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Wallace vs. Stock
- Thread starter aquaman
- Start date
Just for the record I paid just over $1500(US) for a Wallas model 85DU from Scan Marine. This is the model with the blower lid. The total with exhaust tube, through-hull, fuel tank and pot holders was just over $1700. It is a snap to install and has given me trouble free operation.
Cheers - Dave
Cheers - Dave
mikeporterinmd
New member
We use propane for the grill. We always keep the propane outside. I would guess
about 1 in 2 propane cylinders (the replacable kind) end up empty due to a
leak after an initial use. I wouldn't want these inside a cabin.
We used to have a butane stove, too. It did work well, and those cans did
not leak. However, they cost a good deal more than the quoted price in this
thread. I wouldn't think they would work well for heating except to take the
chill off in the morning. Not really safe to sleep with. Are the cheaper
ones more prone to leaking?
Anyhow, I would only use a butane stove for actual cooking. That way,
my attention would stay focused on it, and I would remember to remove the
butane and store it out of the cabin when finished.
You can get a single burner portable butane stove for about $60 - maybe less.
If you have shore power, an electric heater is a viable option.
I've been using the Wallace a lot right in the driveway while I'm working on the boat.
Works well.
$2300 is a lot of money. If you are comfortable cutting a hole in the boat for the
exhaust, and cutting the counter top for the stove and the front for the vent, you
could save a few hundred. Also, you need to run the wires, so a bit of electrical
work is needed.
This would be a hard decision if I were buying a new boat. It's a great thing
to get on a used boat. A Wallace would be a major factor in deciding between
nearly equal used boats.
Mike
about 1 in 2 propane cylinders (the replacable kind) end up empty due to a
leak after an initial use. I wouldn't want these inside a cabin.
We used to have a butane stove, too. It did work well, and those cans did
not leak. However, they cost a good deal more than the quoted price in this
thread. I wouldn't think they would work well for heating except to take the
chill off in the morning. Not really safe to sleep with. Are the cheaper
ones more prone to leaking?
Anyhow, I would only use a butane stove for actual cooking. That way,
my attention would stay focused on it, and I would remember to remove the
butane and store it out of the cabin when finished.
You can get a single burner portable butane stove for about $60 - maybe less.
If you have shore power, an electric heater is a viable option.
I've been using the Wallace a lot right in the driveway while I'm working on the boat.
Works well.
$2300 is a lot of money. If you are comfortable cutting a hole in the boat for the
exhaust, and cutting the counter top for the stove and the front for the vent, you
could save a few hundred. Also, you need to run the wires, so a bit of electrical
work is needed.
This would be a hard decision if I were buying a new boat. It's a great thing
to get on a used boat. A Wallace would be a major factor in deciding between
nearly equal used boats.
Mike
Cutty Sark
New member
The price of a wallas is really a drop in the bucket when you're talking about a boat like a CDory anyway. And I find it is such a fantastic feature. My fishing buddies always seem to make a comment when we are winter blackmouth fishing about how nice it is to have heat. And my wife, probably would stay home alot without it. I'd bet 80% or more of the Brats on here have a wallas, and there is good reason. Safety is a major issue, fire in a boat is a bad thing, no open flame and the fact it vents outside are two major plus's on a small boat. I can leave it running and not worry about my kids burning themselves on it or knocking it over. And the fact that fuel is easy to come by, chances are not matter where you are you can find some deisel around. I also wouldn't even consider a Cdory without one. But it's cold here in the Northwest.
Sark
Sark
mikeporterinmd
New member
Sea Wolf":1tzlvcaa said:Mike-
Or, if you're a natural born bargan hunter like me, you can buy both stoves and all the detectors and other parts on ebay and install all of them for under $500.
I guess I'll just have to change my motto / signature:
PROUD TO BE-
**CHEAP!!!**
Ha! Joe. :roll:
I like your system. If I bought a boat that did not already have a Wallace on it,
I would consider it. Actually, I was looking at such a boat once, and there
happened to be a Wallace on Ebay at that moment fairly cheap. But, then I blinked,
and the inexpensive Wallace-less boat disappeared in a quick sale, and
so Shelly IV came to be.
Mike
When boat shopping, I passed on not even looking at a few nice used boats because they didn't have the wallas. My mistake. Well, now that I have used one?
