VHF Radio
- Thread starter Westie
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colbysmith
Active member
I'm happy with my GX2150 by Standard Horizon. DSC and AIS receiver. Price seemed reasonable also, although I can't remember what I paid for it. Colby
journey on
New member
I've owned Standard Horizon VHF radios for a number of years. Good radios, cheap for what you want: basic to fancy. Never had a problem.
Here is my list of features to consider. Some has to do with price, other with radio performance.
--DSC, emergency calling. I believe it's a requirement on all fixed radios, optional on handheld. Needs GPS to be fully operational.
-- Sensitivity. Measure of how good the receiver is. The cheaper to most expensive seem to have the same sensitivity: 0.25 microV at 12dB SINAD for the cheaper and 0.30 microV for the most expensive. Cheaper is better, must be using the latest receiver chip.
--Built in GPS. DSC needs GPS, easier to get a radio with a built in GPS.
--Built in AIS. Shows position, etc of nearby ships. I think it's better left to the chart plotter where you can see what's going on. Has NMEA output.
--NMEA 0183 output. 2 outputs, separate lines . GPS at 4800 baud, AIS at 38400 baud if those are in the radio.
--Remote microphone/speaker. Needed if you spend a lot of time in the cockpit whilest trolling, etc.
--Hailer. Option. Expensive.
--Bells and whistles. Plot route, now that there's a GPS. Etc.
--Antenna. Need a sturdy antenna, not the cheapest. 8' antennas give 6 dB. 3' antennas give 3 dB. Get a 8', you're not a sailboat.
--Connection. Use good coax and connecters. Bob/thataway will show you how to connect. Remember both the antenna and connection will determine if you have a good radio, or not.
Boris
Here is my list of features to consider. Some has to do with price, other with radio performance.
--DSC, emergency calling. I believe it's a requirement on all fixed radios, optional on handheld. Needs GPS to be fully operational.
-- Sensitivity. Measure of how good the receiver is. The cheaper to most expensive seem to have the same sensitivity: 0.25 microV at 12dB SINAD for the cheaper and 0.30 microV for the most expensive. Cheaper is better, must be using the latest receiver chip.
--Built in GPS. DSC needs GPS, easier to get a radio with a built in GPS.
--Built in AIS. Shows position, etc of nearby ships. I think it's better left to the chart plotter where you can see what's going on. Has NMEA output.
--NMEA 0183 output. 2 outputs, separate lines . GPS at 4800 baud, AIS at 38400 baud if those are in the radio.
--Remote microphone/speaker. Needed if you spend a lot of time in the cockpit whilest trolling, etc.
--Hailer. Option. Expensive.
--Bells and whistles. Plot route, now that there's a GPS. Etc.
--Antenna. Need a sturdy antenna, not the cheapest. 8' antennas give 6 dB. 3' antennas give 3 dB. Get a 8', you're not a sailboat.
--Connection. Use good coax and connecters. Bob/thataway will show you how to connect. Remember both the antenna and connection will determine if you have a good radio, or not.
Boris
And to second what Boris said, look at the Standard Horizon The Matrix AIS/GPS (GX2200). With the GPS built in, no confusion about wiring, back up GPS receiver, and AIS receiver. If you only boat on lakes, and where there is no commercial marine traffic (but it is surprising how many pleasure vessels now have AIS B. Great safety feature. The Loud Hailer,--gives the automatic fog horn--that is my primary use for the loud hailer.
It does look like the AIS is an option, and it would cost about $170 as you said. I had just assumed that they all came with the AIS.
The below are vessels required to have AIS, and there are a large number of coastal vessels (including yachts) which now have the less expensive AIS B transceivers.
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Considering the amount of fog, and marine traffic in your area, I would especially want the AIS. One of the advantages of AIS, is that it shows you the vessel's speed, direction, size, rudder angle (turning or not) Yes, you can get much of this from MARPA radar, but this adds another layer of safety. Bang for the buck, I think it is a lot.
You can get an AIS compatible radio for less, but then you have to do the wiring from the GPS to the radio, and visa versa.
I have the recover. If I was boating out of Bodega, I would have class B transceiver.
The below are vessels required to have AIS, and there are a large number of coastal vessels (including yachts) which now have the less expensive AIS B transceivers.
