When to stay in port!

J

Jeanie P

New member
:oops:
Tuesday night, marine forecast ok. I took a 60 mile trip down the Potomac River 9-11 knots on calm water- just beautiful!!! Very tired when I pulled into the dock for top off gas when another boater was talking about bad weather the that night and next few days. Too tired to turn around and go back so I got a slip.

Next morning, my wind gage has 15 mph steady winds gusting to 20 from NW. Small craft advisory. Not having much provisions or clothing- (it was 82 F. Wednesday, shorts,tee shirt- windbreaker and 20 degree drop in temp.) I decided I could make it back if I went slow. :thdown
BAD decision.

Where I was the Potomac is like the letter 'S' on its left side with the middle going west to east and the top goin in a north-north east direction.. I started out traveling east to west up-river hugging the north side and dodging crab pots but doing 5-6 knots. When I turned the corner to go north, all heck broke loose. :shock:

Advisory called for 1-2'waves but these seemed to be closer to 2-3 and running close together and short wave length. To me, they were like little sunamis. :smilep

This part of the river has a somewhat straight line for 16-18 miles to northeast. Plenty of time to build up the waves. I was down to 3.5 4 knots and still being dropped hard and making hardly any headway. I decided to try and tack by going across river at angle and take the waves at 45 degrees. All this did was make me roll violently side to side.

I decided to bail out and head for cover ( DUH )which was across the river in the same direction I was going wnw. The river is wide here so it took a long time getting across dodging crab pots and trying to keep control.

Prior to docking I put it into neutral to flip my fenders over the side and the wind pushed me 180 degrees before I could even get back to the helm.

I called my wife at work and she took the time off and drove 40 miles to pick me up.The Jeanie P is tied up at a transit slip until Sunday when the weather is supposed to be better.

A lesson learned. Prepare for worst case.
Question- I read on this board about how well the C-22 takes rough weather but what do you consider rough weather?

Sorry for the long post but maybe another newbie can learn from my predicament.

Allan
 
Allan,

Question- I read on this board about how well the C-22 takes rough weather but what do you consider rough weather?
Click to expand...

From my very limited experience I can tell you what I think it means...

Rough water is rough water and being in a 'seaworthy' C-Dory isn't going to change that. What I believe the comment that a CD-22 or any C-Dory can handle rough water is that you don't feel like the boat is going to sink! I've been in other boats in bad conditions and I could've snapped a pencil with my sphincter because I didn't think the boat could handle the water. A C-Dory is slow in rough water and that takes a lot out of the captain and crew because it takes time to reach shelter, but being tired is a lot different than feeling like the next wave is going to either swamp the boat or breach the boat. These little boats bob around like a cork in rough water, but CORKS FLOAT!

You learned a good lesson. Enjoy the boat.
 
Allen

Went through similar scenario many times now. In conditions you described its not whether the boat can take it. Rest assured it will. Its instead what you are willing to subject yourself and passengers to. No use getting beat up unless there is need. Only once have we been in a situation where we actually wondered if the boat could take it and that was this year in 30+ mph winds on the Lynn Canal, Alaska Inland Passage. And even then we would have liked to have had a more experienced person along to see if our judgement was correct. Wouldn't want to turn it over trying to see just what it could take.

Jay
 
Allen, you must have been below Quantico, down near the 301 Bridge. Have been out there in very rough weather before but in a sailboat. We're down near the mouth, I can look across the river from the end of my pier (in a creek) and see Point Lookout.

Come way down next time, we're sheltered here. Have been out there with 6' waves before, out in the Bay. Two years ago, we came up from Portsmouth, 6-8 footers. Slamming pretty hard. My copilot (a Navy RADM) slipped in the passageway when the table collapsed and suffered a compound fracture of his right ankle. We had to put into the York River and called the rescue squad. They operated on him that night in Newport News.

Glad you made it back OK, don't let it sour you on the boat.

Charlie
 
Lynn canal, I don't like that place. Every time I've been through there it was rough from the lighthouse near Haines for about 10 miles towards Juneau. Once I had the bow into the blue and prop out of the water on every wave for awhile, I told my wife that we were just fine but I was so puckered I couldn't go for a week after that.
 
Bearbait

Yes, it was in the lighthouse area that we felt compelled to make the turnabout. It was also the only time going with the waves felt even worse than going into them. Was towing the Mokai to boot and was amazed it survived. The real pucker factor was making the turn without tangling the tow rope to the Mokai in the props.

And I too was giving similar words of assurance to the wife, while actually feeling just as you described.

Jay
 
Sarge, my feelings exactly. These little boats can handle the rough seas, bobs like a cork like Sarge said. However, in my limited experience, I've tried taking the waves head on rather than tacking, probably for the exact reason you stated about getting the boat sideways. We just tried to keep moving forward, up and over the waves, adjusting the throttle the whole time. You do eventually get to your destination, it's just no fun.

