URGENT EMERGENCY DSC CALL BUTTON USE

H

hardee

New member
URGENT EMERGENCY DSC CALL BUTTON USE

For several years I have been using a pair of Standard Horizon HX851 Handheld VHF's and YES they have an on board GPS and are DSC equipped. It was my understanding that the DSC will work without an MMSI number in the radio, BUT as such, when a “Red Button Emergency Call” is activated, it does not give out the identifier info that comes with an MMSI registration, SO, response time will be delayed. I had been taught that the emergency call would be transmitted, but that the MMSI data base would not be available (No MMSI number) and only the SOS request with the GPS lat and long would be transmitted.

After some discussion on another thread here on C-BRATS, “ Handheld VHFs with GPS/DSC “ at:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=362053#362053

I decided to get specific information from the Standard Horizon Technical Team. This is what I asked:

“Juan, Thank you for your response. I need to see if I understand this correctly. Without an MMSI number stored in the Standard Horizon HX851, when the RED button is pressed, there is ABSOLUTELY NO TRANSMISSION from the HX851 at all. Is that what you mean by "The Distress button requires the radio to have an MMSI programmed. Otherwise it will not function"?

And Juan's answer:

“Without an MMSI number the radios digital selective calling(DSC) features are not active. The Distress button is a DSC feature and needs an MMSI number to function. There is nothing to transmit without the MMSI.”
Best regards,
Juan Hernandez

j.hernandez@yaesu.com
Yaesu USA / Standard Horizon
6125 Phyllis Drive, Cypress, Ca 90630
Ph: 714-827-7600
Fx: 714-527-9472


Bob Austin also supplied this information:
“Below are direct quotes from the Public Information Officer, CG District NO #8. This person is a 33 year veteran of the CG and a very active Gulf Coast recreational boater and fisherman. I know the individual personally and he has stated many times that for DSC to work you must have the MMSI programmed in.”

Quote from USCG PIO:
“The easiest thing to do is use your VHF DSC Distress button. WARNING, it doesn't work if it's not set up properly. Setting up properly would include installing your MMSI number into the radio.

When you first power the radio up (like first second or two) an MMSI will show up on the screen if an MMSI has been programmed. You will also get some indication on the radio screen that you have a GPS signal in the radio. The language varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Next time you are with your boat, take a look.”

Harvey Here. So for Me, My fixed mount VHF's have my MMSI programmed into them and my Handhelds will now BOTH be MMSI enabled. And I would
HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you do the same with your VHF radios. You do want that function. It is part of the safety tour I do, before I leave the dock with any guests. “Lift the red door, Push the red button and hold for 5 seconds – count them, then release,”

MMSI numbers are easy to get via USPS or Boat US. (Free) and via US FCC for a fee, but those numbers are registered in an internationally accessible data bank so that if you are outside US waters, a " foreign" responding agency is still able to access that data and know what vessel they are looking for.

From USPS (United States Power Squadron) web site:

Quote:
“Modern marine radios now feature Digital Selective Calling (DSC) for routine operations and for automated distress hailing.
These features can only be used if your radio is programmed with a unique code called a Maritime Mobile Service Identity, or MMSI.”


And regarding DSC Emergency call testing:

From CG web site: The MMSI number is a general all CG stations number. Each CG station also has a specific MMSI number

Quote:
For VHF DSC radios equipped with the Test Call feature, test transmissions should be made to the US Coast Guard MMSI 003669999 to receive an automated VHF DSC test response. You must use the “Test Call” category of your radio because “Individual” category calls to this address will not receive an automated response. For older radios not having a test call capability, testing can only be performed by using a routine individual call to their Maritime Mobile Service Indentity (MMSI).

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL A DSC DISTRESS ALERT BE SENT TO TEST YOUR RADIO. IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE RULES AND CAN RESULT IN HEAVY FINES.

Harvey Here again. My one concern with using the DSC Emergency Red Button is that it will set off a DSC call to any (every) vessel within range that has DSC equipped VHF radios. For many, that loud alarm sound, (Unless they are trained and practiced) will be disorientating and confusing and very likely cause a delay in their response.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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Thanks Harvey, good to know.

I do have a MMSI number enter in my current VHF but, I did replace a VHF a few years ago (on my previous boat), and did not bother getting and entering a MMSI number right away thinking rescue will come to the coordinate anyway and look for a boat in distress. Guest I was wrong. Thanks again for clarifying that and I agree that it should be made a lot more obvious in the literature.
 
I do the required FCC Radiotelephone Safety Inspections on commercial vessels and I am constantly amazed at how often I run into people that have not programmed their DSC radio with their MMSI. It's easy and it really helps with an emergency response. The other thing to do, if your radio does not incorporate a GPS, is to hook the radio to the vessel's GPS so that the coordinates of where you are located are transmitted as well. Obviously, can't do that with most handhelds.

