Water maker

D

danabigsur

New member
Planning on trailering our 25ft C-Dory “Sierra” down the Baja Peninsula this coming winter, putting in at Puerto Escondido, then cruising south to La Paz & some north toward Bahia Conception.
We have cruised this on our sailboat with 100 gals of fresh water.
Our C-Dory has a 20 gal fresh water tank (under the V Berth) and measured availability is 18 gals. Loading the boat up for extended cruising plus no water available in many places we will be & not much space for 5 gal water jugs, we are looking to make our own fresh from salt.
Has anyone out there installed one in their C-Dory? And if not, I often wonder what folks do about their limited fresh water capacity while cruising in salt water for an extended period of time. We have installed raw water foot pumps to use whenever possible, but even with our years of cruising & knowledge of conserving water usage, 18 gals just doesn’t go very far.
 
I once thought about a low capacity (therefore less expensive) water maker, but when I checked around, the minimum cost seemed to be $3000-4000 not installed. I stopped thinking about it :wink:.
 
Not much help here, but you're not alone. I've been unable to find any posts on this site re. C-Dorys with water makers. I'm somewhat interested in the same thing since we plan on doing lots of boondocking along the BC coast. I say "somewhat" because water makers are expensive and unnecessary here in the PNW. One can always resort to going ashore and refilling from a stream, then hauling it back to the boat and boiling or treating it. So I consider it an expensive luxury item.

I'm planning on 320W of solar, which supposedly should yield an average of about 80 watt-hours of energy per day over a PNW summer, less where you are since the days are shorter there in the summer. I'm also powering a DC freezer/frig and, in theory, should have enough energy left on a sunny day to make several gallons of fresh water. I'm going to plan for this, but not install initially until I'm convinced I can make enough energy and it's really worth the upfront cost to me.

I'm looking at DIY (Google "DIY marine 12v water maker"), which is cheaper, or a small system like this...
https://www.jmpeltier.com/2015/07/26/cr ... termakers/
 
localboy":2meyqtl8 said:
Lack of space...where ya gonna put it?
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"The KATADYN PowerSurvivor 40E has an output of 1.5 gallons per hour at the cost of only four amps on a 12VDC system. ... it is small at 16.5″ long, 15.5″ wide, and 6.8″ tall."
 
Can't you just make a still? Boil some seawater, collect the vapor, condense it. Wouldn't be that hard to do. If you had a sufficient heat supply (i.e. fuel) it would not take a lot of effort.

A still does not require the membranes, high pressures, or maintenance of a water maker.

I'm guessing the volume produced by a still that fits on a C-Dory and a hand pumped water maker is probably about the same per day. The still requires a lot less physical work though.

The added benefit of the still is that it'll help keep the boat warm.
 
pcg":3ruyay5n said:
"The KATADYN PowerSurvivor 40E has an output of 1.5 gallons per hour at the cost of only four amps on a 12VDC system. ... it is small at 16.5″ long, 15.5″ wide, and 6.8″ tall."
Click to expand...

That's just the unit itself. One also has hoses, various filters of differing microns plus the filter housings etc, etc, etc. https://www.katadyn.com/us/us/102-8013438-katadyn-powersurvivor-40e-12-v So, again: where ya gonna put it all?
 
The only realistic choice for the C Dory is the Katadyn 40E. This was started as a manual powered life raft pump type of water maker. I have known several cruisers who have used them, with reasonable results. The cost is going to be in the $4300 range. That I believe is the cheapest option. Buying used --and they do come up fairly frequently for about half that--is the other option. But you may have to rebuild the unit. For crossing oceans, this may make sense. But I don't see it as viable for coastal cruising.

I have friends who have made their own 110 or 220 V AC water makers. But the size of the high pressure pump is the issue--and puts these out of class for the C Dory of any size (except perhaps the 27 with the fish hold.)

I have owned two different water makers--each was used 4 years, almost daily. The first was a Standard, 20 gallon an hour, with a 110 V AC CAT pump. The second was a Village marine (also 20 gallons an hour), but it used a commercial grade wobble plate pump. Both had pressures in the 900 PSI Range. The Wobble plate pump was far superior. It was longer lasting, had far less service issues, and was quiet. It ran at about 600 RPM, vs 3600 RPM for the CAT pump. If you could find one of the Wobble plate units, it could be run off a 12 volt DC motor--but the current draw and output would just be worth it--plus the bulk of the membranes and filters...