[/img]Considering the amount of fog, and marine traffic in your area, I would especially want the AIS. One of the advantages of AIS, is that it shows you the vessel's speed, direction, size, rudder angle (turning or not) Yes, you can get much of this from MARPA radar, but this adds another layer of safety. Bang for the buck, I think it is a lot.
You can get an AIS compatible radio for less, but then you have to do the wiring from the GPS to the radio, and visa versa.
I have the recover. If I was boating out of Bodega, I would have class B transceiver.
I would say no recreational boater "needs" AIS (at least not yet, as it is not a requirement). So it's just a matter of whether you want it, or feel like you as an individual need it (well okay, then I guess that would qualify as need!).
First of all, if you are on a small/inland lake, I cant really see any need.
If you are on the ocean/bay/Great Lakes, etc...... are you in an area with any commercial traffic ever? Shipping, ferries, etc.? If not, then probably no strong need; if so, then you might want to consider it.
If the latter, then people who have used it much more than I have should be your guide
I've actually only used AIS extremely minimally (which I guess goes to show you don't need it, but then too, it was not available when I was out cruising so that's not much of a reason). AIS will let you see names, and I think paths (?) of commercial traffic. I think the name part alone would be very handy for contacting ships when you want to (I would really have liked/used that feature). How much nicer to call "Western Pineapple" rather than "ship at around xx.xxx position." But then that's only if you boat in places where you would see/contact commercial traffic.
Will be interested to see what others have to say. I am looking into a second VHF (I just have a very basic Eclipse+ now, although it works fine) and have the Icom M506 at the top of my list. (AIS with NMEA 2000 connectivity.)
I'm not sure how much I need it, but I think I may want it
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/ ... fault.aspx
First of all, if you are on a small/inland lake, I cant really see any need.
If you are on the ocean/bay/Great Lakes, etc...... are you in an area with any commercial traffic ever? Shipping, ferries, etc.? If not, then probably no strong need; if so, then you might want to consider it.
If the latter, then people who have used it much more than I have should be your guide
I've actually only used AIS extremely minimally (which I guess goes to show you don't need it, but then too, it was not available when I was out cruising so that's not much of a reason). AIS will let you see names, and I think paths (?) of commercial traffic. I think the name part alone would be very handy for contacting ships when you want to (I would really have liked/used that feature). How much nicer to call "Western Pineapple" rather than "ship at around xx.xxx position." But then that's only if you boat in places where you would see/contact commercial traffic.Will be interested to see what others have to say. I am looking into a second VHF (I just have a very basic Eclipse+ now, although it works fine) and have the Icom M506 at the top of my list. (AIS with NMEA 2000 connectivity.)
I'm not sure how much I need it, but I think I may want it
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/ ... fault.aspx
colbysmith
Active member
My 2150 came with AIS. Radio wasn't that expensive, and also came with hookups for a loud hailer....where you can run fog horn patterns, etc. I bought the hailer as well as I do run in the fog once in a great while on the Great Lakes. The AIS was nice to have when we were at the San Juans last year. It works on the Great Lakes and Mississippi River as well. But I've never seen anything pop up on it on the local lakes. I'm not sure, but I believe my radio may have GPS as well. In any case, it was pretty easy to hook up to my Garmin GPSMAP unit. I bought my radio on Amazon, and pretty sure I didn't spend more than $150 for it. It does everything I need and more. As far as AIS goes, I'd say if you are doing a lot of boating in shipping lanes or areas of high commercial traffic, it's nice to have. If not, then don't bother with it. Colby P.s. In all honesty the AIS was more of a nuisance while we were in the San Juans, until I shut off the alarm mode. The Radar was much more useful. Sunbeam is right about seeing ship names and direction. I've never been in fog using AIS, so maybe it would be more useful then. In the end, AIS is just another tool one can use, but how many tools do you need? 
Get a VHF radio that works well, with DSC (required now), tie it in properly with your GPS if the radio doesn't have it internally, and al is good! That was primarily what I was looking for when I bought my radio, and it just happened to come with AIS and the other stuff.
