Wallas cooktop/heater

R

rick krahn

New member
I'm specing out a new 22' Cruiser for delivery in May 2022, hopefully. I'm a little stuck on the cooktop/heater decision since the factory is currently only offering the Wallas which seems to me is overpriced at $4,800 installed. On the other hand given the price of the boat and knowing that someday I'll be selling it I don't want to cheap out on such an important piece of equipment. So far any other options seem like quite a downgrade from the Wallas. What do you guys think?
 
Id rather use butane for cooking and have a forced air diesel furnace for heat. $4,800 seems way too much for something that doesn't do either task very well. I'd probably just pass on a factory install, and install an Espar or Chinese copy once I got the boat. Some people like the Wallas, Im not one of them.
 
You are in Camas, so PNW. I am not a cook so won't get into the Wallas cooking capability. But I do use my Wallas for heating the boat. It will do that, and IF you follow the instructions from Scan Marine, the Wallas is an effective heater.
It is also a diesel or Kerosene heater, so no propane worries. If you can do the install yourself, A Wallas Forced Air, Wabasto or Espar or similar heater is probably more efficient for heating, but then you have to have a cooking option along too. I like that the Wallas can do both. Also I believe the newer ones are far less problematic than the older versions. Yes, It is a pricey option, but it is nearly a C-Dory standard and most folks like to be able to eat and stay warm on the boat. I's vote for including the Wallas cooktop unless you are going to put in some other heat source.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I think 4800 bucks is an insane price. You can buy all the parts and the stove for the install from Scan for about 3 grand. They are not hard to install in my opinion, and don't really require any special knowledge, tools, or expertise. It certainly is not worth $1,800 bucks from my viewpoint.
 
hardee":91qocm12 said:
You are in Camas, so PNW. I am not a cook so won't get into the Wallas cooking capability. But I do use my Wallas for heating the boat. It will do that, and IF you follow the instructions from Scan Marine, the Wallas is an effective heater.
It is also a diesel or Kerosene heater, so no propane worries. If you can do the install yourself, A Wallas Forced Air, Wabasto or Espar or similar heater is probably more efficient for heating, but then you have to have a cooking option along too. I like that the Wallas can do both. Also I believe the newer ones are far less problematic than the older versions. Yes, It is a pricey option, but it is nearly a C-Dory standard and most folks like to be able to eat and stay warm on the boat. I's vote for including the Wallas cooktop unless you are going to put in some other heat source.

Harvey
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I really have to part company with Harvey here. You are at the point where you can tell the factory to omit the Wallas, which IMHO would be the best thing for you to do. After the Wallas is in the boat, your options will be severely limited.

The Wallas is neither a good heater nor a good cooktop. The heat comes out too high and cannot be ducted. In the heating realm, a Webasto is many times over better. As a cooktop it heats up and cools down way too slowly, lacks fine temperature control for cooking, and is way too finicky, as voltage cannot be even a little too low for it to start, and heaven help you if you run out of fuel and need to re-prime to restart it. There are only two kinds of Wallas owners: those who have had problems, and those who are going to. Harvey has skated, pretty sure his time will come, and his Wallas will quit on him when he is in Alaska!

That leaves cooking. We opted for a one burner butane stove that we can use in the cabin with a window and the door open, and a one burner propane stove that we use in the cockpit. There are other options, but these are the ones that work for us.

 
I agree with Pat's answer. I have a Webasto that does a great job at heating the cabin. And unlike the Wallas, which is either on or off, you can control the temperature with the Webasto and it will cycle off and on as needed. BTW, if I were buying a boat with a Chinese knock off rather than the real Webasto, I would knock down the price accordingly. (I have nothing against some Chinese products, most the time, but the heater is not one of them!) A small portable butane stove does a great job for cooking and you can use it anywhere you like. Colby
 
We had the factory install our Wallas four years ago when our boat was built. We love our Wallas and if we had to do it over again we would get another. Make sure you always turn the unit on in the high setting and shut the unit down in the high setting. Once a month run the unit for about 15 minutes and by doing this it should give you trouble free service for many years. We run the stove at a low setting at night and circulate the air from the forward berth to the main cabin while we sleep with a small 4 inch electric fan. The stove does help keep condensation down in the boat by doing this.
 
It really depends if you want to cook onboard often or not. The wallas heats the boat ok around here, but for cooking it is slow. The newer models are probably better than my old 95D, but I have upgraded to a diesel forced air furnace and a propane cooktop. I might add the cost to add propane, cooktop, and diesel furnace is far less than the $4800 if you do the install yourself.
 
