Wallas or not?

dogon dory":34swr89a said:
We run the heater about 80% of the time and it would be awfully nice to have it circulating down around the feet and up forward. When the cabin door is opened while fishing etc. or when your in the vee berth, the countertop settup doesn't work so good.
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Re.: this complaint, we have an oscillating fan mounted to the underside of the electronics shelf which can be rotated straight down towards the floor. It'll even out the cabin heat in a jiffy, but is perhaps a bit much for overnight use. I highly recommend it.

And in general, when we were looking to convert to the Wallas, which BTW didn't take us long, I queried Les Lampman about some of the complaints that we'd read about them. He assured me that there are a lot of them in use, and not just in boats, and that overall they work quite well. I think we hear more of the complaints than comments from the satisfied owners. Not that they don't have their quirks or may ultimately require some servicing, but they are pretty compact and clever units. After all, seven million Finlanders can't all be wrong!

Al
 
Yes, Pat. Some alternative would be good. The current heat pump, A/C unit may be ok down here for part of the season, but when the water gets cold, those little heat pumps take a very long time to warm up the cabin! I've been in big Marine Trader Trawlers freezing my butt off in October while the heat pump was chugging away for days and never caught up.

And, ducted, hot, dry air is just what the doctor ordered for BOATS, esp. in humid areas. Having the top 1/3 of the cabin warm and bottom 2/3 clammy is not much of a way to spend the weekend.

So, yes, I am wondering if the C-Ranger ppl might consider a ducted, hot air furnace of some sort. My favorite boating time is thru the winter. Here, you have the lakes to yourself, and with the higher surface oxygen, the stripers and other big fish actually feed on the surface so you can fly fish for stripers!

Let me know if you find anything out about that..... I have already asked them about 200 questions!!!! John
 
Moose,,,,, the Finlanders are really a hardy crew. My middle son taught there at Vassa University for a short time. Riding bicycles to work on 3 inch ice covered streets, then all piling (naked) into a steam house while pouring down the firewater, then jumping into the water thru the closest ice hole is their idea of a fun Friday nite! So, a little clammy cold in the bunk area probably feels like a grandmother's hug to them! John
 
Preference ? Yes but.

Having used a number of other systems for years, I looked back at my experiences, like and dislikes, examined what was new and expressed my preference by buying a Wallas for many of the reasons that have been quoted herein.

For the few minutes that it worked correctly I was happy and even installed a teak, raised surround to improve the airflow.

If I look back over the postings on this forum (and there have been others in the past) I think it would be fair to say that most people like the Wallas when it is working correctly. Maybe a bit quirky and noisy but overall pretty functional.

Then there is another group like me who have had totally disfunctional units, which did not get fixed by the manufacturer.
That experience has driven some people totally off the concept.

I am still hoping to get a functional unit but if that does not work then I will admit my preference was wrong and go for something that I can fix and maintain myself. Here I agree with a previous post. There are elements about the Wallas that are beyond what one can be expected to do.

At the moment I have the luxury of the unit still being under warranty but I do wonder how much it will cost me per year once it is me paying for the parts, repair time etc.

For most of us (apologies to our Alaskan brothers) a heater/stove is a convenience item that, at worst should cause a cancelled trip.
At the moment, my Wallas is an expensive inconvenience and a safety hazard for reasons that even the manufacturer failed to fix the first time around.
 
I have never been exposed to the Wallas but have had Espar. The forced air furnaces are great. I only had one problem with it in the ten years I used it. The control module quit working. That is a several hundred dollar unit to replace. But it worked great the rest of the time, and operated off the main diesel tank. I believe the same can be said of Webasto. They both have integrated systems that can also heat domestic water at the same time. At some point in time in the not real distant future I will purchase a larger C-Dory and will have to decide. But right now I am considering forced air heat and a microwave for cooking. Maybe a small butane or propane burner as auxillary. I can always carry the honda generator to run the microwave, or just use an inverter. A lot will depend on the climate I will be operating in. Many members of the sailing community, especially in Puget Sound, have had the Wallas products over the years and they too have had somewhat mixed opinions. Not a lot of complaints but enough to be noticeable.
 