For $2300 I would take what ever stock stove was available. The new owner pays for it! (prefer the origo alcohol) buy a Honda 2000 geny (power the whole boat), a ceramic heater, portable with a real thermostat! (heat at your feet or v-birth or in the cockpit under the camperback would be great, wonderful, fantastic), a two burner hot plate (cook away) Oh, and for those hot, humid days get a nice air-conditioner if you want. And still have some change left over to to burn.
I don't own a honda yet but: There is no question as of what type of fuel to burn. It will probably never leave you stranded. It's fuel consumption is probably on par with the wallas while it runs heater, circulating fan if needed and intertainment system. If it does need worked on there is more than one place in the USA that can repair it without boxing it up and shipping.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 49&posts=2
Here is a link on a honda generator deal.
For $2300 I would take what ever stock stove was available. The new owner pays for it! (prefer the origo alcohol) buy a Honda 2000 geny (power the whole boat), a ceramic heater, portable with a real thermostat! (heat at your feet or v-birth or in the cockpit under the camperback would be great, wonderful, fantastic), a two burner hot plate (cook away) Oh, and for those hot, humid days get a nice air-conditioner if you want. And still have some change left over to to burn.
I don't own a honda yet but: There is no question as of what type of fuel to burn. It will probably never leave you stranded. It's fuel consumption is probably on par with the wallas while it runs heater, circulating fan if needed and intertainment system. If it does need worked on there is more than one place in the USA that can repair it without boxing it up and shipping.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 49&posts=2
Here is a link on a honda generator deal.
flapbreaker
New member
Initially I was choked up at the "high" cost of the wallas however, I must agree with some other brats that it's probably the best feature of the boat. It's the only heater that I would use while sleeping. Another thing that has not been mentioned is the heat from the stove is a dry heat. I don't find that the cabin gets stuffy warm like open flame heat source can sometimes cause. Love my wallas. :love
P.S. I burn Klean heat instead of deisel with no problems.
P.S. I burn Klean heat instead of deisel with no problems.
BobArrington
New member
Yes Joe, the picture is the new stock stove, but it is not propane it is butane. The advantage of butane is that it produces much higher BTU then propane, is cheaper to buy and comes in smaller containers.
Everyone is missing an important rule which is; anytime you ask one divice to do multiple things it usually dosen't do either as well as a dedicated design will. If you're going to combine devices for one purpose - first understand your primary need and choose that which works best for your need and accept the trade off on the other side. If you don't like the trade off then choose a heater that heats the best and a stove that cooks the best.
If we all don't know that safety has to be remembered with all of these devices then let "Darwins Law" prevail.
May we all boat warm, safe and well fed.
Everyone is missing an important rule which is; anytime you ask one divice to do multiple things it usually dosen't do either as well as a dedicated design will. If you're going to combine devices for one purpose - first understand your primary need and choose that which works best for your need and accept the trade off on the other side. If you don't like the trade off then choose a heater that heats the best and a stove that cooks the best.
If we all don't know that safety has to be remembered with all of these devices then let "Darwins Law" prevail.
May we all boat warm, safe and well fed.
Bob-
We went through the butane/propane discussion once before, and my chemistry/physics teacher background has to respectfully disagree with you about the comparative btu output.
Here's an excerpt from an Airstream RV discussion forum which I'll LINK here.
"If your Gas Connection to the regulator fits a standard LPG Liquefied Petroleum Gas) bottle then don't worry about it.
Actually, the BTU values per pound are very close. Propane delivers about 21,600 BTUs per pound, and Butane will put out about 21,300 BTUs. Not enough of a difference to argue in real life.
In the case of standard commercial cylinder (LPG) gas, what you often get is a "mixture" of Propane and Butane varied by area and season (and now, unfortunately, by availability). At atmospheric pressure Butane has a freezing point of 0ºc while Propane has a freezing point of -42ºc. When liquified gas approaches its freezing point, it ceases to vaporize effectively and the gas available to the Airstream is dramatically reduced.
If you have a heavy draw on the regulator (total gas demand maximized) in cold temperatures (winter) as the vapor is drawn off, it causes the remaining liquid in the tank to become colder, and, as the temperature falls, butane becomes less and less effective. Butane remains a liquid, which means it will not give off any gas vapor at 31 degrees F at atmospheric pressure, while Propane continues to perform at a higher level at the same temperature - it liquifies totally (stops gassifying) at -48 degrees F at atmospheric pressure.