The guy that services wallas cooktops (and about everything else hot) in Anchorage at Polar Marine says the newer ones rarely give trouble. He has much different words for the older models - like the one that is now sitting on a shelf in my shed that I can't get a circuit board for because they don't feel like making it any longer. I actually like the wallas for what it is. I think it is ok to cook with and heats your boat pretty well if it isn't very cold out. Mine provided around 12-13 or so years of trouble free service and would be working right now if it weren't for the board issue. 4800 bucks though, is highway robbery in my book.
 
The webasto is a cheap knock off of the Eberspacher. The Chinese heaters are nearly identical to webasto heaters - at least fundamentally. The Eberspacher heaters are superior....maybe. If I had it to do all over again I would probably lean towards Warmda heaters, since they copied the Eberspacher and actually improved upon it here and there. Then again, lots of Planar heaters out there too - the Russian copy of the Eberspacher. Lots of cloning going on with these heaters and I'm not totally convinced at this point that in operation they are really any different from one another.
 
My boat came with a Wallas and I have also installed a Wabatso and the combination is excellent for heating and some cooking. Especially if you attract bad weather like I do off Vancouver Island and other places. I also use a cheap $20 Korean butane stove and a Jet Boil. I like the Wallas in the morning, it has slow heat, I warm the cabin and I heat my coffee, make a thermos of hot water for later in the day and sometimes if we don't need an early start, we put the dutch oven on it and make biscuits or muffins. We do most of our cooking on the butane stove and often in the cockpit on top of the cooler. The steam from the cooking stays outside and doesn't soak the cabin, the fish and bacon smell stays outside. If I want a fast cup of coffee the jet boil is the fastest stove for this. The Wabatso which we just installed last year is a far superior heater with the forced air and is amazingly fuel efficient. For me the Wallas did not supply enough heat to dry out the cabin, but the Wabatso does. This is the combo that I use, because the boat came with the Wallas and I have had zero problems with it.

If I was in your shoes and buying a new boat, I would not spend $4,800 on a Wallas. i would take a quarter of the money and install a Wabatso or Espar (I'm German, so no Chinese heater for me). Then I would go down to your local Asian Super Market and spend $20 on a butane stove and a $20 more on a bunch of butane canisters (cheaper at the Asian SuperMarket than at the camping store) Take the rest of the money and spend it on cruising, fuel, moorage, dinners out etc. If you decide to do something more permanent in the future you still have that option and no holes in your counter top.
 
The second paragraph is gold.....I'm German so no Chinese heater for me, but you really should buy everything from the Asian Super Market.....Dear Lord :-)

Peter & Judy":3ktve8z0 said:
My boat came with a Wallas and I have also installed a Wabatso and the combination is excellent for heating and some cooking. Especially if you attract bad weather like I do off Vancouver Island and other places. I also use a cheap $20 Korean butane stove and a Jet Boil. I like the Wallas in the morning, it has slow heat, I warm the cabin and I heat my coffee, make a thermos of hot water for later in the day and sometimes if we don't need an early start, we put the dutch oven on it and make biscuits or muffins. We do most of our cooking on the butane stove and often in the cockpit on top of the cooler. The steam from the cooking stays outside and doesn't soak the cabin, the fish and bacon smell stays outside. If I want a fast cup of coffee the jet boil is the fastest stove for this. The Wabatso which we just installed last year is a far superior heater with the forced air and is amazingly fuel efficient. For me the Wallas did not supply enough heat to dry out the cabin, but the Wabatso does. This is the combo that I use, because the boat came with the Wallas and I have had zero problems with it.

If I was in your shoes and buying a new boat, I would not spend $4,800 on a Wallas. i would take a quarter of the money and install a Wabatso or Espar (I'm German, so no Chinese heater for me). Then I would go down to your local Asian Super Market and spend $20 on a butane stove and a $20 more on a bunch of butane canisters (cheaper at the Asian SuperMarket than at the camping store) Take the rest of the money and spend it on cruising, fuel, moorage, dinners out etc. If you decide to do something more permanent in the future you still have that option and no holes in your counter top.
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$4,800 plus tax is high. Installing it myself would be too big a job. I love our wallas and would be concerned about other cooking methods when underway, I actually do need a set of those Wallas pot retainers since I have been cooking when a pilot boat got too close. I have two kids on board so safety is the most important and feeding them warm food goes a long way, as well as my wife. For heat there are better options as it doesn’t keep a 25 warm when it’s freezing out but for 2 in 1 it’s pretty good.

