Upgrades for Hammerhead

C

clayhubler

Member
Hello C-Brats,

I'm going to do some upgrades to the electrical system on my 2003 22 cruiser.

It's got 3 batteries in the stern lazarette compartments. It has a Xantrex 2500 inverter/charger, currently under the helm seat. We have the Wallas stove also.

I want to move the inverter to underneath the sink/stove, but I don't think it is ignition protected, so I'm considering removing the wallas and going with an induction stove as many have suggested, since the diesel tank is in there.

I want to put a 12v fridge in under the helm.

I have a yami2000 inverter generator that I'm going to mount above the splashwell, I think.

I just plan on using a small 200 watt heater powered with the inverter. I would like a propane furnace of some sort, but I think I'm going to run out of room.

We plan on using the boat for fishing mostly out of Ilwaco and on the Columbia, but also want to be able to overnight for several days at a time with the kids.

Anyways, I'm looking to hear what you guys think of this setup. I'm open to other configurations also, including maybe less electrical and more propane.

Thanks for anything you can offer
 
For me too many systems/things to buy/install/maintain and valuable storage space gone but each to their own; we'll see what others chime in with.

Jay
 
C-Green":ldxgp5u3 said:
For me too many systems/things to buy/install/maintain and valuable storage space gone but each to their own; we'll see what others chime in with.

Jay
Click to expand...

Guess it depends on how you use the boat. My boat does not have an inverter, but the battery charger, GVI, and associated stuff is under the sink in the galley cabinet. I have a Norcold fridge under the helm seat (we find it very useful).

I had an Kenyon built in stove, but it has expired. I plan to remove the stove and fill the hole. We will use one (or two) butane countertop stoves as needed.

I have a Honda generator and an electric heater. Also a window AC unit.

Depending on the trip, we may take the AC unit, or the heat depending on the expected weather. Sometimes neither.

I also took out the water tank under the aft dinette seat. This provides lots of storage space. I was going to put a water tank under the V-berth but we have found that bottled/jugged water works fine for us. You can also distribute the water containers around the boat in various places where they fit, rather than having all the water contained in one large place. If you have the storage spaces under the berth, you can put a lot of stuff in there.
 
Ideally the invertor should be placed as close to the batteries as practical. This avoids long runs of heavy wiring. It should not however be in an enclosed compartment with the batteries. My Trace invertor for example charges my batteries as well(150amps @ 12v) - if it was in the compartment with batteries it would inhale(via fan) fumes from batteries while charging which is damaging to its circuit boards. Mine is a 2500 watt as well which requires double aught wiring on the 12v side. Also a class T 250amp fuse. It also needs to be adequately ventilated - although this is relative to the expected loads it will experience. If 2 of your 3 batteries are dedicated house batteries you could opt for a 24v invertor which would allow for lighter wiring on the low voltage side. Not likely a good option for you since you already have the invertor and appropriate battery charger. Under a sink does not sound like the best place either - a dry ventilated space - yes I know, that space wherever it is on a small boat is premium real estate!

Regards,

Rob

P.S. When installing DO NOT coat battery terminals or cable ends with dielectric compound until after a bare metal to metal connection has been made and terminals torqued.
 
Lots of good comments: The 2500 watt inverter can easily draw 250 amps 12 volts. I have mine fused for 240 amps. My wiring is 1/0 and it only goes about 5 feet round trip. I have 180 amp hours available for inverter/ microwave. You can run the inverter on 600 or so watts, so figure 70 amps. That is a lot of current.

Your charger is probably 100 amps--that also is a lot of current! We don't know what batteries you have. Hopefully they are group 31, about 110 amp hours (usable 55 amp hours each--but one is saved for engine start, So with two group 31's you have usable 110 amp hours. Look very carefully what the current draw will be for an hour of use of the induction burner...or however long you will need it. Even at 70 amps, 12 volt draw, you will have used 65% of the available power in an hour.

If your batteries are in the lazaret area they will be about 20 feet round trip. Inverters work best when the voltage is kept up, so you want as little loss as possible. For the 20 feet ABYC standards will allow the 2/0 cable to give just a little over 200 amps. Your Xantrex inverter charger is not waterproof, so it must be in the cabin. Another way to do it is to put AGM batteries in the cabin, and then keep the cables shorter. The outboard charging cables can be of smaller size, since they are probably only carrying 20 amps max.

Although the 24 amp arrangement is better for wire size, then you have to switch over all of the lights, nav instruments, bilge pumps etc to 24 volts, unless you either have a dedicated 24 volt and a dedicated 12 volt house bank, plus an engine start battery. Plus, I believe the OP already has the 12 volt inverter charger.

I am not a fan of propane installed in the C Dory cabin, with out bilge sniffers and alarms--external shut off valves on propane tanks, which are properly drained overboard (in other words to ABYC standards). (We carry propane canisters in 4" PVC pipe, with vented bottom and a cap over the top, in the splash well. I have a single burner propane stove for cockpit use if we lost all electric power. I have used properly installed propane systems safely for many years when living aboard on larger boats.

Although I am doing all of my "pot cooking" on the induction burner, usually if I want to use the microwave also, I will go to the generator. If just the microwave, then I'll use the inverter. (The pure sine wave works slightly better with the microwave.) Be sure that your Xantrex modified sine wave, will work with the induction burner you choose. Many need pure sine wave inverters.

Lithium batteries, and all of the special chargers etc bring the price up to about the $3,000 or so range, plus. Lithium are much lighter and can be more deeply discharged.


Although a 200 watt heater will use about 20 amps, it will only run for about 5 hours off the batteries if they are 2 x 110 amp hours. If you have group 24 batteries they may be as low as 60 amp hours- x 2 = 3 hours use of heater.

As Ssobol, we use the generator (2200 watt Honda) for electric heating if necessary. We put in a 2.5 gallon water heater just under and behind the water faucets under the galley. This gives a very short tun, and no waste of water. But on the 22, I don't really see the need for a water heater.

A lot depends on what type of crusing you do. How much winter boating.
 
I question if 200w will provide enough heat. You might want to do some overnight test trials to determine heater sizes in your boat before you go much further in setting up your electrical. We use a 900/1500w elec heater and a small box fan to move the air around in the cabin and sometimes that is barely enough when its cold out. IMO using electric heat works well when 110v AC is available but uses far more power than a reasonably sized DC system can supply. We use the Wallas to heat the boat while on anchor.
Jim
 
Thanks for the input everybody.

I think the batteries are group 24. They came from the previous owner and are less than a year old, so I'm going to use them for now even though they aren't ideal.

The wife and I are really sold on a small dc fridge, so I need to find a new spot for the inverter. I don't think its safe under the galley with the diesel tank.

I know the 200 watt heater isn't much.

Maybe I should just put the fridge on the port side under the front dinette seat. I had wanted to keep all the wiring on the starboard side, but that configuration would allow me to keep the wallas.
 
I would keep the Wallas. The DC fridge makes a lot of sense. Diesel does not need 'ignition protection". But because of heat and potential other issues, I would not put an inverter right by the diesel tank.

We find that 600 or so watts in a heater is enough to take the chill off. But agree that 200 watts is basically a couple of 100 watt light bulbs worth of heat...
 
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