Which heater?

R

Rain

New member
My boat has a butane stove burner but no heater. If it were the other way around - no big deal. I can eat cold sandwiches in a warm cabin, but shivering while eating a warm bowl of stew, not so much!

I see boats with Wallas, Webasco, Espar, etc. but no Sig Marine Cozy Cabins. A friend who fishes in the PNW praises his highly. Any reason they don't seem to be popular with C-Dory owners?
 
Rain":d5jmfc8a said:
I see boats with Wallas, Webasco, Espar, etc. but no Sig Marine Cozy Cabins. A friend who fishes in the PNW praises his highly. Any reason they don't seem to be popular with C-Dory owners?
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I can venture a guess (actually two, since there are two versions of the Cozy Cabin). One of the Cozy Cabins is a propane heater. Therefore it requires the "full meal deal" marine propane installation. Not that there is anything wrong with that (I may very well do one in my boat, and have done propane installations in other boats), BUT, if I do go ahead and and install a propane system, I'd prefer a heater without an exposed flame like the Cozy Cabin. I'd likely go with a P9000 were I looking for a similarly sized/shape propane heater. The P9000 has an "enclosed" flame and is direct vented. It also has a window to view the flame (likely charming).

If you do want to see a Cozy Cabin (propane) on a C-Dory, Sea Wolf Joe did put one on his 1987 22 Cruiser, and there are photos in the albums.

The other Cozy Cabin is a solid fuel heater. I've lived with woodstoves in cabins for years and love them; but probably wouldn't put one on a 22. Fuel could get a bit bulky to store, and (even though it's an outboard), I'm not totally comfortable with a stove wherein you can't "shut off" the fuel supply on a gasoline powered boat. Plus ashes, etc.

I have used a Sigmar 100 diesel heater extensively on a boat, so I like the brand in general. Great heater and we ran it all day every day on the BC coast. But that's a diesel heater, and the stack requirement is longer than I could reasonably provide on my 22. If I were going diesel-ish fuel, I'd likely go with a Wallas 1300 or 1800 (which are actually kerosene but I just mean liquid fuel you can store in a jug) (they do make diesel heaters too though).
 
Well a new thread never hurts either - but there may be some good nuggets in some of the older ones. There was some discussion of variations in the recent Wallas 95 vs. Nordic thread, and/or you could always throw some specific names into the search (if you haven't already) such as Webasto, "Wallas 1300", P9000. These are likely to bring up some discussion (whereas if you only say "Wallas" you'll get a lot about the maintenance of the stove/heater combo models, as they are the typical "Wallas" that came on a lot of C-Dorys).
 
Below is a quote from an avid fisherman who prefer's a propane heater:

"My experience with diesel furnace type heaters is that they are noisy, power hungry, very expensive and fussy with too many moving parts."

Have times changed? Maybe he hasn't tried one recently...?
 
My wife and I are in the PNW and have had, Wallas cooktop, diesel fired, forced air Espar, diesel fired Sigmar, the only source we have yet to have is wood. Next month will be instlling a DT30 Wallas in a newly acquired boat. In the Dorys it is my personal opinion that counter space is just as valuable as cabinet. Most of the time you can find unused cabinet space vs counter. The forced air is in my opinion the best! Inmy research Espar and Webasto are more hungry because of their burn/heating cycles vs Wallas. Beingin the PNW and never winterizing iI can speak to pros and cons of all. The best about forced air is that you'll have less cold spots and better overall distributed heat. In my boat with a sigmar I had two 12v fans that ran all the time when the heater was burning just to help distripute the warmth. It was marginal.
Just as with all things boating, RV and what not. Take your pick and enjoy.

Feel free to pm and we can have a conversation off line.

Cheers
 
If you are serious about heating, for a C Dory the best is going to be a forced air diesel heater. They use "unused" cabinet space under the counter. They will put the warm air where you want it. A heater in one corner is not of much value. I have had a number thru the years, including one of the larger standing, stack type diesel--and it took extra fans, and still not as good as a forced air (or hydronic).
 
Rain":t4lpku4e said:
Below is a quote from an avid fisherman who prefer's a propane heater:

"My experience with diesel furnace type heaters is that they are noisy, power hungry, very expensive and fussy with too many moving parts."

Have times changed? Maybe he hasn't tried one recently...?
Click to expand...

I don't think my Wallas is noisy, power hungry or has too many moving parts, but is does have some maybe finicky electronic computer stuff. When I use it it keeps the cabin warm, and since I don't use it for cooking, It keeps my log book in place the rest of the time.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I have one and it works well.

A previous owner mounted it under the counter and removed the rear cabinet door and cut a large hole in the counter. It gravity feeds from a tank mounted just below the starboard cockpit window.

It heats the boat well, sometimes too well as it could heat a much larger space. I don't use fans, I just turn it up. The comromise is that it is uncomfortably warm near the heater when it is nice and cozy in the v berth.

I intend to change the setup, and have considered a forced air heater/cooktop, but will probably keep this for now. I will put it between my sliding and fixed starboard window, and rig a fuel tank on an unborn radar arch, along with supports for the stove pipe, and the dinghy, keeping the two separated.

