Wallas Smoking...help!

Scan Marine recommended running regular pump diesel in my 85DU. They said Kerosene has a shorter shelf life and the quality can be variable. Pump diesel, especially the new low sulfur variant from a high volume station, is apparently the best bet.

Bob, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Few people start threads about how perfectly their Wallas (or other piece of equipment) runs. We tend to take for granted that equipment will work and become frustrated when it doesn't and then post to forums like this to figure out solutions and prevent future problems.

Like all mechanical equipment, the Wallas is prone to (hopefully occasional) failure and needs periodic maintenance. From what I've read elsewhere, it seems all the forced air diesel heating systems occasionally fail and need periodic maintenance, just like the Wallas. The question is if the Wallas is less reliable than other alternatives, and I can't find any statistically significant data one way or the other. My bet is there are more Wallas combo stove/heaters in C-Dory's than any other boat and more active owners online here than anywhere else. Naturally there'd also be more failures reported here.

For now the Wallas is staying on the boat, but I'll carry camping and/or backpacking equipment along for backup. I'm also going to buy some spare Wallas parts to keep on the boat. When it failed last week I was able to take apart and reassemble most of the stove with no real instruction or guidance. In the future I hope to be able to take apart the whole thing, clean the burner, and replace parts if necessary while on the boat. I don't think it will be too difficult.

Now, if it fails again in the next few hundred hours, its gone forever and I'll get something else installed. But one failure and $235 in maintenance/repair costs in close to four years of ownership (even if it wasn't run all that much) doesn't seem too out of line.

I'm heading back up to the San Juans tomorrow to give it a thorough multi-day test. Naturally it's forecast to be blowing a gale again and raining sideways...wish me luck!
 
20dauntless":2ej86ds1 said:
I'm heading back up to the San Juans tomorrow to give it a thorough multi-day test. Naturally it's forecast to be blowing a gale again and raining sideways...wish me luck!

I just looked at the forecast, S wind 25 to 35 kt easing to 20 to 30 kt in the afternoon. Wind waves 2 to 5 ft. It is going to be...lively.
 
Big Mac: You question the start up time for a Wallas. When you turn the Wallas off, the pump which supplies fuel to the burn pot stops. You'll notice it no longer makes that quiet "clunk" sound. Any unburned fuel continues to burn off, and once the burn is complete, the red panel light goes out, or begins flashing - can't remember which. The fan continues for some time until the unit has cooled.

When you start the Wallas, you're beginning with an empty burn pot. You'll hear two sounds when you press the start button: the clunking of the pump, and the exhaust fan. Do this with the top up, or the recirculating fan will pretty much drown out all the noises you're listening for.

The pump causes fuel to drip onto and around the ignitor, which is nothing more than a glow-plug shaft. How quickly you get ignition depends several factors: fuel quality, voltage to the glow-plug, and plug condition.

If you listen very carefully, you can hear the slight "pop" of the fuel actually igniting, and the beginning of the flame in the pot. Once there is a flame, the unit is coming up to temperature. The red panel light will light in a few seconds, once the temperature sensor determines that there is a flame going. I've never bothered to time how long it takes for the unit to come up to heat, since once I have a flame in the pot, I figure the unit has started.

Under ideal conditions (new ignitor, new fuel, warm air, fully charged batteries, I've had a flame in a little as 12 seconds. Under normal use, it seems to take about 20.

Hope this answers your question.
 
Today, we have been reading this very long and varied thread of comments, advice and concerns. We are very glad to see people exchanging ideas and information about Wallas products, but we need to raise a couple very important topics of concern from our end.

1. There are several models of Wallas products out there, some current and some from the past. Some burn diesel, some burn kerosene. Some have solutions to problems that are not applicable to other Wallas products. Generalized comments about one Wallas product may have no bearing on another Wallas product and could bring about actions that could be harmful. Please identify the exact product when asking for advice. Call us if you need help identifying what you own.