If you skip it and are boat poor a mr buddy could do you until you get a diesel heater.

Has any installed a fan heater that also does hot water?

What’s a new 22 coming in at price wise?
 
I had a Kenyon butane stove until the seals failed. I got a used Wallas, but then decided that trying to fit it, get it to work, and maintaining it would be more trouble than it was worth.

Ended up with two butane stoves for cooking, a big one and a small one. The advantages to the butane stoves is that I can use one or the other or both as the cooking situation demands. They can be used in the cockpit or even taken ashore for a cookout.

I have a Little Buddy heater and an electric heater (when shore power or the generator is available) for heating. My demands for heating are probably less than those in the PNW.
 
Just our two cents: we had a Wallas. It came with the boat which was fitted out already.

It was neither a good stove nor a good heater. It took a long time to boil water and we had a hard time controlling the heat output when cooking. It only gave us one trouble and that was on start up with low voltage on our house bank. I unplugged it, charged the battery and it again worked without issue.

The Admiral did not like cooking on it; we have natural gas at home.

As a heater it heated the cabin from counter height (obviously). As we all,learned in elementary school warm air rises, so the cabin always appeared cold, despite me cranking it up full. Again, The Admiral did not like it.

I ended up pulling it out, selling it and making a new counter. I installed a dedicated Espar Airtronic diesel heater under the counter, one that blows heated air from the toe-kick in the galley. That heater puts out plenty enough heat and dries the cabin in the morning. The Admiral, who is always “literally freezing” (her words) approves.

We cook on a single burner butane stove that we store when not in use.
 
I'm in the diesel, forced air, ducted heater camp. I am also in the $20 butane, movable cook stove camp. Which together gives you back a lot of useable counter space.

However, I would add a wrinkle. The cheap butane stoves do a great job of cooking IMO; but if you have to boil a lot of water (e.g., cook crab, make pasta), you will burn up those butane cylinders fast. I bought a relatively inexpensive Coleman single burner that mounts on a standard 1 pound propane green tank. The 1 pound tank lasts a long time, and is far cheaper BTU for BTU than the butane cylinders (even at $2 Asian super market prices). I re-full the 1 pound propane tanks with an adaptor from a 20 pound propane tank.....and that makes using the propane stove to boil water or other high BTU tasks dirt cheap.
 
The other thing to keep in mind about butane is that the boiling point is about 32 degrees. Add in the fact that as the pressure in the can reduces, it gets colder and you'll find that on frosty mornings getting a butane stove to work well can be a trial.

When its cold, the more you use it, the less pressure you get. Putting the canister in the sun or under your arm helps. Eventually the stove or the environment heats up enough to get good operation from the butane.

That all said, IMO the benefits of a portable butane stove outweigh the negatives.
 
I'd be careful about using a Mr. Buddy to heat the boat. They add to the condensation and also the concern of CO2. I had a Kenyon KISS stove in my 22, and it failed. Specifically flamed up where flames were not suppose to be! You can google and see that this is a known issue with this stove and failed seals! Colby
 
I'm currently looking to add forced-air heat in our new (to us) RF 246. The original 2 burner propane stove works but shows age. We value simplicity and reliability over features, and will readily pay for demonstrated quality. Where I'm at so far:

-Having read numerous frustrated Wallas heater/stove threads on this site over the years, including offers of stoves being removed and given away, this will NOT be our choice. Demonstrated unreliability is a non-starter for me, and I'm not willing to gamble >$4,000 that this leopard has "changed its spots".

The Chinese knock-offs, while tempting, also have a poor track record for reliability. The suggestion to "buy 2 for when the first one breaks" doesn't resonate with me. The admiral wants heat, not another boat project to be done at night in the cold.

-For effective heating (and hot water if desired), the Webasto and Espar diesel units are universally praised. Price for heater and install parts will approach $3,000, not including labor. A bit harder to source and install. Sure marine in Seattle has a stellar reputation for Webasto, so still a consideration.

-The Wallas 22gb and 30gb (forced-air heat only) are among the most simple and reliable, easiest to install, and sold/serviced here in Seattle. I looked at their (even smaller and less expensive) kerosene-only heater but was steered away by an honest Wallas rep who clearly didn't think much of it.

I'm currently leaning towards the Wallas 30GB, and using the force 10 cooktop as long as it remains safe and serviceable. We also have a newer propane camping stove which would work with proper cross-ventilation.

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful information and perspectives.

Warm regards, Mike
 
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