Western Erie Canal - round trip?

After trying several days ago to sign up for notices to mariners from canals.ny.gov, I never got the email to allow confirmation from them. I'm trying their alternate confirmation process now, but an email with their instructions hasn't yet arrived.

Earlier this winter I ordered the NY Canals Cruising Guide. When an online order failed to go through, I sent a check by mail. In return I got a brand new 2006 edition -- in other words, 11 years old by the time it came. Nothing on the website said that the available edition would be an older one. Lots of things must have changed sine 2006.

My opinion of the NY canals management is, shall we say, now a great deal below average.

Any suggestions for getting up to date information will be welcome.
 
Hi, is it Richard?

I saw your comments on the Erie Canal and the managements' responsiveness. I checked our copy of the Cruising Guide for the Canal, and our copy is also from 2006. We ordered ours a few years back. I was thinking of ordering a new copy, looks like it is not worth it-if that's the copy you just received.

As far as the notice to Mariners is concerned, my wife signed us up on Facebook awhile back (I am not a Facebook user!). Our last alert came on January 31st (Here's the address for the notice we received:cantransalert@canals.ny.gov Not sure if this will help you. I suspect there will be very few notices issued until the canal opens this Spring. A few years back, when we were members, and active in the US Power Squadron, we attended a Conference and the Chief Engineer (I believe that was his job title) gave a detailed talk on the canal. I was looking for his contact info for you, since he is an enthusiastic supporter of the system. But with my paper filing 'system', I could not lay my hands on it. If I do find his contact info, I'll post it here.

Here's my personal 'editorial' comments regarding the canal system, for what they're worth. I know the Canal System is under quite a bit of financial pressure, since it is heavily subsidized by NYS, and I expect there will be additional financial pressure this year, due to a forecasted, large, budget deficit for NY. The Canal is not a money maker for the state, by any stretch. So, hopefully you will receive a response from your inquiries directly to the Canal System. In any event, the canal operators are friendly and helpful, and the towns along the canal are very welcoming to boaters-at least that has been our experience.
Jack Howell
 
Don't know how the canal system works in NY, but maybe they need to have each town along the way "sponsor" their section of the canal, rather than having the state pay for it all. Not just the local docking facilities and amenities, but the whole maintenance for that section.
 
If it wasn't for NYS, I think the system would collapse under the cost. For a small town that happened to have a lock facility to maintain, the cost would probably sink their town budget when the lock needed an upgrade. I recall some pretty large $ amounts being referenced at the presentation I attended. It was in the $millions for the rebuild of a single lock undergoing a rebuild. The concrete wall surfaces of the locks take quite a beating, between the water and the winters in upstate NY. Even though they drain the canal in the winter, it's pretty rough. The state assumes that cost, not the individual town.
Jack
 
When we went through the Eire Canal in 2001, I had a tour of the canal maintenance shop. Fascinating, but the important information was that the railroad which runs along the canal AND the canal were under the same organization. The railroad made and provided the money and the canal benefited.

As I understood it, if the canal had to turn a profit, or even pay its own way, it would be shut down, as its only for recreational use, no commercial traffic.

Boris
 
Actually, the Canal Corp is now under the NYS Power Authority. The Canal was under the NYS Thruway management before it was moved to the Power Authority in the last year or so. It was moved from the Thruway Authority because it was too much of a financial burden on the Thruway, and it was literally causing the toll rates to rise on the road. As you can imagine, commercial truckers and others were not too happy about that.

As far as commercial traffic on the canal goes, there is still some commercial traffic, and the Canal Authority welcomes it. There is just not much of it, which is understandable today, with the NYS Thruway and railroads literally sharing the right of way with the canal. The canal was built on the early 1800's, predating the railroads. There is great history connected to the canal, and it paved the way for lots of growth in our country. I understand the NYS Constitution stipulates the operation of the canal. So, the state won't shut down the Erie Canal unless it changes the state constitution. That could always happen, but it would involve all the politics and voting with changing that.

