Weight Distributing Hitches
- Thread starter TyBoo
- Start date
I thought about air springs or Timbrens but I'm thinking down the road if I add a Bigfoot trailer to the fun mix, a WD hitch would be in order anyway. with the hitch I can shift some weight forward...the package tows nice enough now, the frontier is rated to tow 6300, just thinking about ways to make it gooder as I will probably be driving this truck and boat combo untill they load me into a nursing home
journey on
New member
I tried an equalizer hitch to give Journey On an easier ride behind a F-250. Had to remove it because, in order to tow the C-25 up a hill or any other place I needed traction, the equalizer hitch transferred too much weight from the rear wheels to the front ones, and the rears would slip.
The launch ramp is a good case on needing traction, unless you have 4 wheel drive, of course. I'm happy with 2 wheel and without equalizer.
The situation on a 1/2 ton is different, of course, but the weight transfer is the same. That's what an equalizer hitch does.
Boris
The launch ramp is a good case on needing traction, unless you have 4 wheel drive, of course. I'm happy with 2 wheel and without equalizer.
The situation on a 1/2 ton is different, of course, but the weight transfer is the same. That's what an equalizer hitch does.
Boris
You just undo the chains or bars on the equalizer hitch, and all of the weight goes back to where it was. This is done every time you hitch up. We never had any problem with the 25 either towing with the 30 foot Holiday Rambler or Excursion with traction. This includes the Sequim ramp which can be slippery at low tide. Just low gear and center differential lock was fine.
Traction is a non issue with the equalizing hitch, any more than a 2 x. Over the last 60+ years I have owned trailerable boats, I have only had two AWD or 4 X 4's. Never an issue with traction. If I did I had tow hooks on the front of the vehicle, or a hitch on the front--so I could have assist, or could put the rear wheels back up higher on the ramp, in an area of better traction. With the 4 x 4 we have currently, we have used the 4 wd, only twice and this was on dirt/sand/gravel ramps, with steep drop offs.
Traction is a non issue with the equalizing hitch, any more than a 2 x. Over the last 60+ years I have owned trailerable boats, I have only had two AWD or 4 X 4's. Never an issue with traction. If I did I had tow hooks on the front of the vehicle, or a hitch on the front--so I could have assist, or could put the rear wheels back up higher on the ramp, in an area of better traction. With the 4 x 4 we have currently, we have used the 4 wd, only twice and this was on dirt/sand/gravel ramps, with steep drop offs.
T.R. Bauer
New member
thataway":1v5y83r3 said:
So true....But then again, it might give the Honda Civic, Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, and Kia Rio owners hope that they can tow a CD 22 behind their 200 pound 25 hp car with flintstone brakes.....I am sure there is an engineer somewhere that will endorse it if will sell cars.....Oh wait, that never happens.....
I'm wondering about the overkill aspect, it looked to me when I was looking into hitches that every thing is revelant. they make light duty WD hitches for smaller rigs to tow tent trailers, medium duty WD hitches for medium duty rigs & heavy duty stuff. As we know, none of the WD hitches enable a vehicle to tow beyond it's capacity, just tow nicer. Maybe I'm missing something but I would think a frontier towing at about 3/4 of it's capacity would benifit from a properly specd WD hitch as well as a F250 diesel towing at 3/4 of it's capacity.....it's all a moot point for now anyway as I spent all my money on Lamiglass fishing rods
Many of the pickups and other Light Trucks (and some SUV's) actually have a sticker on the hitch saying that a WD hitch is required if more than Xxx tongue weight or XXXX towing weight. I have not seen that on smaller vehicles. I have seen several tow vehicle/trailer accidents where control was lost--and it is an impressive site when either one or both are overturned or thrown off the road down an embankment......Several had WD hitches. (If you come on one of these, immediately turn off any propane, and disconnect any electrical connections--including battery)
The point that WD hitches are made for lighter trailers is an excellent point.