Some typical Wallas products and correct fuels:

95DU with 25 lid (AKA 125DU) Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1
95DP with 25 lid (AKA 125DP) Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1

85DU with 270 lid Fuel: Diesel #1 or #2
85DP with 270 lid Fuel: Diesel #1 or #2

800 with 220 lid (AKA 800/220) Fuel: 1K kerosene

3000D, 3000DX Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1
30D Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1
40D Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1

22Dt Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1
30Dt Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1
40Dt Fuel: Diesel #2 or #1

1300 Fuel: 1K kerosene
1800 Fuel: 1K kerosene
2400 Fuel: 1K kerosene

2. We don't charge anything to anyone who calls us for information and troubleshooting on their Wallas device. At some point, we may advise you that we don't feel a solution can be reached over the phone, but often they can be. We have a vested interest in your having a good experience with your Wallas product.

3. When a Wallas device is running poorly or won't start, it is especially valuable if you can call and talk to us via mobile phone when you are standing at your device and able to try running it for us. We can learn a great deal from you telling us what you are seeing when you try starting or running the unit.

Happy New Year and thank you for using Wallas, let us know how we can help.

Doug at Scan
1-888-606-6665
 
Hey Doug - thanks much for the official response.

A question I've never seen answered - what is your take on Klean Heat? Many have reported great results from it, and it's undeniably better from the "stink" perspective - both during startup, and for that occasional spill. However, I've never seen an official factory response on this fuel.

Have you guys seen any fuel related problems from Klean Heat users? In particular, I'm interested in it as it pertains to the 95 series units, but others may be curious about their models as well.
 
Da Nag":1rbauo51 said:
Hey Doug - thanks much for the official response.

A question I've never seen answered - what is your take on Klean Heat? Many have reported great results from it, and it's undeniably better from the "stink" perspective - both during startup, and for that occasional spill. However, I've never seen an official factory response on this fuel.

Have you guys seen any fuel related problems from Klean Heat users? In particular, I'm interested in it as it pertains to the 95 series units, but others may be curious about their models as well.

Ditto on the thanks, and ditto on the question also, but with respect to the 800/220. (I've used Klean Heat exclusively for 6 years. Never failed to start. Never failed to run. Zero problems. So I'm sort of in a "don't rock the boat" frame of mind.)
 
Bill:

We really know very little about Klean Heat, since our previous inquiries to the manufacturer went mostly unanswered. It has been identified as a "synthetic" kerosene, but our understanding of what that involves chemically is very limited.

We have found that it seems to work well in Wallas kerosene products. At one time, we understood that Klean Heat would "hold" in the jug longer before going bad than 1K kerosene will. We now can find no reference to that characteristic in our reviews and the label says to remove all Klean-Heat from your device at the end of the season over concern about condensation.

It has a flash point notably higher than kerosene, but no autocombustion point is noted in the MSDS. References for the product can be found on the W.M. Barr website.

We prefer to see this product used and handled as if it was kerosene. Users seem to think it smells better, so that is a plus.

Doug
 
As I stated a few days ago I decided to take in our stove for service to Scan Marine. I got up to the store about 11am Thursday and dropped off the stove. Mike looked it over and said it looked clean and should not take to long to service. I got a call about 4:30pm stating that they would have it shipped out that evening. It checked out good in all areas, and they only replaced the glow plug and blower motor. Mike stated that the blower motor was still fine, but was starting to make a little noise. It started up and ran fine at the shop. I still feel good having had it serviced, as it is 10 years old and even though it has always worked great, I did not want a failure when I really wanted it to be working. Their charges were fair and included shipping it back to me ($280.00). Not bad for 10 years of service. I always use highway diesel and start it every month during the off season. Just for curiosity I asked how man Wallas heaters they had sold for C-Dory's and they said over 800 units. It would be interesting to have a pole and see how many acually are having good luck with there units? I was very impressed with the quick and fair price on service and also the friendly attitude of Scan Marine. I would definitely buy one again.
 
Please note, in our references to diesel fuels, we find the use of #1 or #2 to be equally acceptable, although in extreme cold conditions, #1 might prove to be the better choice, depending on where the fuel is stored. By far, #2 diesel is the most commonly used fuel for our diesel products. It is very low in sulfur content by law (low odor) and it seems to be very consistent at the pump, owing to a steady flow to many consumers.