Probably the best lesson we've learned over the past three seasons of boating is to never have a hard and fast return date if possible. We're lucky in our jobs that if we planned to come home on a Sunday and the weather and sea conditions do not justify it, we just stay in port another day until the seas subside. The next day is usually alot better.

Peter
 
Jazzmanic":22833n8q said:
Probably the best lesson we've learned over the past three seasons of boating is to never have a hard and fast return date if possible. We're lucky in our jobs that if we planned to come home on a Sunday and the weather and sea conditions do not justify it, we just stay in port another day until the seas subside. The next day is usually alot better.

Peter
Click to expand...

Very good advice.

This is exactly the reason for us not planning another Alaska trip untill after we are retired. To many times we have felt compelled to push on due to time constraints when we should have waited. Feel we may have pushed our portion of luck to the limit.

Jay
 
Last year my son and I got caught in the sound in a 20pmh wind against a tide. the waves where 4 to 6 and very short spacing. we where not making head way and getting slammed on every drop off the back of very wave. I was taking two feet of water over the bow rail. Even with all that going on I was not worried with getting swamped or breached. It was not fun and we ended up turning backand going to everet witht the wind. What I have found other times is that if you know the wind in going against the tide WAIT. Wait for the tide to turn with the wind, you will still have waves and wind to run into but it will not be half as bad as before. this has helped us many time in the san juans.

http://www.shearwaterkayaks.com/item_de ... ltlas.html

this book has been of great help figuring out what the tides and current, two different thing, are doing in the san jauns. a must have for both cruisers and fisherman. I wish there was a book of equel content for the sound.
 
Charlie - Your right. I overnighted at Goose Bay Marina off of Port Tobacco and finally gave up and slipped it a Aquia Creek.

Thomas- I was about 2.5 hours into the ebb tide with the wind running with it. I hate to think how high the waves would have been if it was flooding !

Allan
 
Hi Folks,

I have encountered heavy weather on two occasions, my trip from New Bedford to Nantucket in 25 + Knots wind, and when I ran into Heavy winds on Lake Wineesaukee in New Hampshire.

After I went through Woods Hole, I found the waves managable coming on my port bow. It was not a jumping around situation because I could play the waves. The boat had a constant lean so my right foot was on the topsides to give me satability.

In New Hampshire, the waves were very short and big and I was slammed about until I made it to a leeward area. Very uncomfortable.

I think the secret is as long as we don't have to go directly into the wind, we can manage.

The other secret, do it alone. Situations like this could get your crew disembarking your yacht forever. I think most boaters are fair weather sailers. That is why the Erie Canal area is such a great cruising area in the Fall. Even bad weather isn't to bad.

Fred
 
The key here is that the wind was brisk in a relatively shallow river, and perhaps wind against current, which steepens the seas up even more.

The C Dory will take the seas, but short steep seas are likely to cause pounding and it is no fun.

You were wise to take shelter and go to Plan "B". We have been in some real blows and heavy weather--and do to position (like half way across the Atlantic, or schedules) we had no choice but to press on in our cruising boats. There are many tricks to use in heavy weather.

With the CD 22 and 25 if you have trim tabs, and keep the motor trimmed all of the way down, (a Permatrim foil helps), you will allow the bow shape to puch into these steep waves better. We came back from Catalina about a week ago into fairly heavy seas and wind, when there were a number of "maydays" from the high winds and seas in the 25--and a 90 footer sprung a plank. The CD 25 was a bit uncomfortable at times, but the boat kept on going--and was perfectly safe.
 
Sometimes you just have to know when to say when. A long fetch, narrow and shallow water, wind against current - all adds up to "ugly."

We have been out in conditions that were uncomfortable, but I've not felt unsafe in the C-Dory to this point. Like Dr. Bob, we have used the trim tabs and motor trim to find the boat attitude that gives us the best ride. Sometimes you have to increase speed a bit to allow the trim tabs to be more effective... seems counter-intuitive, but it often helps to experiment with trim and speed to see what works best in the given conditions.

It would be interesting to be able to go back to similar conditions that we experienced early on with our C-Dory to see how our comfort level has increased.

Better to tuck into a safe port, Allen, than to push on and be miserable. It's sad to see a couple give up boating because an incident has made one or the other not want to go back out on the water. There is an old flying saying, "Time to spare? Go by air." It applies to boating, as well.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim makes a very good point--even though we owned a CD 22 for 4 years, there was/is a learning curve on the CD 25. Even with similar hull forums, the boats behave differently--after a little experimentation, we feel that the 25 defianately gives a better ride than the 22, but our first impressions were that they were about the same, since we were handling the boat as though it was a 22. Then you try a Tom Cat--entirely different--in that boat, speed up to get the better ride.
 