However, as pointed out above, you really don't want to tow beyond the easy capacity of the vehicle. I towed the C Dory 22 behind a Honda Pilot-and it is pushing the capacity. When I went to buy a new tow vehicle (and TOAD for the RV) I chose a Yukon XL because it would be a much better tow vehicle--maybe a bit overkill for the 22, but with the weight, engine, transmission and wheel base, it makes towing the 22 a much better experience than the Pilot. Would a WD hitch "solve" any of the issues of the Pilot--I don't think so. It was limited by frame, wheel base, transmission and brakes. You can set up a boat on a trailer to get weight distribution on the back of the tow vehicle to what point you want (8 to 12% is what I shoot for). One of the reasons I went with the WD for the 25 was tire wear. It dramatically helped.
The point that WD hitches are made for lighter trailers is an excellent point.
However, as pointed out above, you really don't want to tow beyond the easy capacity of the vehicle. I towed the C Dory 22 behind a Honda Pilot-and it is pushing the capacity. When I went to buy a new tow vehicle (and TOAD for the RV) I chose a Yukon XL because it would be a much better tow vehicle--maybe a bit overkill for the 22, but with the weight, engine, transmission and wheel base, it makes towing the 22 a much better experience than the Pilot. Would a WD hitch "solve" any of the issues of the Pilot--I don't think so. It was limited by frame, wheel base, transmission and brakes. You can set up a boat on a trailer to get weight distribution on the back of the tow vehicle to what point you want (8 to 12% is what I shoot for). One of the reasons I went with the WD for the 25 was tire wear. It dramatically helped.
colbysmith
Active member
Thought I'd resurrect this thread as I was considering getting a weight distribution hitch for my CD22 and Toyota Highlander. My concern is that I get about a 2 1/4" squat in the rear of my Highlander with the boat trailer hooked up. I have about 430 lbs of tongue weight. I do have some "super spring" inserts that improved the initial squat of about 3". Anyway, after doing some research and looking into weight distributing systems, I see I would need a Pole-Tongue adapter. My concern with a unit like this is, on an aluminum boat trailer, there is a decent amount of flexibility in the frame. I wonder how much more stress the adapter would put on the single pole tongue as the weight is "sprung" onto it as part of the weight distribution? Looking more into this, I learned that unless a hitch is rated for weight distribution, the system should not be used. Low and behold, it looks like the Toyota Highlander hitch is not rated for weight distribution, so that pretty much ends my thought of adding it. Colby
Most aluminum trailers have the square or rectangular galvanized steel tongue poles. (Which your photo shows you have) We used the pole tongue adaptor, and there was actually less flex in the trailer than without the weight distribution hitch.
Trailer flex, only comes into play on rough roads, roads with concrete sectionals. The smooth roads, flex is not an issue.
There are also options of air bags , where you can vary the amount of lift (pressure)--but the question sort of becomes is the vehicle too light if you are having a significant problem.
Trailer flex, only comes into play on rough roads, roads with concrete sectionals. The smooth roads, flex is not an issue.
There are also options of air bags , where you can vary the amount of lift (pressure)--but the question sort of becomes is the vehicle too light if you are having a significant problem.
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, just wondering, a while back I think it was you that had the trailer beam bend almost down to the ground behind your motorhome. Were you using a WD hitch then? I know for a fact that the boat also helps to make the trailer a little more rigid. One can see the flexibility in the trailer by taking some of the torque out of the bow strap, then jack the trailer at a point behind the tongue jack. That single pole (beam) does flex under the weight of the boat, which really isn't a lot of weight for the CD22. I do tow my boat with the bow strap winched down tight. So that takes out a lot of the flexibility in the trailer. But if one tows with that bow strap loose, I think you will see the boat bow bounce up and down. With a WD system hitch, there will be more down force on the trailer at the point of the spring bar clamps. That would certainly take the flexing out of the trailer, but is that a good thing? I may be overthinking this. On the air bag issue, I have not yet found any that would work/fit the Highlander. The "squat" probably isn't that big of an issue, other than headlight aim being higher at night. And as I've posted in the other thread, many larger vehicles drop a few inches as well when you place heavy tongues on them, difference being they sit higher to begin with. Colby
Colby, We used to have a setup similar to the one in the link on our V6 Toyota Rav4 and it did really well for towing a couple of travel trailers. They are slightly fussier to use than a non-WD hitch but it really did balance out the tongue weight.
