Used C-Dory 22 or new Boston Whaler 190? Best for 1st boat?

R

RCU

New member
First of all wanted to introduce myself and say it is great to be part of this forum. I just joined and am enjoying reading and learning about these awesome boats. My name is Robert and live in Dana Point, California. Thinking of my buying my first boat and not sure which direction to go?

Right now, I have a 4 seater Seadoo LRV jet ski and while it has been fun, I think I'm ready to move up and buy my first boat sometime in the next 3-6 months. My main plan for the boat is to do fishing and diving, plus some cruising off Dana Point, go to Catalina and San Clemente islands.

At first, I wanted something completely worry free that I wouldn't have to worry about and was leaning toward getting a new Boston Whaler 190 Montauk for ~ 40k. As I was looking around though, I ran across a couple of C-Dorys and love the look and utility of them, plus the fact that they seem to get decent fuel mileage for the 22's.

The problem though is that my budget would be 30-40k and therefore I would have to buy a used 22 Cruiser or Angler and am worried about getting a used boat that needs constant work and attention. The reason I was leaning toward the 190 is because it would be new, with warranty, and I could just go out and enjoy it.

Based on everyone's experience here, for that price range would I be able to get a reliable C-dory that doesn't need constant work and can use without being worried? I do love the fact that it has the little cabin and would be able to stay out longer but am worried about how much work they would need to keep running reliably.

Another potential idea would be to get an older C-Dory like this one I found in San Diego but again I would have the same worries? From the looks and sound of it, would it be a reliable first boat? http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/4703727504.html Talked with the owner and he said it was solid and ready to go but if I were to get serious, what should I look out for?

Any advice, tips, and previous experiences would be great! Plus to add, expecting my first baby in November and would love to have a little boat to enjoy with my family while they're growing up, just need to do some more research and see what I'm getting into.

Robert
 
There's night and day differences between an open Whaler and a cozy cabin boat like a C-Dory. I don't think there are any rivers or lakes around Dana Point so you're talking about open Ocean boating. Storms come up quickly out there and open boats can swamp.

No contest in my opinion. Go for the C-Dory!
 
A brand new boat can have as many problems as a used boat. One advantage with used is that someone else may have taken care of all the new boat problems.

There are a number of used boats for sale in your price range in the "For Sale by Owner" section of the forum. For example, there is an '06 22 Angler for $35K located in Santa Cruz, CA.

No matter which used C-Dory boat you get there will likely be a initial period where you are adapting it to your particular style of use. After that it'll be launch and go. The on-going required maintenance will be pretty much the same for both the CD and Montauk.

The newer C-Dory's have a different (nicer?) interior and maybe better finish than the one you linked to. The hull and the cabin of both boats is essentially the same.

Other than the enclosed cabin the biggest difference in the two boats is that the Montauk has a fairly decent V-bottom. The C-dory does not. While the performance of the two is about the same (according to the Whaler performance charts the Montauk is faster and gets a bit better mileage), the Montauk will probably give you a better ride at a faster speed than the C-Dory when it is rough. While the C-Dory can handle rough water it will have to be done at a slower speed. However, in the C-Dory you will be inside a nice dry cabin. C-Dories can handle at least 7 foot waves. http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=19986&highlight=

If you are going to be doing mostly fishing and diving an Angler will probably suit you better. You give up cabin interior space for a bigger cockpit. If you want cruise with the family the Cruiser model is probably better for that.

There are a few 22 CC models around. These would be pretty comparable to the Montauk except for the shape of the hull bottom.

Any C-Dory you get from someone selling it on this site will be in very good condition and is very unlikely to give you any problems.

One of the big reasons (IMO) most of us have them is that they are built on the KISS model. There is not really a lot to them and whatever there is, it is right in front of you. These boats are also very easy to customize (check out the galleries).

There is an annual excursion of C-Dories that go to Catalina as a group. http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=21009
 
Welcome aboard, and congratulations on the first child coming up. I spent the majority of my life boating in S. Calif--had picnics on the beach where the Ritz Carlton is now located. Many boating trips where I anchored behind the lee of Dana Point long before there was even a planned harbor there. Catalina is "old California" not a whole of changes there when my great grandfather first went there well before the turn of the 19th century.