There's something unique about the Potomac, especially where it feeds into Chesapeake Bay. I travielled through there in Na Waqa in 2005, going north. Leaving Portsmouth, I holed up in a marina on the south shore, and when I got up the next morning the forecast was winds from the northwest 15-20 knots, gradually subsiding through the day. I've done a lot of boating on Wisconsin's Lake Winnebago, which is 30 miles long and about 15 miles wide at its widest point. I figured the 18-mile wide Potomac rivermouth was on about the same scale as Lake Winnebago, and 15-20 knots of wind there has never been a problem for me, so I took off, headed for Solomons Island. I'd neglected to take tides into consideration. Add an incoming tide from the southeast against that 15-20 knots of wind out of the northwest, and it was an entirely different affair than little old Lake Winnebago. Halfway across, ahead of me about a mile, I saw a power cruiser about 50 feet long turn around and head back. I was too scared to turn sideways to those waves, and kept plodding along at about 4-6 knots. The closest description I can give is, it was like being in a washing machine. Everything loose in the cabin ended up in a pool of water on the floor, including a box of loose music cds. I made it across, under the lee of the northern riverbank, and waited in a small bay a couple hours until the winds died a little, then plodded on up to Solomons. Not an experience I'd repeat, but it definitely taught me a lesson about winds and tides together.
 
When you're the only small boat out there, you're constrained by the waves in what direction you're able to go, you're falling off every wave and the bow's digging in, you're popping the propeller out of the water regularly, you're too far committed to safely turn around, you know that a motor shutdown likely means death, you have the handheld VHF's lanyard around your wrist, when you're in the troughs, all you can see ahead are powerful walls of water; and you tell everyone on board (all of whome already have life jackets on) to be quiet so you can concentrate, you know it's too rough and you've made a mistake by being out there. I've had several such experiences on Rosario Strait, in both a 19' Glasply and our old 22' Cruiser. The Cruiser felt safer hands-down due to lack of violent sideways rolling. I don't have the stomach for this kind of nonsense anymore, and I flat-out refuse to do it. "Need to get back for work tomorrow", or a guest's "need to get back" were usually the reasons I did it. As a boater you develop a sense for the weather and the tides/currents in your boating zone. You know not only the current conditions but also the trends. You keep the engines in top shape, the gas tanks full, and the gas filter clean. Final thought: I think people tend to overestimate the size of waves. a 3-4' confused wave is a pretty good obstacle for a 22' C-Dory. You really don't want to be out in any more than that. Mike.
 
Westward makes another excellent point--about the fuel filters. The heavy seas stur up sediment, and plug up filters. I had to change out ours in Powell (some form the old fuel in the boat--we probably didn't get all of the very bottom out when we were draining and "polishing" the tank. I showed my son how to drain the racor on our Catalina trip.

We have helped a number of boats which went offshore and got caught in heavy weather, the sediment in the fuel tank plugged up the filters--and often the spares ran out, or the person ran the batteries down trying to restart the engine.

But in all of our trawlers and long distance boats we had parallel filter systems, with a cross over valve so we could change out filters or drain the bowls, while the engine was still running on the other filter. I don't remember this being discussed in the C Dory forum, but certainly might be a point of consideration. You need only two, 2 way valves, so you can isolate either filter--and a second Racor--(which we prefer).
 
Educational to hear all your experiences. 'Makes us all think about getting everything tied down and better organized.

One important thing to remember about getting into trouble on a boat is that, due to the adrenalin (pucker factor) flowing, our brains run out of energy quickly. One book I read said the most common thing turning a tight situation into tragedy is when the skipper has exhausted all his blood sugar, he gets tired, and his thinking process muddled. They say that is when the real trouble starts because you cannot accurately assess and react or plan.

So, they recommend you keep energy bars, nuts, snacks, NOT JUST SUGAR, and some drink, even bottled water, handy at the helm in order to keep replacing the nutrients rapidly drained by such a stressful situation.

Of course, as Dr. Bob and others mention, clean out and drain the water from those filters regularly. One of our engines went down from water in the fuel filter, just as a big storm hit while we were crowded into a narrow passage under a bridge... I really felt dumb for not having drained that water out!

John
 
thataway,
Excellent point on your parallel filter set-up.
That is on my list for TO DO THINGS next spring.
I have only one Racor being feed from 2 different tanks through a 2 way valve to one motor. My emergency back-up now is a new fuel hose set-up that can be hooked directly from either tank to the motor bypassing the valve/filter etc. But the motor will stop when doing that. Not a good plan.
Thanks again for your input to this site.
Jack
 
Jack, I would probably just put a Sierra, or Fram filter in the secondary line, until you get a Racor--or other high end filter.

The risks of getting "crud" into the engine filter is too great--and although it is tough enough to work on inboard filters during heavy weather, it becomes dangerous to have to work on a filter which is under the cowling of an outboard in heavy weather.

My probelm with the Sierra or Mercruiser etc types of filters, is that they don't seem to be as consistant in trapping debris as the higher end Racors.

Last winter I was out in my 18 foot CC--I had trained the Sierra a few days before, and it was heavy weather--but all of a sudden the engine began to sputtter--there was crud which had gotten into the engine filter under the outboard cowling--and I had to clean this at sea....I changed to a Racor.
 
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