Wallas or not?

D

drjohn71a

New member
The new C-Rangers have a heat pump, a/c option which I am considering. Having heard all the positive feedback from NW C-Brats about the Wallas, I initially thought I would order that too. Someone recently mentioned that the Wallas had problems if it was not used much. Since most of our season is hot, and the Ranger has engine heat plus the heat pump, I amwondering if installing a Wallas is worth the trouble of maintenance that might be needed since it may not be used much.

So, Do you have to clean out a Wallas if you only use it a time or two a year? Or, Can the Wallas heater be relied upon to work when you need it if it is rarely used?

Any info would be appreciated. John
 
drjohn71a":25elov3w said:
Since most of our season is hot, and the Ranger has engine heat plus the heat pump, I am wondering if installing a Wallas is worth the trouble of maintenance that might be needed since it may not be used much.
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Dumb question, as I'm not familiar with anything other than the Wallas, but...does the heat pump require the engine be running? If so, it would seem to be necessary to have another system in place for when you most need it - night time. And night time heat, even though you may need it infrequently, is not something I'd give up in a boat like this regardless of geographic location.

If you can get heat with the engine off, then I'd pass on the Wallas and investigate a simpler solution for cooking. The things are too dang finicky for my tastes, but they seem to be the best option for those of us with outboards that want heat and cooking.

If you do get the Wallas, I'd read through the archives here and investigate Klean Heat. Many of us have found it to be the best fuel for a Wallas - it doesn't age like kero or diesel, and has virtually no odor. That would preclude you from plumbing the Wallas into the main diesel fuel system - not sure if this is how the factory will plumb them or not.
 
Thanks, Bill. There is a 2.5 KW generator which would have to run to operate the heat pump. That would only work while in the water. I am also worried about the zebra mussels getting into the water lines on the built in generator and heat pump. I had thought the Wallas to be the best overnite option, but someone posted that, if you do not use it much, it clogs.... so that is why I am second guessing that. I thought the Wallas would be nice when working on the boat on the trailer in the winter also. John
 
For what it's worth: I picked up my 22" a few months ago. It is equipped with a Webasto diesel heater and a Kenyon Butane stove. I am extremely pleased with both. I have thermostatically controlled ducted air heat and very low fuel consumption. The stove is only a single burner so on your larger boat you may want to go with a two burner setup . I had been planning on a Wallas but saw many "oops my Wallas..." postings on C-Brats so was happy when Les suggested a Webasto. Many Wallas owners have come to look at the setup at CBGT's and I think several are considering a change away from the Wallas.
 
Thanks for the info, colobear. I am not sure what model of heatpump, A/C unit they are installing. I checked the Webasto site and they seem to make a wide variety. I guess you would use the 12V fan system to circulate the heat. I will keep my eyes open for their units. John
 
Thanks for this thread. I had the wallas on my TC24...and, it was a love/hate relationship. Had to have high clean power from batteries. Enjoyed the Klean Heat much...I mean much....did I say much more than the diesel...for ALL operations. Had issue with the "slip nut" deal on the shaft screwing up the air flow/exhaust (more than likely slipped down when on the interstate system during hauling)....and lost a LOT of the efficiency of being able to run on low setting overnight. Never saw an issue for allowing it to sit long periods...but then... the longest period may have been 4 weeks....and....I used it just about 100% of the time on each trip for something....generally a nice omelt for breakfast...or grilling something for dinners.... which could be handled by the other systems mentioned..... that might not be as "finiky" .... And...I did not like the cool down time it took for the wallas to shut all the way down and stop putting off heat... In the summer that was way more of an issue.

$2500 will puts it for sure in the "let's look around a bit" category, particuarly if it is not already on the boat.

I kinda liked the set up Joel has on SEA3PO (star wars thing)... and wish I had made the gathering to see the other set up.

SO... having said all of that...and not researched the other system talked about here... it is a definate maybe.

Looking foward to hearing/seeing other input.
 