Thanks.


Doug at Scan
1-888-606-6665
 
I can only surmise that these nice folks at Wallas service center had it out for Starcraft Tom and maybe Pat too. Look at these nice little $280 service bills. You would almost think that the $700 dollar figures are a thing of the past. I wonder if all the postings had something to do with more realistic pricing. I think you could get a house heater serviced cheaper but wow only 280!!!! :P
D.D.
 
Big Mac":adgw266e said:
As I stated a few days ago I decided to take in our stove for service to Scan Marine. I got up to the store about 11am Thursday and dropped off the stove. Mike looked it over and said it looked clean and should not take to long to service. I got a call about 4:30pm stating that they would have it shipped out that evening. It checked out good in all areas, and they only replaced the glow plug and blower motor. Mike stated that the blower motor was still fine, but was starting to make a little noise. It started up and ran fine at the shop. I still feel good having had it serviced, as it is 10 years old and even though it has always worked great, I did not want a failure when I really wanted it to be working. Their charges were fair and included shipping it back to me ($280.00). Not bad for 10 years of service. I always use highway diesel and start it every month during the off season. Just for curiosity I asked how man Wallas heaters they had sold for C-Dory's and they said over 800 units. It would be interesting to have a pole and see how many acually are having good luck with there units? I was very impressed with the quick and fair price on service and also the friendly attitude of Scan Marine. I would definitely buy one again.
+ 1 Big Mac. :thup My experience as well. Required service only once in 6 years. The same ballpark cost. We've been using Kleenheat for the most part.

I guess Pat and others' view is that these units start to require more service costing more and more $$. I haven't experienced this. Time will tell.
 
Will-C":3fqora7s said:
I can only surmise that these nice folks at Wallas service center had it out for Starcraft Tom and maybe Pat too. Look at these nice little $280 service bills. You would almost think that the $700 dollar figures are a thing of the past. I wonder if all the postings had something to do with more realistic pricing. I think you could get a house heater serviced cheaper but wow only 280!!!! :P
D.D.

Actually Dave, I think the big dollar repair numbers have more to do with the control board needing or not to be replaced added to whatever other service. I think the board alone is a $600 plus item. When mine went out on our 2007 Alaska cruise They gave me a choice between new & rebuild. Got the rebuild at about half the price. Board went out on me due to not being properly set in it's holder. Going through very rough water caused it to move enough to short out.

The Wallas is expensive, repairs & otherwise, but in all my dealings with Scan Marine never felt they were anything but up front & honest. Also very good with technical support on the phone. On the other hand their knowing the Wallas is discussed thoroughly on this site can only be a plus for all us Wallas owners.
 
Doug, thanks for your input. Although we've never had a problem, I'd like to keep it like that. So, I have two questions. In a previous posting you recommended the following for long term storage w/out use:

4. Storing the boat/stove/heater: If you know you will be putting your boat and or the stove/heater for more than two months, our best advice is that you start the device and get it up to temperature. Remove the fuel line from your tank and run the device until it quits for lack of fuel. This is a good time top inspect your fuel filter. The bronze filter inside your Wallas tank can be removed and soaked in a solvent like acetone or MEK and then blown out with an air hose. You will need to re-prime when you get back to boating.

My questions are: what do you mean by "quits for lack of fuel"? What will it do, specifically? Also, what is the procedure for re-priming?

Thanks!
 
Just heard a truck in the driveway and it was UPS at 8pm. Out of the truck he came with our stove. That's amazing to me as I just delivered it up to Seattle yesterday and it's back on Friday night. For the ones not familiar with Washington, it's about a 100 mile trip one way. UPS deserves some applause. To clarify for Will-C the parts were about $90.00 and service was $150.00. I still feel that was a fair price. I will get it installed tomorrow and give it a try.
 
Da Nag":ucj8072c said:
Hey Doug - thanks much for the official response.

A question I've never seen answered - what is your take on Klean Heat? Many have reported great results from it, and it's undeniably better from the "stink" perspective - both during startup, and for that occasional spill. However, I've never seen an official factory response on this fuel.