I strongly suggest that you start with a used C Dory 22 cruiser. For your budget you can find a fully equipped boat, in good shape. There will be safe room for the new baby--(my children all were aboard boats at Catalina by age 2 months)--they are now in their mid 40's--and my son lives in San Clemente. He used my C Dory 25 out of Dana point for a few years:

Although I have "camped" at Catalina out of an 18 foot boat, it is not really safe or comfortable for a young family…Even in the 22 you need to cross to the Island early in the morning. The 22 will give you many years of safe and fun boating. I hope that tpsurf chimes in--he owned a C Dory 22, which I had owned in Calif--and if you look at his wonderful videos, you will see the joy that a "young" family will have growing up on a boat around Catalina. I grew up on a sailboat a little longer than a C Dory 22, but with far less creature comforts (including sleeping on an air mattress in an open cockpit hundreds of nights). The C Dory may well be the greatest adventure of your life--after the birth of your child and the joy of sharing a life with a wonderful woman.

As for the boat in San Diego--it is the pre 1987 change in the hull. This is a bit of a different boat than the newer cruiser--which I suggest for you. They are good and seaworthy boats. But there is a much different bottom configuration, and transom. The newer cruiser has a true galley and dinette. Two items for an infant and young child--Johnny Jump up, and a net to "wall off" the aft end of the forward V berth which becomes the "play pen" for the child.

When a good boat comes up in your price range, jump on it. It may not be in S. Calif. But it is worth paying shipping if the right boat is not close at hand. I have bought most of the C Dories I have owned over 1000 miles from "home".
 
Thank you so much for all of the replies! I am definitely leaning toward the direction of getting the C-Dory. I just love the idea of being able to go out with it and make a weekend of it on the boat, not just go out for a couple of hours and head back in because I'm tired of being in the sun.

I did watch the videos of the guy on his C-Dory at the channel islands (forget his name) and they looked incredible, part of why I'm tempted to go with the C-Dory.

Still haven't made up my mind but definitely leaning toward it.
 
Also, are there any particular model years to avoid or anything to really look out for? Better to get the newer models after the company was bought out in 2008 or doesn't really matter?
 
Since your expecting your first child soon, I would recomend the C-dory over any open boat like the boston whaler, etc. We had our first kiddo almost 3 years ago and at the time had a 19' fishing boat. After the first summer fishing and exploring with the little one on that open boat, we decided that having an enclosed c-dory was the only way to go. The safety of having your baby inside the cabin is more than a plus, keeping them from getting sunburned or cold. The cockpit of the 22' has also very high gunnel sides, which give some piece of mind.

As long as you get a boat with well maintained 4 stroke outboards, you don't have to worry about having any reliability issues. Our boat is a 2003 with twin 40 hp hondas, and with almost two years and hundreds of hours of service, we've had absolutely no problems at all. We just turn the key and go explore/fish.

The older boat you posted the link to does have an older Evinrude two stroke engine. They can be trouble free, or can have issues like fouled plugs, bad electronic power packs. Those are issues we've had the pleasure of troubleshooting in previous boats. It might be worth paying a little more for a boat with modern engines, because re-powering can cost the asking price of that particular boat, should you need to in the future.

The 22 is not self bailing. the 25' is self bailing. We've had our 22 in some very heavy seas during a gale + 14' swell and have took minimal water into the cockpit. The windshield is another story, but thats what those wipers are for. While pulling pots in really bad conditions, we did take a couple waves over the transom on another occassion. We should not have been out that day and the conditions were bad enough that some lesser boats sank in the area. Our automatic pump kicked on and within a minute or all the water was gone. Its a very sea worthy boat. :thup
 
The 22 is not self bailing. There is a bilge pump with a sump at the very back of the cockpit. In my experience the cockpit stays dry when cruising. The water I get back there comes from rain.

Later models tend to incorporate changes and improvements that the factory noticed owners did to their boats. A couple of these include reversible navigator/dinette seat on the port side of the cabin and flat floor in the cockpit.

Later boats also have most of the cabin made from fiberglass, not Deccagard (or whatever it is called). The FG furnishing are nicer (IMO) and more robust.

Later boats also have the full glass cabin door. I think this gives a more open feel to the cabin (with the door closed) than with the solid door with the window. You can easily see what is going on in the cockpit with the glass door.
 