Now, to quote one of my professors from the Missouri School of Mines and Metalurgy, "It is intuitively obvious that as evaporation cooling affects the temperature of the cylinder, Propane will maintain a more stable flow than Butane, all other factors being constant".
What the above means is that, under most cases, economics aside, Propane is a better fuel than Butane.
Holy Crap!!! been carrying around the books with those numbers in them since the dark ages in college (pre-computer) - and this is one of the first times I have been able to use those bits of information."
__________________
Dennis
"Suck it up, spend the bucks, do it right the first time."
*************************************************************************
Joe.
We went through the butane/propane discussion once before, and my chemistry/physics teacher background has to respectfully disagree with you about the comparative btu output.
Here's an excerpt from an Airstream RV discussion forum which I'll LINK here.
"If your Gas Connection to the regulator fits a standard LPG Liquefied Petroleum Gas) bottle then don't worry about it.
Actually, the BTU values per pound are very close. Propane delivers about 21,600 BTUs per pound, and Butane will put out about 21,300 BTUs. Not enough of a difference to argue in real life.
In the case of standard commercial cylinder (LPG) gas, what you often get is a "mixture" of Propane and Butane varied by area and season (and now, unfortunately, by availability). At atmospheric pressure Butane has a freezing point of 0ºc while Propane has a freezing point of -42ºc. When liquified gas approaches its freezing point, it ceases to vaporize effectively and the gas available to the Airstream is dramatically reduced.
If you have a heavy draw on the regulator (total gas demand maximized) in cold temperatures (winter) as the vapor is drawn off, it causes the remaining liquid in the tank to become colder, and, as the temperature falls, butane becomes less and less effective. Butane remains a liquid, which means it will not give off any gas vapor at 31 degrees F at atmospheric pressure, while Propane continues to perform at a higher level at the same temperature - it liquifies totally (stops gassifying) at -48 degrees F at atmospheric pressure.
Now, to quote one of my professors from the Missouri School of Mines and Metalurgy, "It is intuitively obvious that as evaporation cooling affects the temperature of the cylinder, Propane will maintain a more stable flow than Butane, all other factors being constant".
What the above means is that, under most cases, economics aside, Propane is a better fuel than Butane.
Holy Crap!!! been carrying around the books with those numbers in them since the dark ages in college (pre-computer) - and this is one of the first times I have been able to use those bits of information."
__________________
Dennis
"Suck it up, spend the bucks, do it right the first time."
*************************************************************************
Joe.
Actually the Wallas (note spelling) is a unit which does quite well at both being a stove and heating in a safe manor. The open flame kerosene heaters should never be used in a boat--peroid, and I hope that no-one is advocating their use. The catalytic heaters, like Mr Heat are not made to be used in a boat and are not safe.
Propane and butane cartridges have had failed seals. I have personally seen the results (bad burns) of two such failures. One was almost fatal (the burn unit bill was very close to a million dollars). I have seen cases of carbon monoxide poisoning by open flame type of heaters or stoves. Some say "Darwin rules"--unfortunately some do not have the facts and do not realize that Carbon monoxide poisoning is very insidious and the only accurate way of measuring Carbon monoxide is either with blood levels of carbon monoxide (carboxyhemoglobin) or by a carbon monoxide detector which measures in low incriments: such as CO experts (unfortunately the warehouse was recently destroyed in ice storms)--or The TTI pocket CO detector (both of these have digital read outs at very low levels). The next best and less expensive is the Kiddie NightHawk with a digital read out. Unfortunately the units which are hard wired in most boats and RVs are not very sensative and are not really adequate. The Safe-T-Alert is commonly installed (I do not know what is being used in the C Dories, since my TC 255 didn't come with one.)
The carbon monoxide detectors should be replaced every 2 to 3 years. There are kits which will check to see if a detector is still effective. If you don't know if yours works, replace it!
The stove top LP units which use an external tank vented overboard have a shut off valve at the tank which should be turned off when the stove or heater is not being used--the cartridge units have a valve inside of the boat and are subject to potential leakage.
As for butane being cheaper or hotter that just does not fly. The cost of a Wallas stove is about 1.5% of the cost of a rigged Tom Cat 255. For us that was a no brainer to have a safe and effective stove/heater, which was two burner, took up no extra space and used inexpensive fuel. But each of us makes our own decisions based on our own priorities. Safety is very high on my list!
