Will you help me build my boat?

[mgarr682]

The V-berth will sleep two, and has a zippered privacy curtain;...

I think C-Dory has done away with the zippered privacy curtain. My 2013 Angler came with a pleated hanging curtain that slides in a track fastened to the top of the v-berth opening. It's stiff as a board and wants to fold back unless snapped on each side of the opening. I kept snagging it when entering or leaving the v-berth and pulling the little plastic sliders out of the track. I eventually removed it after I got tired of fixing it. If I need to close off the area to keep light out when sleeping I just hang a towel over the opening.

 

[rogerbum]

I've owned both, and fished out of both the 22 cruiser and Angler. Of course you can fish out of a 22 cruiser, but it has a tiny cockpit and longer distance between cockpit and helm (sonar, motor controls, etc.).
As an avid fisherman you know what this will mean when fishing. If the extra comforts of the cruiser facilitate your wife joining you it may well be worth it. Only you can decide your most likely use, but don't be under the illusion that a 22 cruiser is a great fishing boat. Either way you will be getting a good boat with high resale value. Best, Mike

I haven't fished out of the angler but I did plenty of fishing out of my 22 cruiser I would claim that it was no illusion that the was a great fishing boat but I agree that if fishing is the primary goal AND one is not planning on staying on the boat over night as part of the fishing activity, the angler is better. However, once you decide to spend a few nights in a marina (fishing during the day and eating, drinking, BS'ing, sleeping during the evenings and night), the cruiser wins. You have more space for a table and more space for the galley in the cruiser. For me, even for "just fishing", those extra creature comforts made up for the loss in cockpit space. I would also claim that the resale of the cruiser is easier as there is a broader market for a cruiser than an angler.

 

[Sunbeam]

Question: as people with 22 Cruisers load up and hit the road, what is the weight you find yourself pulling?

Thanks to the easily available public scales in Washington and Oregon, I can answer that - at least for my boat, which is probably not unusual.

So, 22 Cruiser. Main and (heavy) kicker. Tankage basically empty but boat packed with gear. Lots of tools, dive gear, etc. Tandem axle galvanized trailer.

Weight on the two trailer axles together = 4180#
Tongue weight = ~330#

So, that's around 4,500#, but I mentally count it as 5,000# just because.... what if I have water/fuel aboard, etc.

I have disc (surge) brakes on both trailer axles (added them after I bought the boat/trailer) and although I don't know what it would have been like without them, I can say that with them, the rig stops as well as it does when I'm not towing (obviously I am still towing, and drive accordingly).

I would guess that low 4,000's# to low 5,000's# is the usual range. Lower end of the scale would be light/empty boat, single-axle trailer (maybe aluminum), single engine, or some combination thereof.

 

[thezebcokid]

Uh oh...looks like I need to join a truck forum as we'll. My current tow capacity is 3,500.

Or, I can keep it in the Sacramento Delta at first, and explore that enormous body of water fully.

 

[Sunbeam]

I think C-Dory has done away with the zippered privacy curtain. My 2013 Angler came with a pleated hanging curtain that slides in a track fastened to the top of the v-berth opening.

Ah, thanks for mentioning that. I wonder if that's specific to the Angler or a change on the Cruiser as well? Doesn't sound like an improvement, from your description, but I have seen where a number of people remove the zippered one anyway. In any case, it wouldn't be too hard to make or have made, if one really wanted one (we could come up with a pattern from an existing one). But... good to know the facts, so thanks.

Uh oh...looks like I need to join a truck forum as we'll. My current tow capacity is 3,500.

I had nearly the same thing: A vehicle that was rated to tow 3,300#. So... the good/bad news is.... yes, a new-to-you vehicle for towing. If you feel like reading more, there are many, many discussions on towing here in the archives. People don't always agree, either (shocking, I know). I'm probably somewhere in the middle of the pack, "philosophy-wise." My basic thoughts:

1) I wouldn't tow my 22 with a super-minimal, underrated vehicle (like what I had or what you have now).