drjohn71a":1mh9iuin said:
Moose,,,,, the Finlanders are really a hardy crew.
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Well now, at the risk of ruining this thread entirely, I have to confess that I am 100% Finn. Why I even tried to turn the cockpit on the MOOSE into a sauna once with our full camper canvas up and a pail of rocks on the Magma BBQ, but it was more trouble than it was worth and I ultimately thought better of it. But the real one is in the back yard and available, summer or winter, to any itinerant C-Brats and it works just fine. We take a sauna once a week, whether we need it or not! LOL
Al
 
moose,

I hope you remember your tradition of making sure your system is full of "anti-freeze" and .... No, let's forget about the birch Twigs... and the beatings etc etc etc. You should have lots of soul mates in AK !!

Is it true that every other person is called Matti ?
Lots of laughs and fond memories for me in your old country but I have to say, Thanks to the sea gods that they wrote the road signs in Swedish as well as Finnish or I would still be there.
Merv
 
My Wallas has always been extremely difficult. Now in its 3rd year, and after sending it in, cleaning it numerous times, checking the voltage, fuses, fuse junctions, etc., etc., etc., it runs for 20 minutes and quits.

As for diesel and lubrication, that was a repeated quote from Karl by me. It is so often questioned I now regret I repeated it. At any rate, no matter what fuel is used, I will not recommend a Wallas on remote voyages for heat unless you carry an alternative. They are unreliable.
 
Gotta be a lemon. I've had Wallas in 6 different boats with no problems - the last one has been operating AFAIK without trouble since 1989. I know some skippers have problems, but wonder what a large sample size would show. Not necessarily the way I'd go next time, but Wallas reliability would not be part of the decision-making process. There are diesel-fired furnaces I've seen installed, with a thermostat, that are really worth looking at. And I'd rather cook with propane (external tank with shutoff!!).

Just another opinion from the old boat-rocker -

Dusty
 
...it runs for 20 minutes and quits.
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Now don't get mad at me for suggesting it might be something so simple, but have you tried leaving the cupboard doors beneath the stove open? I installed a drawer box under my stove that comes up to within 2" of the stove underside (the top of the box is well insulated). Even with an oversize vent in the galley front, the stove will shut off due to overheat after about - get this - 20 minutes if the blower lid fan is not running. I simply bent the tang that shuts off the fan when the lid is raised so it continues to run, thus drawing plenty of cooling air across the underside of the stove. It doesn't shut off anymore.

If you should happen to be lucky enough to find the stove will stay running with the cupboard doors open, then enlarging the vent cutout in the cabinet front might help. It's a free thing to check.
 
TyBoo":39fg3lx6 said:
I installed a drawer box under my stove that comes up to within 2" of the stove underside (the top of the box is well insulated).
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Now, that's interesting because I found some nifty plastic bin-type drawers at the local discount store that just and so fit in the space under the Wallas and there are absolutely no signs of them having gotten too hot. And I'll bet the clearance is only about 3/4". So no signs of overheating here.

And Merv, you are correct. Finnish is hardly the language of the Gods!

Al
 
Now don't get mad at me for suggesting it might be something so simple, but have you tried leaving the cupboard doors beneath the stove open?
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I've done that and agree it is probably the overheat sensor (this time), but I've had it with the Wallas at this point. It is simply a very expensive 20 minute burger cooker.

Dusty: I understand your sentiments, and I'm not saying don't get a Wallas, but if you do, there's enough of us having problems, and enough of us in love with it, that at least you have a decent shot at getting something working fine or something you'll have to fix, fiddle with, modify, read tea leaves over, or pray for. Maybe "unreliable" was a bit harsh. Again -- I would never go in a remote area with a Wallas as my sole heat source -- the trust is gone for me.
 
Moose,

Actually it's my Grandkids who christened me Grumpy and they keep buying me T shirts to prove it.

