Wallas or not?

Yes, Mac, you are just lucky - count your blessings until your Wallas decides to crap out on you! Actually, we have had three good years with our Wallas(es) - it is just that we live in fear of it crapping out again on us, and the horror stories do not inspire confidence. IF we get another boat, I just don't see it having a Wallas, that's all...

Big Mac":tk2he3be said:
The Mary Ellen just turned 5 years old the 16th of July. I have used the Wallas with K-1 other than the first tank, which was diesel. I have never had a problem, starts very easily and does everything asked of it. Maybe we are just lucky, but I am a big fan of the Wallas stove. I start it several times during the winter when the boat is stored in my shop. Just my two cents worth, Big Mac.
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I've had the Wallas 1300 heater in Snoopy-C for 5 years, and burn K-1 kerosene exclusively. Never a problem once during that time. Granted, it doesn't work for cooking, and it only has one heat setting, but it works great for the specific use I need. Also, it is around $800, plus the fittings and stove pipe. Not cheap, but not $2000. Ron on Snoopy-C
 
They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I've posted several photos of the Webasto heater and Kenyon stove on C-Cakes album (page 2 of albums). Sorry I don't yet know how to post them directly here
 
I had the opportunity to see the Webasto on C-Cakes at the Bellingham gathering. Of particular interest to me was the fact that warm air is ducted on to the floor in two places (warm air at your feet is much more desirable than warm air at your waist) and as Barry mentioned quite possibly can be ducted up towards his front windows for defrosting. Another attractive feature of the Webasto is the thermostat control for the system. My only concern with it on the 22' is that much of the installation is in the lower rear "reaches" of the cabinet and the metalic parts would most likely interfere with the accuracy of the fluxgate compass for the auto pilot that is mounted there. (As you know the fluxgate compass needs to be installed low and towards the center of the vessel in order to work properly).

If the installation could be altered so as to not create a problem with the fluxgate, then I'd consider that if I were to do it all over. Fortunately, I've not experienced any problems with our Wallas, but after hearing of other folks problems, I am "edgy" about it. Additionally, I have printed off all the threads from this site that have to do with "Wallas Problems" and their remedies and keep this info on the boat in case I should ever experience a "similar" problem. I too have used the Klean Heat without problem and the Klean Heat I am currently using was purchased two months before I took delivery on "Sea Shift" in April of '04.
 
I just Googled the Kenyon stoves and found the single burner recessed type listed on the Kenyon web site. However, when looking for a source to buy from, the only listing was from Fore and Aft Marine and they show the product as discontinued.

Kenyon does make a table top single burner called the Express II that is sold by several suppliers for around $55. For an additional $60, there is an optional pot holder and a permanent mounting bracket kit available which will bring the installation to A3 compliance of the ABYC standards.

I couldn't get sufficient information on the nature of the butane tank and its fittings to determine whether or not there is anything that might be prone to developing a leak. The thought of a bilge full of butane doesn't exactly excite me.

The Webasto heaters appear to have an excellent reputation for marine applications.
 
In the past I have used both Alcohol and Propane fuelled systems and had no real problems with either. As has very correctly pointed out, ANY form of combustible fuel can be a problem. One has to manage the problem, do the maintenance and be careful. If you do not then any one of them can kill you.

I chose the Wallas based on the same thought process that many of you did. I come from an aviation engineering management background and the Wallas concept has a number of good features and should be safer than most solutions.

Even after the "Tale of woe" so far, I still have a fairly open mind provided it can be fixed and made to work correctly and not fail every month or so just 'cos it has food allergies. I don't even mid too much if it "sings" to me, I will even fill it with Vodka if that's what it takes (worked with all my previous Scandinavian friends). But I do want it to work without either setting fire to the boat or suffocating the inhabitants.

I will see what the next week brings as response from Scan Marine. Meanwhile, heat is the last thing I need while I am hauling crab pots and those darned salmon things had better watch out too.

Merv
 
I have a Wallas 2-burner in my CD-22, and I'm ambivalent about it. In Carabelle, Florida, in January, 2005, it got down to 19 degrees fahrenheit, and the stove worked so well, on the lowest setting, I had to keep the door cracked open to stay cool. Later, in May, in Atlantic City, during a noreaster, with a high in the 40's, the Wallas blew its 2-amp fuse when I tried to start it. I called the factory; they said to put in a 5-amp fuse (i.e. get a bigger hammer :-). When I did that, smoke started coming out from underneath the stove, and the smell of burning insulation filled the cabin. Fortunately, the electrician who wired in my inverter, put the stove on a switch so I could immediately shut off power to it (the factory recommends that you have the stove connected directly to the battery; normally the stove takes several minutes to cycle off). I mailed my stove back to the dealer; got it back, along with a note that they could find nothing wrong with it, though they did replace some parts. It works now, but I worry every time I turn it on.
 
How is the noise on the Webasto fan? Does it have multiple settings?