Based on what I see on our western end of the canal, there is lot more activity on the Canal path/trailway than there is on the water. It's my opinion that NYS now looks upon the canal as a significant piece of our history, and they see it as an investment in helping economic growth along the canal in upstate NY. Lots of restaurants and shops have popped up along the canal. As a matter of fact, we're meeting friends for dinner tonight at one of those places! 200 years ago the canal was a huge financial success, paying for itself within a few years of opening. I think we all recognize those days are long gone. Even though we have boated on the canal, I could understand if it had to shut down operations if it was simply decided by financial viability. I believe NYS understands that, and that is one of the reasons the state keeps the fees for boaters at a reasonable level. If we had to pay 'as we go', we would certainly boat elsewhere. At least that's my 2 cents. We'll enjoy the canal for as long as we can.
Jack Howell
 
Thanks for the comments. They pushed me to do some web (and memory) searching. So far, here's more info.

Yes, the railroad often follows the canal. Canals came first in early America. When railroads came along in the early 1800s they noticed how canals had already laid out nice flat rights of way -- often with huge teams of laborers -- and they said, let's go there too. The RR's were direct competitors, built stations in the same towns, and even tried to sabotage canal structures (along the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal the railroad planted explosives under big canal aqueducts!).

And yes, the NY Canal authority was moved from the thruway authority to the power authority in 2016:
http://www.bcnys.org/inside/Legmemos/20 ... PartQ.html
(That link also says canal income is a fraction of one percent of canal upkeep costs.)

With electric power utilities becoming much less profitable these days, you might guess the power authority won't be eager to pour money into the canal system. And that's already their worry. Here's a link on that:
https://www.politico.com/states/new-yor ... tem-113695

To their credit, the power authority immediately ran a competition to "reimagine the canals:"
http://www.publicnow.com/view/B274B7133 ... 00-xxx4741
It looks like they also shortened the navigation season and settled a labor dispute with two unions. It would be fun to be a fly on the wall in those board meetings....

A big part of the hope is that active canals will draw enough recreation and tourism to pay for themselves in new business and jobs, revitalizing towns, reputational benefits and more. But it's easy to see how a business model approach could discount their "public goods" value as having little dollar value, and put them on the back burner when "real decisions" have to be made.
 
Well, buried in the announcement that the NY Canal authority was moved from the thruway authority to the power authority in 2016 was the little gem that the NY canal system (not just the Eire Canal) brought in $400 million in tourist trade, whilst costing $100 million to maintain. 4 to ! on your investment; hows that for a hard headed business decision?

Those towns along the canal system are having a hard time making a living. I hope NY doesn't make it harder by eliminating one of the greatest boating thrills in the USA.

Boris
 
Agreed Boris. We think the canal is a great resource. We're hoping it stays open for another 200 years. But, in today's financial situation/political environment who knows. It would be hard to imagine it not operating, and no one is talking about it shutting down. Much of upstate NY is struggling for economic growth, and our tax burden does not help. But, we're hopeful that things will improve. Bottom line, the canal is very scenic, and fun to boat and travel along.

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, the economic cost may be a little understated. The town of Fairport, which is just east of Rochester, has an historic and unique Swing Bridge over the canal. It is just starting a major rebuild. The bridge will be left in the open position, to allow boat traffic to pass while the bridge is undergoing the refurb. for a year or so. Road traffic will be rerouted. To maintain the historic look of the bridge involves lots of additional costs, they are literally casting the gears to replace them, as well as all the original cabling to operate the bridge. I understand that this bridge refurb falls under Transportation costs not under the canal budget. I'm glad to see the effort to maintain the historic look, but it does not come cheap. As noted, operating income from boating fees does not come close to covering these costs.

Enjoy the canal, and appreciate the history associated with it. I think it is an underutilized resource, as far as boating is concerned.
Jack
 
The question would be in they shut it down, what would they do with it?

If you left it alone it will fall into disrepair, turn into a swamp or bog, and be a hazard to the locals. If you drain it, it is still a hazard and the structure will decay more quickly.

The option would be to drain it and fill it in, but that is going to cost some serious $.
 
ssobol":18p3f6nc said:
The question would be in they shut it down, what would they do with it?

If you left it alone it will fall into disrepair, turn into a swamp or bog, and be a hazard to the locals. If you drain it, it is still a hazard and the structure will decay more quickly.