We had the C Dory22 for 3 or 4 seasons. Each time we would fire it up and it came on perfectly--Used for about 2 weeks a year and no problems between. We used "Liquid candle wax"--a highly refined kerosene as I under stand it.
 
thanks, Bob. Apparently using the more refined fuel is the answer. I also remember someone thinking that the refined fuel did not have enough 'lubricating' action, but 3-4 years without a significant problem is pretty darned good in my book! John
 
We have the Wallas on Kingfisher and have had nothing but trouble with it since delivery last Oct.
We obeyed ALL the finicky instructions about how to turn it on/off, used only brand new "dairy fresh" diesel as recommended by Scan Marine and still the damned thing howls like a banshee about 2 minutes after start-up.

After long discussions with Karl at Scan Marine I took it out and brought it to him. After about 2 weeks and paying for shipment, I get it back with the claim that nothing is wrong with it.

Well, it still howls, but now it has a new trick. It drips diesel and fills the cabin with a white mist which is most definitely a health and safety hazard. When I took the boat to EQ for the 20 Hr engine check I had them try it with the same results.

I have looked into it far enough to see that it is the little black impeller which is making the howling noise (which stops after about 3 minutes) and I have removed the bottom plate just enough to verify that everything is covered in a fine mist of diesel under what I assume is the burner unit. I am not going to take it apart anymore as it is still a warranty claim but this week it is going back in a box to Scan Marine and if it does not get fixed this time I will take further action with them.

In the meantime I feel obligated to ensure that everyone here knows about what can be a clear health and safety issue with this unit.

We did look at Barry (C-Cakes) system while in Bellingham and would put it in in one minute if it wasn't for thowing another $2K down the tubes on top of having just paid for a "Wallas that won't".

I am hoping that I will be pleasantly surprised but it will be a long while before I try to get cosy in an enclosed cabin with this particular Scandinavian product.

Merv in a really Grumpy mood.
 
thataway":3fbso6mg said:
We had the C Dory22 for 3 or 4 seasons. Each time we would fire it up and it came on perfectly--Used for about 2 weeks a year and no problems between. We used "Liquid candle wax"--a highly refined kerosene as I under stand it.
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Bob, whats the shelf life on this stuff, and have you found it locally?
Everytime one of these threads comes up, someone mentions, as do the instructions(I think) something called parafin( the elusive "liquid candle wax"?).
I've only lit the wallas on our boat a couple of times, but its worked well both times. I've only used Diesel so far.

Grumpy, make em fix it right. If its working correctly you'll love it. Theres just a hint of diesel smell when it lites off, after that its "good to go".
 
katkt":23v6dawg said:
Bob, whats the shelf life on this stuff, and have you found it locally?
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I'll let Bob reply as to the "liquid candle wax", but I've been told by Klean Heat that their product has virtually unlimited shelf life. Condensation might be an issue, depending on how/where it's stored, but the fuel doesn't gum up or grow critters like kero/diesel.

As to longevity in the tank - I fired up my Wallas last week, which had 1/2 a tank of Klean Heat in it and had not been used for almost a year. After ensuring the batteries were fully charged, it fired right up.

From what I've read here for the last couple years, Wallas failures fall into two camps - bad fuel and electrical/mechanical. It seems like the problems are fairly evenly split between the two, and I'm pretty convinced you can virtually eliminate the fuel issues by going with Klean Heat.

At least, I've never seen a report where replacing old Klean Heat solved anything. There have been plenty of posts where replacing old kero/diesel did the trick.
 