Get a VHF radio that works well, with DSC (required now), tie it in properly with your GPS if the radio doesn't have it internally, and al is good! That was primarily what I was looking for when I bought my radio, and it just happened to come with AIS and the other stuff.journey on
New member
Sunbeam, I'm not sure where Out'n'about, Other is so I can't comment on your boating area. Here in SoCal, where we do a lot of boating, AIS is certainly an asset.
We'll be crossing the Santa Barbara Channel, from Oxnard to Santa Cruz Isle next month and those 20 knot container ships/tankers/anything else throw a bow wake taller than any sailboat mast I've owned and I don't want to get close. And that's without Judy's input; she doesn't want to get even near. With AIS on a plotter (not a radio display), we can see how to avoid those vessels. We're going to Catalina this week and we'll be crossing the San Pedro Harbour entrance, where all those container ships are headed for/from. AIS removes some pucker power there, also.
Now, is AIS necessary? We've boated for a number of years without chart plotters, GPS and now AIS and we're still alive. So, no, only paper charts and a compass are really needed. But with each navigational aid added, both the comfort zone and safety are increased.
Your boating area may not require anything beyond the basics and only you can be the judge of that.
Boris
We'll be crossing the Santa Barbara Channel, from Oxnard to Santa Cruz Isle next month and those 20 knot container ships/tankers/anything else throw a bow wake taller than any sailboat mast I've owned and I don't want to get close. And that's without Judy's input; she doesn't want to get even near. With AIS on a plotter (not a radio display), we can see how to avoid those vessels. We're going to Catalina this week and we'll be crossing the San Pedro Harbour entrance, where all those container ships are headed for/from. AIS removes some pucker power there, also.
Now, is AIS necessary? We've boated for a number of years without chart plotters, GPS and now AIS and we're still alive. So, no, only paper charts and a compass are really needed. But with each navigational aid added, both the comfort zone and safety are increased.
Your boating area may not require anything beyond the basics and only you can be the judge of that.
Boris
journey on":3n7u2n0j said:
I don't really have "a boating area" these days. Trailer the C-Dory to various places (hence: out and about).
In the past I have boated on the open ocean, near-shore shipping lanes, small lakes, rivers, Inside Passage, etc. Each one is different (which is part of the fun). I agree that in SoCal/ocean, AIS would be useful. Last time I crossed those shipping lanes, it was call VTS and take their advice (when X passes pull right out and cross their stern and by the way, Y will be right on their heels, at 20 knots...), plus factor in data from the radar and the Mark I eyeball. AIS would have been nice! Nothing like that moment where you look to port and see both the red and green of "Y," just in case you thought about lollygagging.
In other places it would be pointless (small inland lakes, etc.). And even in the areas where it is useful, it's an optional tool, as Colby mentions, IMO.
Several friends have been killed or injured by being run down by a large vessel. That alone is enough for me to get AIS as soon as it was practical.
I have had a lot of tense moments all over the world, even with good radar images. For example a submarine in the Straits of Juan De Fuca--OK got a target--but how fast is it moving? A number of times in fishing fleets with trawls out. Moving slowly, but without really good MARPA it is very difficult and time consuming (time away form lookout in pea soup fog) to plot and avoid those vessels, which have the right of way.
How about the tug towing a barge a mile back? Easy to miss. AIS gives the answer. (Plus you can hail by name, and direction). I used to have to calculate the Lat and Long (from radar) of the other vessel, and say "vessel XXX . XXX this is " etc. "What is your intention?"
I would say that anyone who says AIS may not be useful, has not spent much time boating in fog, with minimal nav aids.
Today Radar is so relititively cheap, that I recommend that if you are going to be in any area where there might be fog, or you run at night you have Radar--AIS is even cheaper. What is your life worth? (OK there has to be a cut off--but AIS is a great safety feature)
I have had a lot of tense moments all over the world, even with good radar images. For example a submarine in the Straits of Juan De Fuca--OK got a target--but how fast is it moving? A number of times in fishing fleets with trawls out. Moving slowly, but without really good MARPA it is very difficult and time consuming (time away form lookout in pea soup fog) to plot and avoid those vessels, which have the right of way.
How about the tug towing a barge a mile back? Easy to miss. AIS gives the answer. (Plus you can hail by name, and direction). I used to have to calculate the Lat and Long (from radar) of the other vessel, and say "vessel XXX . XXX this is " etc. "What is your intention?"