That's one thing I can't stand about the Wallas. I find the fan noise, even on low, difficult to sleep with.
 
A couple of comments--we don't find the Wallas too noisey. On the other hand, our lives are filled with fans and airconditioning in Florida, so it is sort of a "white noise" for sleeping.

Coleman or other cartrage type of stoves inside a boat. I realize that people do this, but it is a very dangerous practice. I have seen the seals of the cartrage fail as it was being inserted, the propane began to burn/explode. The person threw the stove out--and in the entire process sustained 3 dr degree burns over greater than 30% of his body, including face and lungs.
My friend had over $1,000,000 in medical bills, spent over 3 months in a burn center, on a respirator and dialysis and was in a coma over 7 weeks.

The chance of that happening, is just too high to pay for the convience of using a coleman stove (or any other of this type of appliance) inside of a cabin. As a Physician I have seen other cases of failure of these propane cartrages--keep them outside!
 
Since we are based in Maine waters, our Wallas has been used quite often for heat and cooking. Has burned diesel and kerosene and have yet to have a problem, provided start-up voltage is adequate. Ours was a retro-fit and sits up 1/2" above the countertop surface helping the heat to travel out above the teak fiddle rail. 3/4" or 1" would be better, or cut the teak lower in front of the hot air discharge area. This unit and our floor boards have added to our comfort immensely.
 
I hear and agree with everyone. When the stove works it is a joy. I have taken my unit out at least seven times for repair fixing ect.. since 2000. Beforecoming up to Southeast this summer I sent mine in for a cleaning and the thing crapped out on me while out in a remote spot. Captain Tonie was unwilling to continue without heat so she called scan and had them send a new unit express mail to Pelican, Ak. I refused to spend another dime or minute of my time on the 1999 Wallas.

The newer unit is a great improvment. A stainless cage protects the board and the fuel pump and power leads are reversed so that wires go toward the battery instead of the helm. The fan motors are now sealed and much better. I could never run my old one on a low setting while the new unit starts up easy and moderates extremely well. Perhaps my 1999 model was a lemon - no it was a lemon and I only regret not showing it the 100 fathom line a couple years ago. The old one was never reliable and twice while up here quit, fans died, circuits blew on the board-- ARH!

Needing to cook and stay warm is vital and the Wallas is still the best option and I can see for a boat like ours. The redesign having addresses all the things. that I went though on my earlier version. I admit to having hundreds of hours on my unit between fishing on Monterey Bay at home and spending summers here. For you that like to cook, you can place larger pans on the newer version. One factor on my new model is that the lid is angled or sloped making it difficultto set pans on it while in heater mode.

Now having installed and operating the new stove since early July, I agin recommend these but the older units are too unreliable for extensive use. I consider the 1600 dollars spent to replace the old unit the best decision made on the stove. Its operation is far superior and the weak points (exposed board and fans) have been addressed. So 87 hours into my 2006 model, my recommendation is don't buy a used one (I regulary replced fans). Performace and design on this new model is super and time will tell but my confidence is restored.

Shawn
 
Thanks Shawn.

Makes me feel even happier to have a 2006 C-dory with what is obviously a 2005 Wallas which is about as good as your 1999 model. Agreed the Wallas is probably the best concept ou there but if you can't turn that into a well engineered and reliable product then it is useless. I am well know for constantly reminding engineers in my own organisation that "The Road to Bankrupcy is paved with Good Inventions" and I have a list of the ones that cost the most in customer support to prove it.

Merv
 
We got our boat in April and actually had to wait for the "new model" Wallas to come in from Finland before we could pick up our boat.
Our stove is still not working and is at Scan Marine as we speak. We have taken it in a total of 3 times and have replaced the thermostat ourselves and done some fuel flow adjustments as recommended by Karl. We had the howling noise and they gave us a new hood for that. Now, we still have the problem with out stove shutting down after 30 - 40 minutes. We have only had our stove run over 40 min once since we got it. The folks at Scan Marine have been wonderful to deal with and have really expressed their sincere apologies for all of the trouble we have had. I really hope that we can get this working because it really is the cooking/heating option that we wanted.

Jeff and Julie
 
The question was how did the propane explode when the seal failed? Answer there was another flame in the area. But someone smoking, a spark etc would do the same thing. I have seen a number of propane explosions victums, and some were portable, others were fixed installation. I am not afraid of fixed, if proper precautions are taken (sniffers, shut off valves)--but I only use the canaster type out of doors.
 
thataway":1f0lkb2r said:
the propane began to burn
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I don't remember the mechanism of the incident, but perhaps someone else will remember........a couple of years ago at a C-Brat Gathering at Langley, some fella emerged from his vessel with a "flaming" propane stove and promptly dumped it in the water to extinguish it. The water continued to bubble until the propane bottle ran out of gas. I'm sure it was frightening for him to say the least. All I remember is the sight of the fella throwing the flaming stove in the drink!
 
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