2) I would tow with one on the lower end of the scale, if I were doing short/flat/infrequent tows. What I mean by this is something like an older Honda Pilot that has a shorter wheelbase (less steady towing), and is rated for around 4,500-5,000#. With brakes on the trailer, I would be fine with something like this if not towing extensively.

3) Since I planned on quite a bit of long-distance towing, I got a larger vehicle with a longer wheelbase -- an older 3/4 ton van. It's still not in "Mack truck" territory, as I'm close to max ratings when I'm fully loaded, but it's a 3/4 ton vehicle, so still big and rugged. It's a camper (so already relatively heavy), and I can load it up with everything I can fit into it, a passenger, the boat, and a ton of gear before I do get close to ratings. It tows very comfortably.

4) "Above" me are people who prefer a full-on 3/4 or 1-ton diesel truck.

Although there are exceptions (efficient diesels?), it seems that a lot of vehicles, no matter what their gas mileage when not towing, get around 12 mpg when towing. So if you always tow, that's one thing; on the other hand if you only tow occasionally, then the "better" non-towing-mileage vehicles might give you more relative benefit. I get around 16.5 mpg not towing, and around 12.5 towing (5.4 gas V8 ).

It's a whole new world

Too, as you say, there is a lot to explore in your area. And for short/transport type of tows, it's possible to borrow or rent a vehicle on occasion. When I first bought my boat, I just had my station wagon along and it was not up to towing the C-Dory. But... I needed to move the boat about 60 miles to a place where I was going to store it and have the motor tuned up, etc. What I did was go to a Hertz Equipment Rental (this is completely different from their car rental division). They are set up to rent to contractors, and expect you to tow (vs. regular places that don't expect it and might forbid it). Shortly after arriving there I was pulling out of the lot in a 3/4 ton Ford pickup, all set up for towing. I brought the boat to the new location, then drove back and picked up my car, which was waiting for me in their fenced equipment yard.

 

[AstoriaDave]

Uh oh...looks like I need to join a truck forum as we'll. My current tow capacity is 3,500. Or, I can keep it in the Sacramento Delta at first, and explore that enormous body of water fully.

Danger lurks here. Tow ratings can be misleading. If you anticipate towing in hilly terrain, not even mountainous, I would uprate vehicle choice for a comfortable margin. Sometimes it is not the engine that limits tow capacity, but suspension or transmission. I used a 3.6 L V6 Dodge pickup, which came with a tow package. Suspension and engine were up to the task, although that little gas engine had to work pretty hard on some longer hills. The transmission, not so much, likely because of an inadequate transmission cooler. Come to find out, later, that transmission was not really intended for extended tow duty ... which i learned from my trusted mechanic, not from the manufacturer, or the dealer where I bought the truck new in 2005. Bought it with no real intention of long distance towing, so I was not scoping that out at purchase.

Better to get an older rig with a solid history for that model, and have it checked out by your mechanic. If you later elect for long hauls, that would be the time to seek out your ideal tow vehicle. You will be more savvy about your needs.

 

[westward]

Roger (meant to be):
You may well be right, especially considering the proposed usage of the original poster here. I can only go by personal experience. Even the angler I had wasn't an ideal "pure fishing" boat, but way better than the cruiser, especially with multiple fishers on board. Re resale: I sold my Angler a few years ago in the absolute worst depths of the recession, when you almost couldn't give a boat away, to the first fellow who inquired, and for my full asking price. Sale was to a soon-to-be-retired fisherman who specifically wanted an angler. I suspect the real appeal to him wasn't the added cockpit space and better fishability, but rather the fact it had twin Honda's vs. a single of some other, inferior brand :xlol Happy Holidays! Mike

 

[Sunbeam]

Astoria Dave is right when he says there is a lot to consider when it comes to tow capacity - and a lot that dealers (and even some "experts") aren't familiar with. I found that as a consumer looking for a tow vehicle (and worse, combining it with a camper), I had to learn how to interpret the information on my own.