The care and feeding of these watermakers is important. The membranes are susceptible to oils, and bacterial / fungal infections, This means that they cannot be used in most commercial harbors. Also Chlorine will ruin the water maker membranes. The membranes must be used daily--and if not use for more than 5 days should be "Pickled". Membranes have to be replaced if damaged. Also they are susceptible to freezing damage.

I don't see any issues cruising the BC coast. There are many water sources, which can be utilized, and then a filter and UV light can be used to treat the water.

As for Baja--Our cruising in that area was on our two larger boats (62 and 46 feet, both with 8 KW generators, and at least 500 gallons of water tankage. Even then, we reserved 100 gallons just for the water maker, and never filled it with shore water. We feel that it is a good idea to back wash the membrane after each use. thus no domestic water ever was put into our water maker tank.

We did a TransPac race with 10 crew and 50 gallons of water. After 15 days, we still had some water left. I cruised the West Coast of Baja in the 60's with a Columbia Defender and only carried 20 gallons of water. We did fine for month +trips. You can get water in villages and treat as below. There are lots of fisherman who ply the coast and even oceanic Islands--they get enough water.

All cooking and bathing is with salt water. Even brushing teeth is with salt water. Fresh water is for drinking only. In the C Dory, one can put a bladder tank up forward, and should easily get 40 gallons total.

Water should be filtered against parasites as well as anti bacterial, anti fungal and anti viral treatment. Virus and cysts are the biggest issue which most systems do not address.

First you want a [1] prefilter--that removes any gross contaminates which you might see and would rapidly clog a [2] bacterial and parasite filter (down to .02 micron) [3] purifiers, which may take the form of a filter which is able to remove virus, ultra violet light, chemical treatment or boiling. The latter two are the cheapest way to go.

There are a number of particulate filters/with charcoal core to remove particles and tastes--these are used on campers etc--and can be run on gravity or with a pump, such as a pressure sprayer commonly known as "in line filters".

Probably the best bacterial and parasite filter is the Katadyn Hiker Pro Clear Microfilter. It takes about 50 strokes per liter to pump the water thru. It is also on site re-cleanable. This is in the $80 range.

For the purifier the Steri Pen, with AA batteries would be a choice for virus in addition to a pump like the Katadyn Hiker Pro. Don't believe the hype that UV will eliminate all protozoa and cysts. But using this effectively can eliminate the virus issues. The MSR Guardian Purifier ($265) uses a back flush technique and membrane is good for up to 10,000 liters. It takes about 35 strokes per liter--claims to be virus free--again, I would want to use UV to be double sure.

CDC puts out a nice table which shows the effectiveness of the various techniques.. Rolling boiling water for at least 1 minute wins hands down.

The old household bleach--one teaspoon per 5 gallons, stir well, and let set for 60 minutes works--but boiling is best.
 
Hey thanks for all the responses to Danas question about a watermaker install, I will expand a bit, we have upgraded virtually all the systems on new to us Sierra and now have a new fridge and freezer and 370 watts of solar which will easily run a watermaker in Baja. As for a still, one of the hardest parts of cruising Baja for weeks at a time is very little access to fuel for cooking and the outboard. On our sailboat we did have a 40 e watermaker as there is also almost no water available, but at 1 1/2 gal an hour even with salt water foot pumps we need about 3 plus gallons a day minimum and a lot has to be saved to backflush each time for a few amps more and a little more money we can get 6-8 gallons anhour. We would like to know if anyone has done a clean tidy install on a 25 C-dory of this size watermaker. We are also interested if anyone has used a portable gas powered Rainman watermaker.
Thanks, Dana and Micah
 
P S in the Sea of Cortez we have spent many winters on our previous sailboat that had a 100 gallon water tank. It is not like the Pacific northwest, it is dessert with over 100 miles and 2 weeks of cruising in between any fuel or water AT ALL so we have to be totally self sufficient for 10 days to 2 weeks so we have restored Sierra to be a long range cruiser but the last thing to add is a watermaker.
Thanks
 
Hi. This is Dana again. Thanks for all the feedback so far. We have spent 5 years cruising the Sea in our sailboat and know the drill. Both of us have extensive cruising in the 70’s-80’s, both in the Pacific & Atlantic Ocean waters. In regards to using salt water for everything including teeth brushing, bathing & dishes to conserve fresh water usage, we have much experience with that. However, in general, the oceans have gotten dirtier & busier with many more cruising boats crowding anchorages over the years, many if not most dumping their raw sewage right there where anchored where we would be washing dishes & brushing our teeth. I know this to be so at least in the Sea of Cortez where there are no pump out facilities!! Crossing an ocean is one thing, being anchored in a cove with many bother boats & little water exchange is another. This is where our 18 gals wouldn’t last long.
We do have a 2003 C-Dory & the water tank is already in the bow under the V Berth, so no putting any other tank up there. We have considered putting in a water bladder in the back in the holding tank that we are not using as we have a composting head, but that project would be difficult to get to & figure out .. We are leaning leaning towards the portable Rainman gas stand alone water maker for this trip ... no installation needed. Was just curious what others do about fresh water when cruising in salt for longer periods of time !! Thanks again
Dana & Micah on “Sierra”
 