Commercial vessels have their MMSI assigned when they get their FCC station license. Recreational vessels, if they don't have an FCC license, can get an MMSI from BoatUS.

I've received a couple of DSC distress calls underway. One was promptly handled by the CG because all the info was programmed in. The other had an incorrect MMSI and the CG was frantically calling trying to figure out who the vessel was and where they were. In that case the MMSI really seemed to be a fake and the call was likely a hoax. That is why in most radios, you can only program the MMSI once, maybe twice. They don't want people programming an MMSI, making a hoax call, and then changing the MMSI.

Personally, I like knowing that anyone on the vessel can press that red button and get help, especially if I am incapacitated for some reason.
 
Thanks for clarifying this and posting for us. I'm one of those that thought the button would still work albeit without the specific boat info.

I have my "Restricted radio operators license" - required in Canada to operate a VHF. It is however over 20 years old and I need to take an updated coarse that includes DSC operation. I am very good at procrastinating!

One of the things the dealer that sea trialed our new boat for us told me was to do a test transmission on the VHF every time out.


Another thing I recommend is that when anchored out for the afternoon - leave your VHF on. The squelch can be turned up and the volume down but if it is on you will still hear emergencies including extreme weather alerts. Learned this after getting caught out in a severe and fast moving storm on Lake Erie.

Regards,

Rob
 
I recently learned the VHF in my boat was programmed with a phony MMSI (if it was real it would have been issued in Croatia?????). I've just got a new MMSI issued from the FCC but now I need to send the radio back to Uniden so they can wave their magic wand over it so I can program my new MMSI. If I ever need to use that little red button, all the hassle will have been worth it.
 
Hi Karl,

You may wish to call Rogers Marine in Portland and ask if your radio is on their list for them to re-program the MMSI. They were able to put my new MMSI numbers into my radios in their shop. My radios were the models where the MMSI could only be entered once. Gary.
 
When I bought my boat about 6 years ago, it came with the original Raymarine VHF radio which included a DSC button. After taking my VHF radio course and obtaining my Restricted Radio Operators License which allows me to use a VHF radio in Canada, I looked at my radio and discovered that a MMSI number was programmed into the radio and it belonged to the original owner in Washington state. The next two owners, one in Washington and the next in Yukon, Canada never changed the MMSI. So I obtained a Canadian MMSI number as I did not want to send out a distress signal with the wrong information on it. I inquired about having the MMSI number changed by Raymarine. They told me that since my radio was over 10 years old it was a legacy product and they might be able to do it. I would still have to pay the fee, plus return international shipping to the US, which would have brought me to near $200. So I decided instead to upgrade to a new Standard Horizon GX2200 VHF. I programmed this to my new Canadian MMSI number. I also have two handheld Standard Horizon HX870 radios that we use sea kayaking and as spare/emergency radios when boating. Both of these have their own MMSI numbers. I kept my old Raymarine VHF radio on the boat as a spare/secondary radio, but I taped over the red botton so that it could not be used.
 
DayBreak":2d2qjpy0 said:
Hi Karl,

You may wish to call Rogers Marine in Portland and ask if your radio is on their list for them to re-program the MMSI. They were able to put my new MMSI numbers into my radios in their shop. My radios were the models where the MMSI could only be entered once. Gary.
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Some newer radios have a secret "handshake" that allows the owner reset the MMSI. But you have to contact the manufacturer for the method of doing it. I just had a SH radio reset, but I had to sent it to the manufacturer (and pay a fee and shipping) to get it done. They said that the radio I replaced it with can be done by the owner.

FWIW, I think that resetting the MMSI should be an owner function. I can reset my phone and clear the data off of it so I can sell, donate, or just toss it. Why can't I reset my radio?
 
ssobol":2g8s1985 said:
DayBreak":2g8s1985 said:
Hi Karl,

You may wish to call Rogers Marine in Portland and ask if your radio is on their list for them to re-program the MMSI. They were able to put my new MMSI numbers into my radios in their shop. My radios were the models where the MMSI could only be entered once. Gary.
Click to expand...

Some newer radios have a secret "handshake" that allows the owner reset the MMSI. But you have to contact the manufacturer for the method of doing it. I just had a SH radio reset, but I had to sent it to the manufacturer (and pay a fee and shipping) to get it done. They said that the radio I replaced it with can be done by the owner.

FWIW, I think that resetting the MMSI should be an owner function. I can reset my phone and clear the data off of it so I can sell, donate, or just toss it. Why can't I reset my radio?
Click to expand...