Would a hitch based trunnion rig not work with the hitch on the Highlander?
https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distrib ... 17300.html
Greg
Would a hitch based trunnion rig not work with the hitch on the Highlander?
https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distrib ... 17300.html
Greg
colbysmith
Active member
According to that same website, WD systems should only be used if the hitch is not rated for weight distribution. Ie, the hitch would have had a sticker showing ratings with and without weight distribution. The Highlanders hitch does not have that rating. You have to realize that a weight distributing system is putting more weight on the front of the hitch, or twisting effort, as it distributes tongue weight more evenly between the trailer axles and your tow vehicle's front axle. This means it's also putting more weight on your trailers tongue, although distributing it rearward. Colby
I am clear on how the WD hitches operate based on my own experience. What you are saying about the inability of your highlander to use a WD hitch just seemed too questionable to me so I did some digging. This is a thread you should read with relevant information and people are using them on that vehicle.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/122-2 ... hitch.html
Just one notable quote from the thread:
As luck has it, the GM of the dealership where I bought my HL from last month called me last Friday to ask me whether I was completely satisfied with the buying experience and my vehicle. I told him yes, but told him I was very disappointed and frustrated about not being able to get accurate and detailed tech info from Toyota's Cust Service Office. He told me he knew a tech guy at Toyota and would ask him give me a call.
Well, he called me today and I asked him about the WDH. Although I don't know his exact title, he told me he was some type of "tech liason" who handles my region who acts as an intermediary between the "aftermarket" (i.e. dealers/accessories) and Toyota's technical dept. He said that he definitely recommends the WDH, and that the HL will definitely withstand the stress. Otherwise, with higher tongue weights, he said the rear will sag and traction on the front will decrease, espec. in slick weather. I reminded about the unibody and what Toyota told us (not recomm), but he still said it'll handle it with no problem. Of course, he didn't give me this in writing, just over the phone. But he sounded fairly knowledgeable about hitches and towing. I asked him if the reason Toyota doesn't officially recommend a WDH is because they haven't tested the factory hitch with it. He said yes.
He was a nice guy; I could barely get a word in edgewise and we must have been on the phone for 20 minutes or so. Some other pointers he gave me were: he suggested a good Prodigy brake controller and also said wind drag will be an issue with non-folding travel trailers (he suggested something from Camping World called an "Air Foil" to help with this). I asked him about the low 45 mph speed limit recommendation while towing, and he said nobody tows that slowly. He said most OEMS have low suggested towing speeds like that (for liability & safety) and said just to use common sense. In his opinion, he said tongue weight will matter more than total trailer weight, even though he suggested (obviously) staying well below both limits. He said the HL will tow up to the max limits, but that it won't be a very "pleasant" experience (relative to mpg and handling). He said Toyota does very extensive testing of these things and engineers in some margin of safety, although he didn't know what the margin was (and he told me that was "off the record").
Greg
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/122-2 ... hitch.html
Just one notable quote from the thread:
As luck has it, the GM of the dealership where I bought my HL from last month called me last Friday to ask me whether I was completely satisfied with the buying experience and my vehicle. I told him yes, but told him I was very disappointed and frustrated about not being able to get accurate and detailed tech info from Toyota's Cust Service Office. He told me he knew a tech guy at Toyota and would ask him give me a call.
Well, he called me today and I asked him about the WDH. Although I don't know his exact title, he told me he was some type of "tech liason" who handles my region who acts as an intermediary between the "aftermarket" (i.e. dealers/accessories) and Toyota's technical dept. He said that he definitely recommends the WDH, and that the HL will definitely withstand the stress. Otherwise, with higher tongue weights, he said the rear will sag and traction on the front will decrease, espec. in slick weather. I reminded about the unibody and what Toyota told us (not recomm), but he still said it'll handle it with no problem. Of course, he didn't give me this in writing, just over the phone. But he sounded fairly knowledgeable about hitches and towing. I asked him if the reason Toyota doesn't officially recommend a WDH is because they haven't tested the factory hitch with it. He said yes.