I guess I should have given some context we sold our Ranger tug 25 last year to get a lighter and simpler C-dory. We have replaced every system on the boat from the new 200 and 9.9 Suzukis to a new windlass and anchoring system. Up to the aluminum radar arch I welded up for the new Simrad 4G radar and chart plotter, everything single thing was replaced with new and I did an almost complete rewire. Except for the new camper top Dana and I did all the work ourselves.
Dana got her Captains license at 19 and ran a charter boat from Maine down to the Bahamas and Florida keys for over 12 years before going to nursing school.
I went to Australia when I was 24 and built a Roberts 45 ketch from the plans while I was working for a big boatbuilding company. I finished building the boat in three years and then sailed her back through the Pacific islands to California. I have since rebuilt a couple of other sailboats and I am almost done rebuilding the C-dory but need specific advice from any Cbrat that has installed a 6 to 8 gallon an hour watermaker that draws less than 15 amps.
Thanks, Micah
 
I guess I should have given some context we sold our Ranger tug 25 last year to get a lighter and simpler C-dory. We have replaced every system on the boat from the new 200 and 9.9 Suzukis to a new windlass and anchoring system. Up to the aluminum radar arch I welded up for the new Simrad 4G radar and chart plotter, everything single thing was replaced with new and I did an almost complete rewire. Except for the new camper top Dana and I did all the work ourselves.
Dana got her Captains license at 19 and ran a charter boat from Maine down to the Bahamas and Florida keys for over 12 years before going to nursing school.
I went to Australia when I was 24 and built a Roberts 45 ketch from the plans while I was working for a big boatbuilding company. I finished building the boat in three years and then sailed her back through the Pacific islands to California. I have since rebuilt a couple of other sailboats and I am almost done rebuilding the C-dory but need specific advice from any Cbrat that has installed a 6 to 8 gallon an hour watermaker that draws less than 15 amps.
Thanks, Micah
 
Micahbigsur@msn.com":gg2r5s2w said:
I guess I should have given some context we sold our Ranger tug 25 last year to get a lighter and simpler C-dory. We have replaced every system on the boat from the new 200 and 9.9 Suzukis to a new windlass and anchoring system. Up to the aluminum radar arch I welded up for the new Simrad 4G radar and chart plotter, everything single thing was replaced with new and I did an almost complete rewire. Except for the new camper top Dana and I did all the work ourselves.
Dana got her Captains license at 19 and ran a charter boat from Maine down to the Bahamas and Florida keys for over 12 years before going to nursing school.
I went to Australia when I was 24 and built a Roberts 45 ketch from the plans while I was working for a big boatbuilding company. I finished building the boat in three years and then sailed her back through the Pacific islands to California. I have since rebuilt a couple of other sailboats and I am almost done rebuilding the C-dory but need specific advice from any Cbrat that has installed a 6 to 8 gallon an hour watermaker that draws less than 15 amps.
Thanks, Micah
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Wow!
 
Wow, that sounds like an amazing trip. I went from La Paz to Puerto Escondido when I was a kid on some guys cabin cruiser. It was an amazing trip.

What about a simple, cheap, but heavy solution; a 55 gallon drum full of water. It will add about 500lbs to the boat. There are places that you'll be able to get water along the way in 5-10 gallon increments by using Jerry cans or bladders. Places like Mulege, etc. Then just bring a copious supply of iodine tablets to treat said water.
 
Thanks,
I have been having so much fun rebuilding Sierra, the tug was almosg new and only needed a few things like salt water foot pumps and the composting toilet. It was overweight with teak and the fiberglass liners made it hard to work on with a lot of the electrical stuff like fore and aft thrusters in inaccessible areas in high saltwater environments. The common rail computer run Yanmar/BMW collaboration was discontinued by Yanmar, overstressed with long term problems, this was not the kind of diesel I learned to maintain on bulldozers and such on our ranch or on our original sailboats. I know it sounds crazy bit I came to the conclusion that modern 4 stroke outboards were more worked out, reliable, and simpler than the new generation of diesels. I don't expect to do all the maintenance on our Suzukis myself but outboard mechanics are everywhere and Yanmar mechanics with their computer diagnostics are not.I am pretty lame at posting stuff, I always seem to push a button that screws my posts up, I did put up a post in the welcome new member deal that gave a few more specifics on our transformation of Sierra yesterday, but I pushed the reply button so it went down to the bottom of the posts.
Thanks for your patience, Micah
 
thataway":317su02l said:
CDC puts out a nice table which shows the effectiveness of the various techniques.
Click to expand...
Interesting table (thanks for posting that link).