I cook on a portable butane burner. It works well.

I would rather have a forced air heater with a duct run directly to the v berth.
 
Sounds like he has the "Cozy Cabin" mounted in a cabinet with the door removed, or should I say a "locker" with the "hatch" removed? :)
 
I actually have a Fab-All 120. This is the same unit as the Sig 120, Dickson 120, and Balmar 120... and maybe others. I am not 100% certain, but I believe that Dickson came out of a split between Sig and Fab-All some time ago.

I've seen the Dickson and the Sig, as well as my Fab All. They are identical to my eyes and fingers.

They are a simple, reliable stove that never seems quite right as I'm lighting it (soak a piece of toilet paper in fuel, pour a little into the burn chamber, light your TP and drop it in, let it get warm and send it fuel from the tank), but once lit it just keeps cranking out heat.

I was told I wouldn't be able to use it while underway above displacement speed, but have not found that to be the case.

I really like it a lot, but I would never have bought it myself, and probably won't get the same type if I need to replace it, but will keep using it until it needs to be rebuilt or replaced. Then I'll probably get a wallas 22dt or similar.

http://www.go2marine.com/product/20282F ... eater.html
 
I am not 100% certain, but I believe that Dickson came out of a split between Sig and Fab-All some time ago.
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Dickinson has been making boat heaters since 1932. Could have been born out a split before then? I remember a couple of boats I sailed on in the late 1940's which had Dickinson heaters.
 
Kushtaka":2xtxop6p said:
They are a simple, reliable stove that never seems quite right as I'm lighting it (soak a piece of toilet paper in fuel, pour a little into the burn chamber, light your TP and drop it in, let it get warm and send it fuel from the tank)
Click to expand...

That brought back memories of lighting the Sig 100 (smaller version of yours) all one summer in BC. Always the little piece of toilet paper to get it going, and then it would crank along all day.
 
thataway":pkrp5zzr said:
I am not 100% certain, but I believe that Dickson came out of a split between Sig and Fab-All some time ago.
Click to expand...

Dickinson has been making boat heaters since 1932. Could have been born out a split before then? I remember a couple of boats I sailed on in the late 1940's which had Dickinson heaters.
Click to expand...
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I really don't know and I'm curious. It seems there was once a relationship between Sig and Fab-All, as well as Sig and Dickson. I believe that they all sell and identical stove with an identical model number is likely a red herring and has nothing to do with any history, but if anyone has any info I'd be interested to learn about it. The interwebs are a bit contradictory.
 
Rain":1zj2m83r said:
Below is a quote from an avid fisherman who prefer's a propane heater:

"My experience with diesel furnace type heaters is that they are noisy, power hungry, very expensive and fussy with too many moving parts."

Have times changed? Maybe he hasn't tried one recently...?
Click to expand...

That's pretty much my experience, BUT the benefits are worth the cost and frustration.

Forced air furnaces are awesome. Nearly instant heat. With proper installation, there are not cold spots in the boat. And a forced air furnace can be plumbed to bring in fresh air, drying out the cabin in the process.

I have a Wallas cooktop in the C-Dory and don't like it. Maintenance intensive, expensive, and lots of cold spots. The Espar in the Nordic Tug is power hungry, expensive, and had a few problems when I bought the boat, but it hasn't required any maintenance for the last 18 months or so, although it's due for a cleaning.

Congrats on the boat, by the way!
 
It is all your fault I am buying a boat. It was that nice ride you and "Retriever" took Gloria and me on! :)

Planning to pick it up next Tuesday. The weather is not conducive to trailing this week, plus Gloria has me otherwise engaged!

If you had a 22' or 23' C-Dory with a stove burner but no heater, what would you put in it for a heater?
 
Rain":1j6n1fdk said:
It is all your fault I am buying a boat. It was that nice ride you and "Retriever" took Gloria and me on! :)

Planning to pick it up next Tuesday. The weather is not conducive to trailing this week, plus Gloria has me otherwise engaged!

If you had a 22' or 23' C-Dory with a stove burner but no heater, what would you put in it for a heater?
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Espar, Webasto, or Wallas, in no particular order. The smallest forced air model from any of these companies should provide more than enough heat.

The internet is full of horror stories about each of these brands. Scan Marine is the only game in town for Wallas. They're helpful but if something breaks they're your only source of parts and service. Espar and Webasto are used in trucks and RVs too, so they're easier to get parts for in my experience. Sure Marine in Seattle is the Webasto dealer and they're outstanding.

In the past Wallas has claimed to be more energy efficient, but I don't know if that's still the case.

You can save a lot of money by buying a truck version of an Espar or Webasto and sourcing the marine specific hardware yourself.
 
I put a D30 ( Wallas) in a prior boat I had, it was finicky with fuel source ( carbon build up), sometimes would not fire up, and you had only one choice for parts or service ( no options ).
Six months ago I installed a Webasto EVO 40, runs on diesel, has been working great, cost $1400 dollars (truck version), the internet is full of choices for parts, and is 15k btu vs 10.5k btu. No cold spots, and unlike the Wallas it is not marginal to heating a 25 foot boat.
Personally, I would not buy a Wallas. The Webasto is a far better heater.
alan
 
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