What would you like to see on the new C-Ranger R25 tug?

Thanks for posting the pics you took at the Ranger factory, Pat. That’s great, especially for those of us with boats on order that don’t live in the area. It was interesting to see the shot of the stern thruster and rudder (different than on the R21).
Nobody at C-Ranger has been following this thread, and probably won't because they don't have time…
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Understandable, they have their hands full. OTOH, I think a number of valid issues have already been expressed on this thread that would be easier to deal with before tooling is completed. It’s possible that the Livingstons’ have already noted the same things others have here and have solutions in the works. If not, I hope they get a chance to take a peak at this thread before things are too far along.
…..but Dave explained that the idea for a side door would pretty much be physically impossible on this boat with its 8.5' beam - it would work, he though, on a similar boat that was perhaps 29' feet long with a 10.5' beam….
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Hummm? Here’s how they did it on the 24’ Alaskan trader with an 8’ beam which someone mentioned earlier. Note the bottom of the door. Interesting.
http://www.trawlersmidwest.com/images/DSC00110.jpg
I think a 3/4 height sliding door, with the bottom of the door at the height of the helm step, would work too. I wonder why Dave thought a door wasn’t possible.
The one impression I did come away with is that there really did not appear to be room for them to be working on two C-Ranger R25s in the shop at the same time....Dave said there are now 15 orders for C-Ranger R25s...I wonder if some part of the production of this boat will by necessity move to some C-Dory facility.
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15! That’s great! That would be four more since the show. I think orders will really take off once they have a few happy owners with boats in the water (like myself, of course). I’m sure C-Dory management will figure out how to handle the demand. That’s a good problem to have.
 
Dave explained that the idea for a side door would pretty much be physically impossible on this boat with its 8.5' beam
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From the line drawing, it looks like there is a molded in side extension of the consol to the right of the helm seat, and the engine controls are mounted on this. They probably don't want to add a door because it would require an extensive rework of that plan. Someone ought to show them a picture of the side door on the Alaska Tug, though, cause it would sure be a nice addition. The layout of my 27 pilothouse is similar to what they are doing on the C-Ranger, and single-handing is tough due to the long commute between the helm and the cockpit. Unless conditions are perfect it's real hard to get it to sit still next to the float long enough to get a line attached.

Jim
 
and single-handing is tough due to the long commute between the helm and the cockpit.
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It would be nice to have access via a doorway, however with the bow and stern thrusters I think you will have no problem in putting this baby to bed along any dock single handed. Probably impress the dickens out of those on the dock.
 
From the line drawing, it looks like there is a molded in side extension of the consol to the right of the helm seat, and the engine controls are mounted on this. They probably don't want to add a door because it would require an extensive rework of that plan.
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Exactly right, Jim (see the pic of the helm I've added to my album). The controls and control cables would have to be moved to the console.
 
I have been watching this post and taking notes regarding ideas for the 25 C-Ranger. In fact John Livingston was meeting with me regarding some ideas and questions that were brought up while Pat was meeting with Dave Livingston. I will continue to monitor the ideas and discuss them with John and Dave. I know that several have already been instituted. We will keep you updated as the project progresses.

Jeff
 
David,

I think what Jim and others are concerned about is, “unless conditions are perfect it's real hard to get it to sit still next to the float long enough to get a line attached.” It seems to me the next best thing to cutting a door in would be to have a wireless remote for the bow and stern thrusters. That should make keeping the boat snug up against the dock while a line was attached quite easy, even when single-handing.
 
.....The layout of my 27 pilothouse is similar to what they are doing on the C-Ranger, and single-handing is tough due to the long commute between the helm and the cockpit. Unless conditions are perfect it's real hard to get it to sit still next to the float long enough to get a line attached.
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Oops! You are correct, John, Jim mentions "float", Anna Leigh said "dock". Either way, I think drifting away from the object you're trying to run a line to while you walk from the helm to the cockpit is the issue he was concerned with, unless I'm not reading that right.
 
Sea... no big deal, but it can be quite comical to watch someone bobbing up and down and around trying to match the up, down and around bobbing of that little buoy with the ring on it... esp with any sea going, or at nite. Seems like you go up and it goes down, and trying to hold the boat near while performing all this bobbing is just added fun. John
 
As of right now, I am going with the 80 hp. That may change when I see the results of the actual on-the-water testing. From what I’ve heard, the test hull will be fitted with a 125 hp diesel so that they can get a complete picture of just how much power is required to move what load. The spec sheet is predicting that the 110 hp will give you a 2 mph higher cruise (18 vs. 16 mph) and a 3 mph higher top speed (21 vs. 18 mph). Rumor has it that the actual numbers may be better than that. As far as economy is concerned, I was given a range of about 290 miles with the 80 hp (3.5-4.0 gph, 68 gallons - holding back a 10% reserve, 16 mph cruise). I don’t have consumption rates on the 110 hp. The price difference between the two engines is $3-4K. My preliminary decision was based on price. I didn’t think the slight performance increase justified the price jump. I’d rather spend that money on electronics, etc. That being said, there really isn’t enough info available to make an informed decision on this yet. Other stuff to throw into the mix:
 Both engines are turbocharged. The 110 hp is also intercooled.
 Apparently these are brand new (this year) models. Uprated revised versions of earlier 75 hp and 100 hp Yanmars featuring more horsepower at lower rpm.
 The previous Yanmar series used the same block for everything from a naturally aspired 54 hp up to a turbocharged 125 hp.
 