FWIW, I can add one wrinkle to the conclusions of that table. Iodine may be more effective in killing parasites and cysts than indicated (note the only downside of iodine in the table is for parasites and cysts).

I used to be heavy duty backpacker in very remote areas. Spent at least 1000 days in the wild. I am also very susceptible to Giardia (I've had it 5 times). I also traveled for a couple of years in remote areas of Asia where drinking untreated water got me sick nearly every time.

I did a lot of research, as well as practical in-the-field testing, given my Giardia problem. My solution? Using iodine in much higher concentrations than normally used. I never got sick (even Giardia) when doing this, but got Giardia multiple times both backpacking and 3rd world traveling when I didn't do this.

There are 2 disadvantages of doing this: one, you must wait to drink; two, there will be a residual taste of iodine. One gets used to the taste (at least I did); and the biggest problem for waiting is that you must plan ahead (in backpacking it also forced me to drink warmish water instead of fresh, cold stream water).
 
smckean (Tosca)":32nsrrav said:
thataway":32nsrrav said:
CDC puts out a nice table which shows the effectiveness of the various techniques.
Click to expand...
Interesting table (thanks for posting that link).

FWIW, I can add one wrinkle to the conclusions of that table. Iodine may be more effective in killing parasites and cysts than indicated (note the only downside of iodine in the table is for parasites and cysts).

I used to be heavy duty backpacker in very remote areas. Spent at least 1000 days in the wild. I am also very susceptible to Giardia (I've had it 5 times). I also traveled for a couple of years in remote areas of Asia where drinking untreated water got me sick nearly every time.

I did a lot of research, as well as practical in-the-field testing, given my Giardia problem. My solution? Using iodine in much higher concentrations than normally used. I never got sick (even Giardia) when doing this, but got Giardia multiple times both backpacking and 3rd world traveling when I didn't do this.

There are 2 disadvantages of doing this: one, you must wait to drink; two, there will be a residual taste of iodine. One gets used to the taste (at least I did); and the biggest problem for waiting is that you must plan ahead (in backpacking it also forced me to drink warmish water instead of fresh, cold stream water).
Click to expand...

Curious, What were your "higher levels of Iodine". I have had Giardia one time. By all means, Treatment is better than cure., I do not want to get that again.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
Curious, What were your "higher levels of Iodine"
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Harvey, I can't tell you specifically. I always used iodine crystals (I don't recommend the tablets). A small bottle of crystals lasts years. The bottle will likely recommend the amount of water to add given the water temperature (colder water dissolves less iodine). I ignored those recommendations. I simply filled a 20-30ml bottle (with the iodine crystals at the bottom) using near room temperature water. Iodine is chemically a metal, so the crystals are heavy and easily stay at the bottom of the bottle. Shake well until the water dissolves as much iodine as possible (known as a saturated solution). I added maybe 15 ml of that saturated solution to a liter water bottle. Let it stand 30 to 60 minutes with the top off. After a while you get used to what color that saturated solution looks like. If it is too light in color (for example if the water is too cold), then I gave it a double dose.

Much of the iodine vents out of the bottle so the iodine taste diminishes in an hour or so from when you first add the iodine. I have also drank the water nearly immediately after adding the iodine when I had to with no ill effects (although the taste is stronger). Whatever the concentration I used, it was much stronger than the recommended concentration. I think the recommendations are based on the minimal amount that kill bacteria and other small organisms; parasites and cysts are more heavily "fortified" -- which is why a heavier dose is required. My assumption has been they recommend the lighter concentration in order to minimize what many would probably call an objectionable taste; but the strong-ish iodine taste never bothered me (or my wife). We drank such water nearly every day for 2 years in Asia....never a problem. The body can handle the iodine as long as you don't get a massive dose (such as by accidentally drinking the crystals themselves). Indeed your body needs a certain amount of iodine.

P.S. Yes the treatment for Giardia is horrid (flagyl.....basically a poison). You feel miserable while taking it. BTW, one of the times I had Giardia was after taking water from a stream in BC to fill a boat water tank.
 
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