Hi RCU

Fellow southern californian here in Redondo Beach and thought I would throw in my two cents. As a long time sailor the first C-Dory I saw on a boat ramp in Hawaii had me in love at first sight. The practical and utilitarian nature of the C-Dory much like a Jeep or Volkswagen really appealed to me and the fact that I could tow it anywhere and go anywhere with one was the icing on the cake.

if you are interested this is my C-Dory section on my You Tube Channel to get an idea of the fun I have had in the first year with my boat.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... NKW-bt37nb

There are many fine C-Dory that have come up for sale on this site and in your budget range I would highly recommend the C-Dory over the Boston Whaler.
 
Two different types of boats which while they can share the same purpose they will mostly be used differently. The smaller whalers are primarily day boats and the c dory cruisers can overnight for most any period you can handle. I had 4 whalers over a 40 year span and they are great boats. But I used them primarily for fishing and exploring. Whalers will give you a better ride and are a little easier to fish out of, especially if you fish alone much. All 6 of my kids grew up using the whalers and they would single hand them from when they each turned around 12 or so. I wouldn't be quite as apt to turn one of them loose with a 22 cruiser. The whalers are almost maintenance free. So are c dorys but c dorys do require a little more maintenance than a whaler. If you boat in a somewhat wet and cool climate like the northwest then a c dory will be more comforable, but if you day trip primarily in good weather I would go with a whaler. I do love the self bailing feature on whalers. In the summer when it was really hot I could pull the plug and just leave it out all day. Had cool water around my feet which changed every time I went up on plane or came off plane. And a whaler is one of the toughest boats made. I capsized through inattention off the central oregon coast and stayed with the boat till it entered the surf and was washing up on the beach. Coast guard loaded it up on a flatbed truck and took it to their facility, cleaned out the outboard and it was ready to go again. Had some employees forget to tie my 13' down on the trailer and they dumped it in the middle of a parking lot. It only suffered a couple scratches. Both good boats, both with good features depending on what you are going to use it for.
 
Also, are there any particular model years to avoid or anything to really look out for? Better to get the newer models after the company was bought out in 2008 or doesn't really matter?
Click to expand...

There is no "bad year" of the 22's. For the 25, I would avoid several years. The crew who built the 22 during a transition in the early 2000 era was skilled and from the "old" group.l As you can see from the sig--I owned a 93 boat, and a 2006 boat. Not a lot of difference--upgrade on the cockpit floorboards, different interior, and aft bulkhead materials. Different bilge pumps, and teak vs SS hand rails…I personally prefer the Decaguard interior (plywood with Melamine overlay)--it is easier to modify. But there are a few advantages of the molded interior (no "L" brackets and screws into the floor, probably a bit easier to clean).
Personally we don't want the sliding front seat, my wife prefers the ride in the aft seat, and puts her book on the dinette table. There is better storage under the front seat in the fixed mount seat. There might be some advantages with V berth access.


One other question I had, is the 22 self bailing?
Click to expand...
I have not been in conditions where I felt that there was a threat of getting water in a C dory 22 in the Catalina Channel. In the 18 foot open boat I mentioned, above, One night I was out there in 10 to 15 footers, with 40 knot plus winds--helping look for a dinghy which a friend was towing and had come loose. I did take water over the transom once--and that was my fault, as I was along side the sailboat which had lost the dinghy, communicating, instead of paying attention to the seas. The bilge pump took care of that water in minutes.

There are different placements of the bilge pumps in different year boats. My boat has bilge pumps both all of the way aft,(for water when the boat is on a plane) and under a step in the cabin, which drains any water which accumulates when the boat is level, or going slowly. It is easier to add the aft bilge pump than one forward. I preferred a boat with the removable floor boards, and forward bilge pump. Also I would disagree slightly about the glass door. Some boats have an opening window in the solid aft cabin door. The opening window is an advantage over having to put mosquito net over the entire door frame. (again--options are always available).

Most of our boats are highly customized as we use them. I saw my first C Dory in the very early 80's--and said, "when I get too old to sail, I'll get one of those". This C Dory was based out of Long Beach, and seemed to go to Catalina every weekend of the year (well maybe not every single weekend…)
 
As others have mentioned, very different boats. I've got a 20 foot dual console Whaler and a 22 C-Dory cruiser.

My Whaler has a deeper V than the Montauk you're contemplating so it probably rides better. With the 200hp Yamaha it flies...my recollection is cruise at 4000 RPM at 32 or 33 knots. Wide open around 50 knots. The fuel burn at cruise is around 12 gph with the carbed two stroke. Wide open is 20+ gph.