For example, on tow ratings. They may give a firm figure, such as "5,000#" BUT, that may or may not mean it's up to the task. Essentially it's like a ground tackle system, in that you have to figure out the weakest link and then use that for sizing. I've found the hidden "stopper" to often be the rear axle rating, especially if the vehicle has a long overhang (because then you have to figure in lever arm, etc. between the hitch weight and the axle). But it could be another dimension. Main thing is to understand the numbers, know what weight you'll be towing (and what weight you will have in the tow vehicle), and do your own math vs. trusting a sales person or even a brochure. Plus, as Dave says, do some research on transmission, etc.

I'll give you my vehicle for an example on the weight ratings:
3/4 ton van
GCWR = 13,000# (gross combined, i.e. rig plus trailer)
GVWR = 8,600# (gross vehicle, i.e. tow vehicle max weight)
Published tow rating = 7,500#

Okay, that looks good, right? 7,500# is a lot.

BUT.... like the ground tackle system, there are hidden "stoppers" that you can figure out in advance to see if it's REALLY going to be a good tow vehicle.

Right away, without even weighing anything, you can see that if you had the van loaded to its max, you would only have 4,600# left over for towing (which is not to say you would have it loaded to the max, but it's something you can look at right in the specs).

Additional things to know:
GAWR - front = 3700# (maximum weight allowed on front axle)
GAWR - rear = 5120# (maximum weight allowed on rear axle)

Distance from rear axle to hitch ball = ~52"

Next is to weigh the van alone (but loaded for travel, including driver and passenger, full gear, etc.) This weigh was at a super-loaded state --- but that needs to be possible for my travel style:

Front axle of van alone weighed at scale = 3480#
Rear axle of van alone weighed at scale = 4380#
(note that towing shifts a bit of weight off the front as well as adding to the rear)

Okay, so already we have around 7800#. If you subtract that from the 13,000# gross combined rating, it leaves around 5200#. I'd have to strip the vehicle to ever have the "real" 7,500# available to me. And, check out the rear axle.... there's only around 750# left there. The tongue weight of my trailer is around 330#, BUT, when I figure in the 52" overhang, I get a effective addition to the rear axle of 460#, bringing me up to....

Van plus trailer, weighed at scale:
3340# front axle
4840# rear axle

So, I'm not right up to the max, but I'm getting close. And this is towing a ~4,500# load --- not even CLOSE to the supposed 7,500# tow rating. Which isn't to say that's a lie, because if the van were an empty cargo van, and I was towing something "four down" so there was no tongue weight.... then maybe. But realistically, very few vans/loads will be like that. And yet, looking at the Ford literature, you see that "7,500#" tow rating right off the bat. Not to pick on Ford; I've found it similarly valuable to "do the math" on other potential rigs. Some were eliminated right from the get-go.

Normally, my loads are slightly less than listed above, because when I did that weigh I had a buddy along - a bigger guy and extra gear - but then I'm glad to have a vehicle where I can do that if I want to.

Another note is to check tires. Sometimes it might be good to go up a load range from the originals. The actual hitch (i.e. metal receiver part) is another thing to check - but that can often be beefed up if the other vehicle specs support it.

For the transmission, etc.: I run a Scan Gauge II, which is a nifty little gadget you can plug into an OBDII equipped vehicle (around 199x and later). It reads out transmission fluid temperature, water temperature and a bunch of other handy stuff, so you don't get any sudden surprises. I wouldn't be without it now - really nice to keep an eye on things (with real numbers) as you go along.

You know, in some ways maybe it's good that I bought a used boat. On the one hand, I got a mixed bag - that is, some things I would have chosen just the way they are, and others that are fine but maybe not the exact thing I would have picked (and some surprises when things I wasn't that fond of turned out to be better for me than what I would have chosen). But then too, I didn't have to figure out exactly what I wanted for each detail. That's fun, but also a bit daunting --- are you on information overload yet?