He was a nice guy; I could barely get a word in edgewise and we must have been on the phone for 20 minutes or so. Some other pointers he gave me were: he suggested a good Prodigy brake controller and also said wind drag will be an issue with non-folding travel trailers (he suggested something from Camping World called an "Air Foil" to help with this). I asked him about the low 45 mph speed limit recommendation while towing, and he said nobody tows that slowly. He said most OEMS have low suggested towing speeds like that (for liability & safety) and said just to use common sense. In his opinion, he said tongue weight will matter more than total trailer weight, even though he suggested (obviously) staying well below both limits. He said the HL will tow up to the max limits, but that it won't be a very "pleasant" experience (relative to mpg and handling). He said Toyota does very extensive testing of these things and engineers in some margin of safety, although he didn't know what the margin was (and he told me that was "off the record").
Greg
bobjarrard
New member
I have two Eaz-Lift hitches in two capacity flavors as I have two different weight trailers and I use the Prodigy P# Controller to run electric brakes (Tundra with V8). I have two sway control units on my horse trailer as it freaks out the ponies if the trailer swings around a lot and then they add their 2000+ pounds to the motion!
#1 Hitch is not hard to put in place
#2 I really feel the gain in control over the trailers
#3 No issue for me on turning or backing up
I do suggest that you consider investing in a tongue weight strain gauge, with my hitches I have two sets of bars but it is not easy to guess at 700 vs 1000 pounds of tongue weight!
Both my WD hitches allow me to drop my tailgate with a trailer attached, one big advantage of this kind of rig as a regular hitch ball adapter if extended only makes the lever moment worse and may adversely effect sway.
both my WE hitches also allow for rake adjustment of the whole ball/hitch as well as height adjustment for the ball to the ground. It takes a bit of work to get it right the first time, I have a deal level concrete pad I use and lots of carpenter levels.
If I EVER get a C-dory, I will have to deal with the brake matter but as the P3 controller will handle electric over hydraulic, I think that will be the route for me.
See ya on the water!
Bob jarrard
#1 Hitch is not hard to put in place
#2 I really feel the gain in control over the trailers
#3 No issue for me on turning or backing up
I do suggest that you consider investing in a tongue weight strain gauge, with my hitches I have two sets of bars but it is not easy to guess at 700 vs 1000 pounds of tongue weight!
Both my WD hitches allow me to drop my tailgate with a trailer attached, one big advantage of this kind of rig as a regular hitch ball adapter if extended only makes the lever moment worse and may adversely effect sway.
both my WE hitches also allow for rake adjustment of the whole ball/hitch as well as height adjustment for the ball to the ground. It takes a bit of work to get it right the first time, I have a deal level concrete pad I use and lots of carpenter levels.
If I EVER get a C-dory, I will have to deal with the brake matter but as the P3 controller will handle electric over hydraulic, I think that will be the route for me.
See ya on the water!
Bob jarrard
colbysmith
Active member
Greg, thanks for that additional info. Anymore it is very hard to get technical information on anything involved with towing. I think the lawyers have everyone running scared. I'll have to reconsider the use of a WDH on my highlander. There is a nice set up available from Etrailers for a relatively decent price. The only issue I might have is in locating the pole tongue adapter with the location of my bow stop support. However, I have not felt any negative performance issues with my Highlander with the boat in tow, ie, on the front end of the Highlander. It is 4wd, but pretty sure it's Front Wheel Drive most the time. Colby
colbysmith
Active member
Ok, just read thru the 3 pages from that link Greg provided. And it seems pretty accurate as to the frustrations those of us with smaller or mid sized SUV's face in towing trailers. I think I'm just going to leave well enough alone with my current set up. As I've posted before, I have felt very safe and comfortable towing my C-Dory 22 behind my Highlander in it's current setup. I've towed it two round trips out west over the Rockies, and pulled the boat out of some fairly steep ramps closer to home. The Highlander has felt sturdy and secure while towing. My only complaint has been with the squat in the rear end of my Highlander, but that's more out of concern for headlight rise at night. Something that is also a problem I see with many oncoming pickup's and larger SUV's towing trailers! So I guess, if it's not broke, don't fix it, might be the best mantra to follow here. I'm within Toyota's printed specs, so at least the lawyers are ok with it too. :roll: Colby
One thing you must remember when using some of the small SUV's is that they are a car chassis, monocoque build: " The Highlander is the crossover counterpart to the more rugged, truck-based midsize 4Runner" I believe that the Highlander is on a Camry platform. (I did tow some short distances with the Honda Pilot, which is a crossover platform, my first C Dory 22, which was kept very light when towing on a tandem axle trailer. The pilot at that time was rated 3500 for house trailer, and 4500 for a boat. I suspect that the boat higher rating was more for air resistance than weight itself.