The C-Dory 22 with an EFI Honda 90 cruises about 16 knots at 4400 rpm burning somewhere around 5-6 gph. I've found the C-Dory isn't all that efficient at this speed (at least with this engine) and often cruise around 12 knots.

The Whaler can't cruise in the 7-18 knot range. The bow shoots up in the air and the stern digs a hole in the water. The ability to cruise at any speed in the C-Dory means it's generally more comfortable, but getting anywhere takes longer. Going slowly is much more pleasant when inside the pilothouse and out of the sun/wind/rain/spray.

I've tried my hardest to break the Whaler. Even cracked the cast aluminum bracket for the 9.9 Yamaha kicker pounding off a wave at high speed. But the boat is pretty bulletproof and it feels more solid than the C-Dory. Fit and finish is better on the Whaler.

That said, the Whaler is 18 years old and has about 500 hours. The C-Dory is 6 years old and has 1200 hours. You can tell which one I like using more...
 
We live in So Cal also and I often wonder why there aren't more C-Dorys here.

That Boston Whaler is a go-fast fishing boat and that's what sells in So Cal. Well built, 150 to 200 hp, cruises at 25 knts, looks good.

The C-Dory, on the other hand doesn't look as sharp or go as fast, but works better for a lot of reasons. First, you can cruise or fish. Take your pick. It may not be as fishing dedicated as the Whaler, but it's darn good. And it has a cabin so you can go to Catalina, or even Santa Cruz for a couple of days and be comfortable. And if you've got 2 kids, where do you use the porti-potti on the Whaler? I've often wondered if real men don't use those things. And you can get out of the sun which I really appreciate.

So you can see what side I'm on. However, there aren't a lot of C-Dorys down here so a lot of people must just do day fishing.

Boris
 
I can speak from the boston whaler side of the equation. For strictly fishing and diving I would recommend the Montauk ( I owned an 18' Outrage- similar boat). For a young family, fishing, diving, and cruising I would recommend a gently used walkaround ( owned a 21' Conquest-self bailing). It has a large enough cockpit, room for a portapotti, plus room for storage and nap time. The downside to the BW walkaround vs. the C Dory from what I can tell is more hp (but faster cruising speed), higher fuel usage, and larger tow vehicle if you intend to tow. That being said at almost fifty and grown kids I'm on the other side of the equation . Don't need to get there fast, stay pretty close to home, and don't want large fuel bills and tow vehicles( hence the C Dory). Anymore questions on the BW side I would be glad to talk but you can also check out this website- continuouswave.com. Good luck and tight lines...
 
The choice is just like the one between a multi-purpose (really all-purpose) family van and a convertible sports car or motorcycle,
and we all know which one shows up in the for sale ads on Craig's List when a newborn is expected. :wink

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Crenity, Boris, Joe, et al,

On the other hand, I recently started riding again after a 30+ year hiatus and the family van went the way of the setting sun many moons ago.

Cruising in a walk around vs cruising in a C-Dory is like camping in a Mini Cooper vs camping in a Sprinter View.

The 22 Cruiser is the VW bus of the boating world. I am not the first to make that comparison.

For boating in your area, and considering a young family safety, it seems a no brainer. It only takes one wave, one time to swamp an open boat. That can happen on a clear day with glassy flat water. It does not take a storm to create a destructive wave. Even in my 22, 12 miles from shore on a glassy flat Strait of Juan, I have taken green water to, not through, the forward hatch. Just on single wake, noted slowed and angled correctly. An open 19 would have been filled in 5 seconds. I had less than 5 gallons that made it to the cockpit, and discharged via the twin bilge pumps.

JMHO, admittedly biased, based on research, experience and daily practice.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
Given the ability to stay dry in a cabin, the dinette, sink, 20 gallons of water,a berth to sleep in and the C-Dory's ability to take big waves on the nose with out fear of the bow getting dumped on by a wave would be enough for me to go C-Dory. I think Boston Whalers are great boats but over priced given their feature set. I would also wonder what the new Boston Whaler is worth two minutes after you buy it? C-Dory's seem to hold there value very well as long as they are maintained like anything else. I think money wise and considering the feature set the one thing I would want to make sure of was the motor was solid on a used piece. Most new four strokes can handle a lot of hours before anything major is required. Get a good surveyor to check the boat and get the motor checked out by a competent factory authorized dealer. Good Luck with your search.
D.D.
 
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