The option would be to drain it and fill it in, but that is going to cost some serious $.
Click to expand...

It would also be the destruction of a stellar piece of American history. When we cruised the Erie Canal (one of the "must-do things for me when we first purchased the CD-25), I was amazed at what an incredible DEAL it is. At that time, it cost more than twice as much to cruise the Trent-Severn. We enjoyed the history, the architecture, and the great people we met on the canal. Easy access to great restaurants and shopping. We even found a good Texas BBQ restaurant at one town! The pace is easy, and it is hard to get lost.

We found all the towns along the canal welcoming... I expected it to be crowded, but that was rarely the case. There were lock passages where we were the only boat. We weren't on a schedule, but we always found a spot on a town wall or near a lock for the night. There were a couple of stops where it was good that our boat was small enough to get a spot on the wall.

I would encourage any boater to "do the canal"... before those in charge make it too expensive or worse: shut it down. I hope it never comes to that. This past summer, we took our motorhome to Maine, spending about 3 months out... a week of that was in the vicinity of the Erie Canal, including some day trips to some of those "Remember that?" places. It was a delight.

Don't miss the opportunity for a unique cruising experience.

Jim & Joan
 
Article XV of the New York state constitution seems to protect the canal from being closed or sold, except for potential transfer to the federal government. If there's a C-Brat with expertise in NY politics and history they could tell us what that means for the current and future life of the canal, and which way the winds are blowing in New York. My daily NY Times is full of stories about state level scandals and corruption, budget trouble, and more ... never about the canal.

There was a story somewhere about the sale of property rights allowing a developer to build side canals, within the last 2-3 years. The sale price was astonishingly low ($30,000 if memory serves) and the deal was being investigated after a newspaper blew the whistle. Glad we still have journalists digging into things.
 
The subscription to notices from the NY Canals was confirmed by their email system today. I signed up for the notices on Feb. 22, and the confirmation email which the website said I'd receive "shortly" came March 5. If the system is automated as are other email subscription systems, it has a giant delay. If an employee is handling it....

In any case I'll keep following this thread and looking for canal news. Thanks to those who are contributing!

Richard
 
Well, that didn't go as planned.

The first mate had a long developing medical issue come to peak early July which resulted in no boating all summer. Until finally, we thought we were good to go and set out for our canal trip September 12.

We launched at Anchor Marine on Grand Island on the Niagara River. We spent the first night at West Canal Marina, 5 miles east of Tonawanda. It's not really a marina, but a very nice park with a decent concrete low wall. Nice restrooms and showers are a very short distance from the wall. Park employees reported the park wall was getting rebuilt in the fall and they would be adding power and water, which will make it a very attractive stop. There is a decent launch ramp with 3 finger piers.

The next day, we made it to Medina. The walls were high with lateral wood timbers. We tied up alongside a ladder, which made for an easy climb. Free power and water dockside with restrooms and showers close by. Downtown is right there. We did the obligatory walk to the model railroad museum (overwhelming, a must see), and checked out the Irish pub. Late afternoon, we were treated to a Ride4Life motorcycle stunt show in the parking lot right above the wall.

However, this is where it deviates from plan. The first mate was hit hard by abdominal pain. Enough so, that the next day we u-turned and made it back to the West Canal Marina. My brother who lives nearby drove me to get my truck and trailer which I brought back to the boat. The next day we hauled out and drove home to Detroit. An appointment with the surgeon a couple days later revealed that she had note quite healed enough and had overdone it.

I’m sure we will try again, likely in two years. We missed our annual North Channel trip this summer, so next year we are overdue to return. For the canal trip, we will do it as planned, as a round trip, going east for a week, turn around, and head back. With so many small towns and stops, going down in the locks heading east, going up heading west, I think there will be ample variety and the round trip concept should be fine.

Thanks to all for the comments and tips. Armed with 3 fenders on both sides, a couple boat hooks and gloves, the locks were easy. On the return, I did it singlehanded no problem. With our single Suzuki 90, economical cruise speed is 6 to 6.5 mph. I did find that dropping the tilt quite a bit and almost full down on the trim tabs, we could do the 10 mph canal speed limit with a reasonably small wake running 3200 rpm and burning 3 gph.
 
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