This puts the whole hitch in a different light than a truck type SUV, which attaches the hitch to the frame rails, with a much stiffer chassis.
I was not using a WD hitch when towing the C Dory 22 on a single axle trailer, where the tongue pole folded due to harmonic resonance of the road/trailer, and the comparative stiffness of the air ride stabilized motor home. (RV did not flex/bounce as the trailer did.) Much of the time we have towed with the Truck frame SUV.
Colby mentioned towing with the bow strap loose. I can not think of a single reason or situation where this would be wise. You want that strap as tight as possible, the bow of the boat against the stop, and a chain, (best with a turnbuckle) to the trailer frame, usually the tongue pole.
It is the truck framed SUV's which recommend using the WD hitch at the high end of their towing capacity. Many pickups and large SUV's have the decal on the bumper stating that over XXXX lbs a WD hitch should be used.
This puts the whole hitch in a different light than a truck type SUV, which attaches the hitch to the frame rails, with a much stiffer chassis.
I was not using a WD hitch when towing the C Dory 22 on a single axle trailer, where the tongue pole folded due to harmonic resonance of the road/trailer, and the comparative stiffness of the air ride stabilized motor home. (RV did not flex/bounce as the trailer did.) Much of the time we have towed with the Truck frame SUV.
Colby mentioned towing with the bow strap loose. I can not think of a single reason or situation where this would be wise. You want that strap as tight as possible, the bow of the boat against the stop, and a chain, (best with a turnbuckle) to the trailer frame, usually the tongue pole.
It is the truck framed SUV's which recommend using the WD hitch at the high end of their towing capacity. Many pickups and large SUV's have the decal on the bumper stating that over XXXX lbs a WD hitch should be used.
Checking the owners manual for a vehicle would be the first place to look. Some will actually recommend/require a WD hitch for loads over a certain limit for a unibody vehicle. Remember, unibodies are not weaker than body on frame vehicles, they are designed for a purpose and that purpose may or may not include towing allowances. Done well, a unibody vehicle can be stronger and lighter than a body on frame vehicle and that level of sophistication does exist in the market. The tiny smart car would be an example of exceptional unibody strength through modern design and it needed it to score well in safety tests.
There have been some unibody designs in the past that were failures but that speaks more to the execution than the concept. It would be great if folks didn't carry those prejudices for so long. Ford is still steering clear of it to this day after "problems" in the distant past. Here is a quote from ford related to the new F150 aluminum/steel body on frame construction that speaks volumes to me.
"But pickup owners believe a full-size unibody pickup lacks ruggedness"
Key word being believe,
Greg
There have been some unibody designs in the past that were failures but that speaks more to the execution than the concept. It would be great if folks didn't carry those prejudices for so long. Ford is still steering clear of it to this day after "problems" in the distant past. Here is a quote from ford related to the new F150 aluminum/steel body on frame construction that speaks volumes to me.
"But pickup owners believe a full-size unibody pickup lacks ruggedness"
Key word being believe,
Greg
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, I agree, a boat should not be towed with the bow strap loose. I mentioned it only in reference. (Unfortunately, anyone running an electric winch on the bow strap will find that the instructions say not to use the electric winch to secure the boat, but rather only to load it.) My own believe is that having that bow strap tight, also takes some of the flex out of the trailer, providing more support for the boat.
Greg, thanks again for more information on the unibody. In the past, I have preferred larger SUV's (such as the Ford Bronco or the Excursion) for towing. However, no longer having a need to tow large trailers, I downsized mostly for cost savings in fuel. I have no regrets in downsizing to the Highlander, and again, it has surpassed my expectations. Colby
Greg, thanks again for more information on the unibody. In the past, I have preferred larger SUV's (such as the Ford Bronco or the Excursion) for towing. However, no longer having a need to tow large trailers, I downsized mostly for cost savings in fuel. I have no regrets in downsizing to the Highlander, and again, it has surpassed my expectations. Colby