Have you guys seen any fuel related problems from Klean Heat users? In particular, I'm interested in it as it pertains to the 95 series units, but others may be curious about their models as well.

FIRST, Doug at Scan, thanks for joining in and for some clarification. You are right about there being several Wallas products out here, and yet each of us think of our stove as a "Wallas". So there may be technical differences for you in trouble shooting over the phone but in practical differences are there much differences to us as users?

I know I have a "95" but don't recall the following letters, and I know it has a lid with a fan. I have used Kleen Heat exclusively for 5 years, but use the stove rather infrequently, 4 - 6 times a year, splitting the use usually into the early and late season times. (Always start on high and finish on high setting before shut down.)

SECOND, I'm really glad to see Scan input here. Shows interest in providing good customer care, and there are a bunch of customers on this site. I'm guessing but there are probably more users here who have not had trouble than have. It is a technical electromechanical device and they tend to work well until they don't. Nature of the beast. We, as users tend to not notice how well they work, :shock: until they don't :twisted: and then we get all discombooberated. Who wouldn't, we are out in the cold, and want heat OR we are hungry and want hot food. Yup, the ^%**$@!! thing won't work :thdown :thdown BUT it has for the last hundred times :thup :thup Time to get all excited now. Guess we are all a bit human.

THIRD, sure glad for this site and it's ability to reach out and get to the experienced, knowledgable, technically adept and friendly Brats and support in a timely manner. Makes owning a C-Dory, boating on one, and life in general much better :thup :thup :love :rainbow :hot

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

3_Bellingham_Line_of_C_D_s_2009_917.highlight.jpg
 
localboy":2ds2hekr said:
Doug, thanks for your input. Although we've never had a problem, I'd like to keep it like that. So, I have two questions. In a previous posting you recommended the following for long term storage w/out use:

4. Storing the boat/stove/heater: If you know you will be putting your boat and or the stove/heater for more than two months, our best advice is that you start the device and get it up to temperature. Remove the fuel line from your tank and run the device until it quits for lack of fuel. This is a good time top inspect your fuel filter. The bronze filter inside your Wallas tank can be removed and soaked in a solvent like acetone or MEK and then blown out with an air hose. You will need to re-prime when you get back to boating.

My questions are: what do you mean by "quits for lack of fuel"? What will it do, specifically? Also, what is the procedure for re-priming?

Thanks!

Marc,

I sure hope you get this answered. Could you please post the link to that thread. Thanks.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Got the Wallas 95 DU installed this morning and turned it on, bingo works fine. As I mentioned before the only thing I was worried about was the blower fan going out and causing bigger repair costs. It is very hard to hear a difference as I have had the stove 10 years. I am sure it has changed the noise level slightly over the years. I do notice the newly replaced blower motor is very quiet, so I am very glad I did the service.
 
Hardee and localboy:

Storage and running out of fuel:

When the device has used up all the fuel in the line, it will see a sudden, dramatic drop in combustion chamber temperature and go into shut down mode. In shut down mode, the fuel pump quits running and the fan motors continue (in some models ramp up speed) for a few minutes until all the last drops of fuel are burned off and the system cools down a bit.

Doug at Scan
 
Re-priming:

If you have run your unit dry in preparation for storage, when you go to re-start after storage, the device will need to be re-primed. To do this, you typically just need to start the device a couple times until it pulls fuel up the line and starts up. When you shut down again, it will be ready to go from then on as long as your tank has fuel in it. Some notes:

1. If you are running a kerosene device, PLEASE replace fuel every year.
2. Your unprimed Wallas device will usually fill a 3 foot or shorter dry line and start on the first try. More dry line than this may mean needing multiple tries. Please wait a couple minutes between tries.
3. Wallas 85D, 86D, 87D, 22 Dt, 30 Dt and 40 Dt devices all have a "lock out" feature to prevent repeated starting without inspection for cause of failed starts. Owners of these devices should be familiar with how to clear "lockout", outlined in the Ops manual for your specific device.

Doug at Scan
 
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