From gstraub post above:
" . . . I've received a couple of DSC distress calls underway. One was promptly handled by the CG because all the info was programmed in. The other had an incorrect MMSI and the CG was frantically calling trying to figure out who the vessel was and where they were. In that case the MMSI really seemed to be a fake and the call was likely a hoax. That is why in most radios, you can only program the MMSI once, maybe twice. They don't want people programming an MMSI, making a hoax call, and then changing the MMSI."
Click to expand...

Peter,
Good choice to keep that older radio as a second. You will find plenty of use for that along the way.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Another good reason to program your radio with a MMSI # for safety, you can poll your buddy's position. You must be connected to your chart plotter with NMEA 183 so when you pole your buddy or answer a destress call, their boat
shows up on your display without talking to them. This is great for checking in on them so they don't have to tell the world where they or you are, and makes it real easy to get to them fast.

Jim.
 
Getting ready to get an MMSI tomorrow, and I have to say, I don't understand how a safety feature like this is tied to paying into an organization like BoatsUS. I don't have anything against them, but I don't want to join right now, and I don't want to pay a fee to get an MMSI through them. Going to try https://www.usps.org/php/mmsi_new/index.php, we'll see how that goes.

I wonder who actually controls and archives these numbers?

The other thing I noticed in my research is that the newer handhelds, that I looked at, allow you to change the MMSI, without sending it back to the manufacturer, I think something to consider when you're buying a new unit.
 
zuunami, I didn't know Boat US was charging for the MMSI service, however, I have a membership so would not have been charged ---(from their website)

"BoatUS is responsible for relaying the MMSI registration information to the U.S. Coast Guard for search and rescue purposes.

MMSI numbers are free for BoatUS Members or $25 for non-Members."

Buy the membership and save that cost. And get a decent boating magazine for free. If you go through the US FCC the total comes to about $150 total, if I remember right. There are 2 tickets you need from FCC.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

7_SleepyC_at_Port_Harvey_001.thumb.jpg
 
zuunami":lm5yb6oc said:
Getting ready to get an MMSI tomorrow, and I have to say, I don't understand how a safety feature like this is tied to paying into an organization like BoatsUS. I don't have anything against them, but I don't want to join right now, and I don't want to pay a fee to get an MMSI through them. Going to try https://www.usps.org/php/mmsi_new/index.php, we'll see how that goes. ...
Click to expand...

Not the first time the US Government has farmed out government functions to 3rd parties that are allowed to charge a fee for the service.
 
ssobol, yes, that's my issue with the whole thing. I retired from the government after 35 years, and fought that sort of thing the whole time. If it's a government service, then have a government fee for it, don't farm it out to selected private organizations
 
The MMSI is administered by the government through the FCC. The option to get one through BoatUS is a way to get one for DOMESTIC use without having to go through the expense of getting a FCC Station license for the vessel. The MMSI you get through BoatUS is not stored in the international database at the ITU, so foreign agencies do not have access to the information. If you sail internationally, you need to have the FCC license anyway, and the MMSI is issued as part of that and that MMSI is stored in the international database.

Bottom line, the government is not farming the MMSI numbers out to BoatUS but allowing an easier and cheaper way to get one so boaters that are not required to have a FCC license do not have to go through that process and pay that fee.
 
Theoretically any recreational vessel (Voluntary License) who goes into foreign Ports is required to have the Ship's Radio License. There has been along exception (not enforced) that it is not required in Canada. If you go to the Bahamas, and in theory to Mexico or any other foreign waters then it is required. The Personal Locator beacon and EPRIB are all international registration in the SAT SAR data base.

From FCC:

The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:
Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.;
Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways;
Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways;
Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and,
Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio.
Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000.

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands), a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit.
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I got a MMSI number today free from USPS. Still don't understand why they can provide them for free, but BoatUS can't. I'm thinking BoatUS is just using it as a marketing tool - i.e., if I go to their site and see that it's going to cost $25 for a MMSI, why don't I just pay the extra fee for membership. But where does the $25 go?

I can see how someone could just program in a fake MMSI number (it's just a 9 digit code beginning with a 3 digit geo indicator) - but why in the world would someone want to make fake calls. I can't imagine that sort of activity is so prevalent that someone decided not to allow MMSI numbers to be easily changed on a unit as a deterrent, until recently.
 
Question for the experts, my fixed radio has a MMSI number, now I purchased a new handheld radio the iCOM IC-M94D plan to register a new different MMSI number for the handheld one.

1. If you press the DSC button on the main boat VHF radio and then later have to get out of the boat and are drifting then press the handheld DSC button you have 2 different DCS MMSI numbers listed how does the authorities / rescuers know where to go 1st?
 
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