In this case I reckon it's not being overly nasty to be upset about being driven out of the cabin by white evoporated diesel vapor.

Probably I am too nice about it and after the first (failed) attempt to fix it by the manufacturer, I actually tried many of the tricks I read in this forum short of stripping it down and have them tell me I blew the warranty.

I still have an open mind and the unit is back with Karl.

The only reason I told the story is that even though the Wallas concept is inherently safe and there are millions of them, there appears to be a failure mode which is very dangerous. And by the way this happens with all the doors wide open and me holding a fire extinguisher !

I agree with Dusty, it's probably a lemon and I hope they can fix it. It may not be perfect but at least I will be able to make coffee and I have many layers of clothes.

Merv
 
Having had my public "Grump" about my Wallas, I must now be fair and say thanks to Karl and Mike at Scan Marine, I have achieved the minor miracle of converting Diesel into boiling water and heating (more) the cabin without either catching fire os suffocating anyone.

Special thanks to Mike for goig over ALL they symptoms with me and his painstaking explanation of the many detailed "tweaks" he tried to make it work. He really knows all those small issues that are no problem on their own but which can add up to a unit that does not work.

I have not had a chance to do a long test yet but today it fired right up and worked as I expected it to do.

Thanks guys !!

Merv
 
I have witnessed a minor miracle as well. Mine started, stayed lit past 20 minutes, and since I was plugged into shorepower I simply let it run for 24 hours (at 1/2 flame). That's plenty to cook a burger, soup, or heat down here (although I carry a George Forman Grill, and Microwave so have plenty to cook with). Doubtful it would stay fired up full on, but I'll take what I can get at this point. No smoke in the cabin (Karl warned me that might happen when I got it back and it did for some time).
 
I almost ordered a Wallas for our 22, but then read about how they really heat up the cabin in the summer. Our 22 came with out any stove in the gally and we purchased a butane single burner from Cutter Marine. It works perfectly. We just came back from a trip on the Erie Canal and temps were near 100 degrees. I just did the cooking in the cockpit and the cabin stayed much cooler. Plus we have a lot of counter space when not useing the stove. The butane stove will turn down real low to simmer soup or a stew. If we boat in cold weather we go to a dock and get 110 for our cube space heater.

Fred and Pat-Red Lion, Pa.
 
We have been using our Wallas for the past almost six years, often twice a day for months at a time. It worked well until about a year ago -- wouldn't start without 110 v power or totally charged battery. Probably the igniter -- there were some noisy fan things and noisy functioning, so we decided it was time for a new stove. Ordered one from ScanMarine in January at the boat show -- discovered the new ones have slanting lids (not a good idea in a galley with so little counter space. Was told they were going to rebuild new ones with flat lids, and told they should arrive by March. March came and went and phone calls to ScanMarine assured us they were en route. April came and went.

We left for Alaska, up the BC coast, May. Needed a stove so picked up a camping propane cooker -- not the best choice aboard a boat, we think, but that's how we cooked all summer unless hooked to a dock with 110 v and then the Wallas worked.

Still no Wallas -- well, its been almost nine months waiting for a stove with less than perfect track record with other users -- seems like throwing dice in Vegas whether the new stoves will be a lemon or fail soon after installation. So, we quit on Wallas. Finicky, over-engineered, prone to failure, expensive fix 'em up for too many folks and we have run out of patience waiting for a replacement.

Now to check out the alternatives. So, we're at the same point that many others are now in and reading this thread with great interest. We assume the factory must have the same difficulty.
 
Bill/El:

There are a couple of fuses/fuse-holders (probably coming direct off the battery) that someone has noted tend to corrode and when they do give the symptom you're describing (only starts with full charge or shorepower). You're probably like most of us and have tried just about everything at this point but if you haven't done that one it might be the one right thing.

Now I'm going to go down and sprinkle some tea leaves over mine and see if it will run at half flame again . . . (if it does I'll keep it).
 
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