Here in Kansas there is alot of Klean Heat available in the winter, but hard to find in the summer. Apparently shelf life is not a problem, so some winter stocking up might be in order. John
 
NOT. If after our sea trial we get the C-Ranger 25, and I surely hope we do, it will have a Webasto like C-Cakes and probably a butane stove. The Wallas on our CD22 crapped out in 2003, and C-Dory & Scan Marine did replace it. But there are too many stories of the Wallas failing, most recently Bill and El's on Halcyon while they were in Alaska, but we have heard several other stories, including Merv (Grumpy) at Bellingham. They are great when they work, but they are just too darn complicated. We live in fear of snagging a wire or damaging a circuit board with our under-galley shelves because the underside of the Wallas is totally unprotected. They are very sensitive to voltage on start-up. Evidently the new design does not have a flat lid, so you can't put your pot or tea kettle on it when the lid is closed. Now, if Merv's complaint is accurate, and I see no reason to doubt it, you could have a very hard time getting Scan Marine to stand behind their product the way we have come to expect C-Dory to. The Webasto plus butane stove combo suffers none of these problems - seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
Well.....O.K., what model webasto and butane? And why butane and not a propane stove? And will the Webasto act as a water heater too? I've never owned a boat with either and also have an R25 on order.
 
Don't know the particular model of the Webasto, Barry on C-Cakes can fill that in, but it is really the cat's meow. Might be a propane stove would be OK, or even better from an economy standpoint, but the little butane cylinders are sure convenient. I don't think the Webasto is a water heater - and the electric water heater on our CD25 is great but you only have hot water when you have shore power or run the generator (takes 30 - 40 minutes to heat the water), so a propane hot water heater would seem to have it all over the electric heater. In fact, on the Alaska trip, we just heated a kettle of water for dishes, was plenty of water, easier and faster.


sportner":f6dfom2g said:
Well.....O.K., what model webasto and butane? And why butane and not a propane stove? And will the Webasto act as a water heater too? I've never owned a boat with either and also have an R25 on order.
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Da Nag, thankyou for the reply regarding the klean Heat. We've run across a couple of bumps in the road that have restricted our boating, and the long term storage of diesel, has been on my mind.

Gordon
 
Pat-

About your comment about the little cannisters: I have a 5 gallon (20 lb, really) tank in my engine well, so that any leaks will "drain" overboard.

Use propane to cook: -Gaffers and Sattler 3 burner cook stove,

and heat-Force 10 Cozy Cabin Heater.

Down here. the tank gets filled once a year or so!

Joe.
 
colobear-

How well does the Webasto fit into the boat?

Is it about right or too powerful (cycling on and off constantly)?

What's the price tag? $2500-$3500?

Joe.
 
The Mary Ellen just turned 5 years old the 16th of July. I have used the Wallas with K-1 other than the first tank, which was diesel. I have never had a problem, starts very easily and does everything asked of it. Maybe we are just lucky, but I am a big fan of the Wallas stove. I start it several times during the winter when the boat is stored in my shop. Just my two cents worth, Big Mac.
 
The stove is a Kenyon "KISS Cook Top" The numbers on the owner's manual are: CE0063 AT 1554 and the model is either B23015 or B23017. Their website is: WWW.Kenyonappliances.com Ph:(860) 664-4906. The heater is a Webasto model AT 2000. It is rated at 7,000BTU and 65CFM. Their website is: WWW.suremarine.com Ph: (800) 562-7797.

The heater is just cabin air, not hot water. Webasto makes many models and may have one that does it all. Mine is their smallest. I have given some thought to adding ductwork that would allow me to use it for window defrost, I think it would work fine for that. I bought it with the boat from Les at EQ and they installed it. I got a question about amperage draw and I don't know the answer to that. I have never had a power problem with it. Frankly it works so well with the thermostat that it just cycles on and off as needed and power draw is intermittent. As it was part of the boat package I don't have the price at the tip of my tongue but I can probably find out. It has a 3 gallon diesel fuel tank that is filled through an outside fuel line just like the main gas tanks. I was told the fuel consumption was so low I would likely not need to refill the tank this season, we'll see. One issue is that there is no way to determine how much fuel is left, no gauge I've got to figure that out sometime. By the way. There is absolutely no diesel odor... nada.

The stove is efficient and the small butane cylinders inexpensive and readily available. I have not used the stove very much and am still on the first canister so I can't give any empirical data for how long they last.

Hope this helps.
 
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