I would say that anyone who says AIS may not be useful, has not spent much time boating in fog, with minimal nav aids.
Today Radar is so relititively cheap, that I recommend that if you are going to be in any area where there might be fog, or you run at night you have Radar--AIS is even cheaper. What is your life worth? (OK there has to be a cut off--but AIS is a great safety feature)
journey on
New member
Sunbeam, being out and about is one of the wonderful things about a C-Dory. Both the trailer and the boat's capability allow one to visit different cruising grounds and Judy and I have taken advantage of that. But we reside in SoCal and are willing to deal with those problems such as too many boats, people and cars in addition to fog and big, big boats.
I love navigation, the art (certainly not a science yet,) of getting from point A to point B. Safely. And coupled with the out and about aspect one uses different techniques.
Since you're familiar with the San Pedro/Long Beach VTS, I assume you're familiar with its VTS’ Area of Responsibility (AOR), which includes all waters outside the federal breakwaters -- San Pedro Bay, Santa Monica Bay, Newport Bay and Santa Catalina Island — extending 25 nautical miles from Point Fermin. It's being extended to San Diego and Port Hueneme. So the Santa Barbara Channel isn't monitored, nor the water to San Diego.
Anyway the navigation problem from Oxnard to Santa Cruz Isle isn't just identifying the cargo ships and their velocity, but includes avoiding them. In fact, for me, that's the main point. Heck, on a good day, you can see Santa Cruz Isle, just set a compass course and head over, keeping an eye out for ships. A lot of people do. and I did 40 years ago. Now the radar, a navigation aid which Journey On has, tells me where a ship or ships are before I can see them. However, what I want to know is how avoid them. Up until now, Judy takes over directing the boats course and we safely go behind, far enough to avoid the wake. Needless to say, we err on the side of caution, but it's a perfectly workable solution.
To improve this avoidance scheme we have 3 choices. First, eyeball our way past and relax when we see both sides of the vessel. Judy has vetoed this approach. Second, we can use MARPA. Not a clue what the acronym stands for, you may know, but the radar, coupled with the GPS, an expensive flux gate and a MFD will show you if your paths cross. A perfectly good idea.
The approach I use is a laptop PC, Open Cpn, a GPS and an AIS receiver. OpenCpn will tell you, not only where and when your boat and the vessel paths intersect but if you're in danger. One then takes the required action to avoid any discomfort. Reduces marital stress at minimal costs. We have a PC, as most boaters do, OpenCpn is free, the GPS is $35 and the AIS receiver is $200. I would hope this approach sways you in favor of AIS as a working tool. And I'm thrilled to see that Bob agrees with me.
And finally, the 2 greatest aids to navigation, other than an good navigator, are radar and GPS. One allows you to see through fog and night, both common in SoCal. The other tells you where you are in darkness, fog, clear, unfamiliar territory, any where, plus your velocity and heading if you're moving. Both have reduce collision and saved lives except when stupidity interfered.
And you're right in assuming that I am ducking the work I really have to do, such as painting the back of Journey On with anti-fouling
Boris
I love navigation, the art (certainly not a science yet,) of getting from point A to point B. Safely. And coupled with the out and about aspect one uses different techniques.
Since you're familiar with the San Pedro/Long Beach VTS, I assume you're familiar with its VTS’ Area of Responsibility (AOR), which includes all waters outside the federal breakwaters -- San Pedro Bay, Santa Monica Bay, Newport Bay and Santa Catalina Island — extending 25 nautical miles from Point Fermin. It's being extended to San Diego and Port Hueneme. So the Santa Barbara Channel isn't monitored, nor the water to San Diego.
Anyway the navigation problem from Oxnard to Santa Cruz Isle isn't just identifying the cargo ships and their velocity, but includes avoiding them. In fact, for me, that's the main point. Heck, on a good day, you can see Santa Cruz Isle, just set a compass course and head over, keeping an eye out for ships. A lot of people do. and I did 40 years ago. Now the radar, a navigation aid which Journey On has, tells me where a ship or ships are before I can see them. However, what I want to know is how avoid them. Up until now, Judy takes over directing the boats course and we safely go behind, far enough to avoid the wake. Needless to say, we err on the side of caution, but it's a perfectly workable solution.