OK, here is what I consider to be a major concern with the layout of the R25. With the great amenities provided in the cabin, this boat is obviously intended to be used for occasional weekend or longer stays. The problem I see is that the V-berth is quite small. The V-berth on the CD 25 Cruiser actually seems larger. Of course the forward berth on the TomCat 255 is waaaay bigger. To make the most of the available space on the R25, I would like to see the filler cushion run straight across as shown (not angled as was suggested as a possibility), and the back side of the starboard console made to match the port console (eliminating the hanging locker).
concept.gif

If this isn’t possible because of controls that need to be mounted in the console, cut it back and angle it (forehead friendly) as shown in this pic of the starboard console on a Parker.
Back_of_console_on_Parker.jpg

When my wife and I were deciding on which of two boats to buy, we came this close (holding thumb and finger very close together) to eliminating the R25 because of the size of the V-berth. At 5’ 11’’ and 5’ 8”’s tall, we are not going to be the largest people that will be considering this boat.
 
Joe - the C-Ranger has the engine heater for heat while cruising, and I think the Wallas will be fine for most nights, it is just those ~20° F nights that concern me a bit. Not enough to spend a bunch more money, especially now that we have that neato Travasak...


Sea Wolf":1dpqzsfi said:
Hey Patrick-

After your concern about the Wallas D-125 being marginal for heating the v-berth of the CD-25, would you think a bigger heater like a Toyotomi forced air diesel heater or something similar might be a better choice? Joe.
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I think Jim is speaking of tying to a mooring buoy... difficult to tie a bobbing boat to a bobbing ball eye. John
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Actually, I was talking about tying up to a "dock" (the thing is - in "correct" marine terminology, a "dock" means the piece of water where the boat is floating while tied up to a wharf or pier, while a wharf, pier or float is what you tie up to - the floating piers in marinas are correctly called floats - not docks. In common usage though, of course it's a dock.) So - my point was that while the bow and stern thrusters should make getting up next to your dock simple enough, if there is an adverse wind or current, getting it to stay put for the 10 or 15 seconds it takes to get from the helm station to your lines is impossible - it'll drift away. If you could just step out of a side door, grab the line and step onto the dock, though, that would only take a second or two, and you should be able to get it to stay put for that long. If you have a crew - either on board or on the dock, it's no problem, but sooner or later you'll end up needing to do it single handed, and in that one situation the side door will pay for itself. I haven't fallen in yet trying to jump a rapidly widening gap between the boat and the dock, but it's been a near thing once or twice. Certainly the same thing would go for mooring single handed. A side door would cut the time from the helm to the bow significantly.

Jim
 
Aiviq":36cn7tr3 said:
Actually, I was talking about tying up to a "dock" (the thing is - in "correct" marine terminology, a "dock" means the piece of water where the boat is floating while tied up to a wharf or pier, while a wharf, pier or float is what you tie up to - the floating piers in marinas are correctly called floats - not docks. In common usage though, of course it's a dock.)
Jim
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Very interesting, Jim. I'd never discerned the difference in terminology before. (Must admit, I looked it up and you are 100% correct!). Thanks. Who says I'm too old to learn anything? :wink
 
I think we land locked areas and even some of the Gulf of Mexico must not understand that usage. To us, a dock is the thing you tie to, the thing you pay dock fees for, the thing the dockmaster manages, the dock manufacturing company from which I bought the docks for my pond....

Anyway, thanks Steve for the drawing that sizes up the forward bunk problem in a glance.

On another area, if one passed on the decorative roof antenna, would the fiberglass smokestack interfere with a roof mounted radar unit? ...or would one have to buy an extension mount?

Also, this is probably naive, but the photo of the aft thruster shows it just Port of the rudder pintle. Would having the rudder structure so close effect the starboard thrusting action?

Thanks for all your help, John
 
Does anyone know the type of fiberglass construction that is used in the C-Ranger? Does it have fiberglass covered wood bearm or is it wood free? Is it Balsa core like the C-Dories? John
 
Another question.... what will the aft cabin door be like? Will it be all glass, daimond glaze? or whatever that is.... like the TomCat and CD25?
 
Gack! Do folks really think all this extra hardware (bow and stern thrusters, remote control, etc) is neccessary (or even desirable) on a 25' boat? I would think that in most cases a single line off of a midship cleat could be used to hold the boat close enough to a dock, long enough to get stern and bow lines in place - no running to and fro required. This is how I normally handle my 27' 9000# sailboat and while it may not be obvious I suspect given the rigging it has as much or more windage than the R-25 (ie, blows off as fast).

Besides, I don't think one of these boats will have any problem attracting both attention and willing dock hands when entering/leaving a marina! :teeth[/quote]
 
I'm with you Ken. That yanmar is right handed and really pulls to the right in reverse. Point the bow towards the float and pour the coal to it in reverse. As the boat lunges toward the float you step off. I have done it with sailboats up to 48', and they definitely have windage. Docking with a single screw, weight is a good thing.
 
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