Propane and butane cartridges have had failed seals. I have personally seen the results (bad burns) of two such failures. One was almost fatal (the burn unit bill was very close to a million dollars). I have seen cases of carbon monoxide poisoning by open flame type of heaters or stoves. Some say "Darwin rules"--unfortunately some do not have the facts and do not realize that Carbon monoxide poisoning is very insidious and the only accurate way of measuring Carbon monoxide is either with blood levels of carbon monoxide (carboxyhemoglobin) or by a carbon monoxide detector which measures in low incriments: such as CO experts (unfortunately the warehouse was recently destroyed in ice storms)--or The TTI pocket CO detector (both of these have digital read outs at very low levels). The next best and less expensive is the Kiddie NightHawk with a digital read out. Unfortunately the units which are hard wired in most boats and RVs are not very sensative and are not really adequate. The Safe-T-Alert is commonly installed (I do not know what is being used in the C Dories, since my TC 255 didn't come with one.)
The carbon monoxide detectors should be replaced every 2 to 3 years. There are kits which will check to see if a detector is still effective. If you don't know if yours works, replace it!
The stove top LP units which use an external tank vented overboard have a shut off valve at the tank which should be turned off when the stove or heater is not being used--the cartridge units have a valve inside of the boat and are subject to potential leakage.
As for butane being cheaper or hotter that just does not fly. The cost of a Wallas stove is about 1.5% of the cost of a rigged Tom Cat 255. For us that was a no brainer to have a safe and effective stove/heater, which was two burner, took up no extra space and used inexpensive fuel. But each of us makes our own decisions based on our own priorities. Safety is very high on my list!
squidslayer
New member
Use $1000 to buy a honda 2000w Generator..$100 to buy a electic heater..SAVE $1200 ...to buy other toys..and watch TV and run a microwave too!!!...Case Closed!!!
Hi Folks,
In my quest of the KISS principle, I have a non pressure Alcohol Stove for cooking and heating in the morning. Usually, heating up water for coffee and washing heats the cabin enough to take the chill off. I always keep a window cracked, and I have a monoxide alarm.
For cabin heating when it gets really cold, I think I will use the propane BUDDY HEATER used by Dun from CT. It is safe to use, and easy to use. The Wallas scares me in that heaters like that, in the past, have had a history of problems. Just the maintenance of the Wallas is a reason not to use it. If it comes with a boat, I will keep it. To go out and buy it new, no way.
When I am sleeping, I will not run any heaters except for an electric heater if I am attached to the shore, and there is electricity available.
With the lack of storage in my boat, a generator is not in my plans.
Just one man's idea.
Fred
In my quest of the KISS principle, I have a non pressure Alcohol Stove for cooking and heating in the morning. Usually, heating up water for coffee and washing heats the cabin enough to take the chill off. I always keep a window cracked, and I have a monoxide alarm.
For cabin heating when it gets really cold, I think I will use the propane BUDDY HEATER used by Dun from CT. It is safe to use, and easy to use. The Wallas scares me in that heaters like that, in the past, have had a history of problems. Just the maintenance of the Wallas is a reason not to use it. If it comes with a boat, I will keep it. To go out and buy it new, no way.
When I am sleeping, I will not run any heaters except for an electric heater if I am attached to the shore, and there is electricity available.
With the lack of storage in my boat, a generator is not in my plans.
Just one man's idea.
Fred
Fred, exactly how I operate, the alcohol stove takes the chill off in the morning (always window(s) cracked). I installed the Wallas 1300 Heater (about $1,000), one switch, so far has worked flawlessly, zero maintenance as long as you make sure fresh fuel. Got to head to work.
We have a portable butane single burner. It works very well, easy to start, low cost to run, and heats very fast. It will also simmer some of the propane stoves we have used cannot be slowed down.
The new single burner stove the factory is using looks very nice, and you do not have to get it out of the locker-just open the lid and get heat.
This is a real improvement over achohal stoves. We also carry a butane BBQ grill we use this quite a bit when cruising.
The new single burner stove the factory is using looks very nice, and you do not have to get it out of the locker-just open the lid and get heat.
This is a real improvement over achohal stoves. We also carry a butane BBQ grill we use this quite a bit when cruising.