:

Disconnect power to the bilge pump so if it does freeze internally it won't run and harm it. But that probably isn't smart for a boat sitting in the water. So dump a couple of gallons of antifreeze in the bilge to keep the bilge water from freezing. Check to see if it is pink once it mixes with the existing water and you are probably good down into the low teens, ok for your climate. Then keep an eye on it for dilution due to rainwater getting in and dump another gallon or so of antifreeze in if necessary.

Keeping a boat in the water is more complicated in harsher climates, especially if you have through hulls supplying a marine toilet, A/C, etc. But your 22 doesn't have any below the water line through hulls I believe.

David
Click to expand...

These sound like great suggestions!! :thup
 
I'm not sure putting antifreeze in the bilge is a good idea. It will be diluted by any rain or snow melt, and then pumped overboard by the bilge pump, assuming the pump is operable. If the pump isn't working, then you have the issue of how much additional water (rain or snowmelt) can the bilge take on without causing an issue. I would at the very least find a way to cover the cockpit if you are going to leave the boat in the water in freezing temps, just to keep any rain or snow out. The next issue would be water in the outboard at the surface level of the water surrounding it. I don't know how much depth of ice would have to form before you could end up with some cracked internal water passages.
 
We have some marina's on Lake Ontario that allow liveaboards year round on larger boats. They use a bubbler system around their boats to prevent the water from freezing and crushing the hull or other damage.

Sounds like that wouldn't be necessary in your case though.

I can appreciate you quest for solitude. The "weekend" launch ramp has been limiting my desire to go boating more as I age(get grumpier).

Regards,

Rob
 
To expand on Colby's concern of water freezing in the engine; my concern would be running the engine with ice blocking the internal water channels thus burning the rubber water pump impellors and that ends your boating until you pull the boat and the lower engine housing to replace the impellors. So if there is any ice around the boat or has been recently, don't start the engines until you can confirm no ice blockage in the engines water channels; I'm not sure how you would do that confirmation.

Jay
 
C-Green":3ba1wi4g said:
I'm not sure how you would do that confirmation.
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I would assume that as long as the pee stream is good passages are not blocked. Any of the smaller outer passages that may contain ice would not take long thawing with engine running. Impellers would not be hurt as long as they were pumping water.

I wonder if anyone has made a outboard "cozy" to at least cut down on the wind chill factor?

I see guys fishing the Niagara River through the winter here in Ontario. They may be running Evinrudes which can be re winterized quite easily.

The lift idea sounds like a good one as this would let you leave the outboard down for drainage. If you trim it full up while in the water you would risk water collecting around prop hub and freezing. Unless you could reach it to wrap it up in some kind of waterproof cover.

I have fished lakes in northern Ontario this time of year(late Oct.). Often had snow but the water was never froze yet.

Regards,

Rob
 
Thank you for all the suggestions thus far

Definitely hearing the warnings from y’all on the dangers of freezing a block or blowing out pump seals, etc. Leaving motors down, they should drain quickly while warm, and the chance of a 1400 foot deep lake freezing in this climate is remote. Still, air temps are low at night. Bilge pumps are, according to the manual, protected against overload by automatically shutting down when frozen. That covers the bilge, but not the boat. A sloped cockpit mooring cover could keep the bulk of water out of that space, but after sleeping on it again I think my biggest fear above all others is getting early season snow followed by daytime thawing and nighttime freezing. That cycle repeating over a week or two could be a nasty recipe for water intrusion into places it should not be. Going to go down and look at the ramps again today and talk to some fishermen in the area (good advice for Harvey).

Nigel
 
I put an oil heater (1500 watts) in the cabin, on very low. I just discovered this (below) to add to the heater in order to save money & electricity. It's rated at 1800 watts and will come on at 35F and turn off at 45F. No need to have the heat on when it's above 45F here, since I have the Caframo unit in combo with the heater to move the air around. Open all the cabinets, refer etc. I drain the water heater and flush the water system of water. I add pink anti-freeze to the water pump. Finally, I "space bag" all the bedding after washing/drying it completely, including the pillows. Zero mold/mildew in 10 years. One year I didn't get to the water pump soon enough and it was toasted by ice.

https://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovat...locphy=9033382&hvtargid=pla-349273122619&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Caframo-Limi...sprefix=caframo,lawngarden,237&sr=1-7-catcorr

I keep mentioning to my wife she should retire so we can move out of this crap!
Click to expand...
I hear Arizona is very nice this time of year. That's our plan...
 
Rob wrote:

I would assume that as long as the pee stream is good passages are not blocked.
Click to expand...

The problem is you need to start the engine to have a pee stream. If the channels are blocked by ice by the time you determine you don't have a stream it may be too late to prevent a damaged impellor.

Jay
 
Wow this is crazy, California definitely has its downsides but I can't imagine how much more work you guys have in the cold.
Colby: that picture says it all, I assume that you have work obligations that keep you up north, Mexico is full of cruisers from snow country "snowbirds" in the winter.
I am a bit surprised at the lack of interest on our offer to facilitate some buddy boats on a trip down the Sea of Cortez on their C-dorys. We have explored the are many times on other boats and despite the negative coverage, Mexico in Baja is as safe as anywhere else, and warm but not hot in winter and a great C-dory cruising area like the PNW. Thousands of fishermen trail their boats down every year.
Anyway if the Creeks don't rise I will put up some pictures of blue sky, white beach, clear water island anchorages for you all to keep you warm!
 
My brother has begun doing this yearly. He joins a large group of blow-boaters called "The Baja Ha Ha"... He jumps on friend's boats. I told him it sounds terrible. :wink: But he is retired and single, with no commitments anywhere.
 
Dana's daughter has done the Baja Ha Ha several times once on her own boat, they set up some great beach parties on the way down, usually almost 200 boats every year, a great number from the PNW. They head out this week and the weather looks great down to Cabo. When we first sailed down we went by ourselves a month later and were chased south by the first winter systems.
 
Localboy, I used to live in Machias and regularly drove by the Pilchuck yacht club 😂. Is it still there? Will definitely put an oil space heater on board, cover the cockpit, and will keep an eye on things closely if the weather turns. The Sheriff keeps a boat next to where I am currently moored, and they leave their outboards down and the boat ready to roll all winter (Aluminum hull with “Alaskan” bulkhead and twin behemoth motors).
 
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