To improve this avoidance scheme we have 3 choices. First, eyeball our way past and relax when we see both sides of the vessel. Judy has vetoed this approach. Second, we can use MARPA. Not a clue what the acronym stands for, you may know, but the radar, coupled with the GPS, an expensive flux gate and a MFD will show you if your paths cross. A perfectly good idea.
The approach I use is a laptop PC, Open Cpn, a GPS and an AIS receiver. OpenCpn will tell you, not only where and when your boat and the vessel paths intersect but if you're in danger. One then takes the required action to avoid any discomfort. Reduces marital stress at minimal costs. We have a PC, as most boaters do, OpenCpn is free, the GPS is $35 and the AIS receiver is $200. I would hope this approach sways you in favor of AIS as a working tool. And I'm thrilled to see that Bob agrees with me.
And finally, the 2 greatest aids to navigation, other than an good navigator, are radar and GPS. One allows you to see through fog and night, both common in SoCal. The other tells you where you are in darkness, fog, clear, unfamiliar territory, any where, plus your velocity and heading if you're moving. Both have reduce collision and saved lives except when stupidity interfered.
And you're right in assuming that I am ducking the work I really have to do, such as painting the back of Journey On with anti-fouling
Boris
thataway":1anolsbh said:
Colby if you got a SH 2150 for $150 it was an exceptional deal. There are a few of them still available at $375, even though they have been superseded. I don't believe that any of them had GPS. That is why the new 2200 is such a good deal. at $309 from several venders.
It sounds like I could have written better. What I wanted to say is not that anyone should "avoid" getting AIS if they want it -- especially if they boat in places with the type of commercial traffic that uses AIS. It can clearly be very useful there.
That said, some folks only boat on inland lakes, or other areas where there is either no commercial traffic, or where that traffic is not likely to be using AIS (small tour boat on an inland lake, etc.).
I can see where the OP is located, but don't know where the boat is used and didn't want to assume at any rate, since the boat is of the trailerable type.
That said, some folks only boat on inland lakes, or other areas where there is either no commercial traffic, or where that traffic is not likely to be using AIS (small tour boat on an inland lake, etc.).
I can see where the OP is located, but don't know where the boat is used and didn't want to assume at any rate, since the boat is of the trailerable type.
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, and others, I stand corrected. I decided to look up what I paid for my 2150. I must have been feeling generous that day, as I dished out $290 for the radio at the GPSStore. :roll: And according to the operating manual, it does NOT have an internal GPS. No problem when properly connected to an external GPS source. In any case, a nice radio that works for me. Colby
Good choice. You'll like it. I have an older 2150 and a new 2200 both mounted on my boat and wired to separate Lowrance chartplotters. I boat/fish a lot in the fog in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. While AIS is not a "necessity", like radar, it's something that once you have it, you won't want to be without it. I like it so much and use it so often that this past winter I installed the backup unit. Seeing the AIS target with the radar overlay on top of it is priceless IMHO.
I picked up a Lowrance Link-8 when deciding on an AIS VHF for the Nordic. Haven't used it a bunch yet, but it seems every bit as capable as the older AIS Standard Horizon Matrix it replaced. I had to replace my older SH Matrix (GX2100), as it could not handle AIS and DSC over the same NMEA connection - they required different baud rates. The VHF itself had two NMEA ports, but many newer MFD's (including my Simrad) only have a single NMEA port. The newer SH Matrix models (GX2150+) can send/receive AIS/DSC over a single NMEA port using a single baud rate.
Anyway, the other option if you have a more modern system is using N2K - which the Simrad RS35 and Link-8 have. It literally was, plug and play. No messing with baud rates, insufficient NMEA ports, etc. Also, the Link-8 was cheaper than any of the SH AIS Matrix units.
Here's Panbo's review on the two - plenty of positive reviews on the Link-8 over at THT as well, where I first read about it.
Anyway, the other option if you have a more modern system is using N2K - which the Simrad RS35 and Link-8 have. It literally was, plug and play. No messing with baud rates, insufficient NMEA ports, etc. Also, the Link-8 was cheaper than any of the SH AIS Matrix units.
Here's Panbo's review on the two - plenty of positive reviews on the Link-8 over at THT as well, where I first read about it.