Update to core rot and removal.

Thanks for the link Teufelshunde. I just watched his series as well as others pertaining to core replacement. It is easy to fall down the YouTube rabbit hole!

Fishcather907, I looked at TotalBoat and those seem to be mostly wooden boats? I haven't searched through all of them yet, but YouTube videos are a great help. I will go to the West System videos as well and see if there are videos from the makers of the products I'm thinking of using.

Thanks all.

Jackie
 
I wanted to lay in the layers of mat and 1708 against the hull maybe several days before putting in the core.


Maybe I was not clear: is there a reason you want to thicken the bottom of the boat's inner laminate? Unless you have ground away a large amount of glass, you want to put the core directly onto the old inner hull glass using the 954. After this, then the layers of 1708 on top of the new core--to form the new deck that you will walk on.

Generaly you want to do as much as you can when the layer below is still not completely cured to get the best bond--"green" is the term used. With Resin infusion you lay in all of the dry components, and then create a vacuum which sucks in the resin all at once. When boats are laid up, there are layers of mat and roving laid in concentrically then more layers etc. You don't want full curing between layers.

For laying in the balsa core, using vinyl ester resin is a good choice. Coat the core with resin, (see article), and a light coat of resin on the inner part of the hull where your going to place the core material. Then trowel in the 954 bedding compound, lay in the balsa core.

Yes, I would do the boat in sections--doing the bow first, seems best for logistics I would trowel in the 954 and lay the 3/4" balsa core directly on it. Then weights on top to let it go off. None of the 954 will come thru the balsa. I would put a thin layer of mat (3/4 oz) between the layers of balsa to get better bonding. Then put in the second layer of 3/4". However, it this case, it might be better to put in the 1 1/2" core after the first layer of 3/4". The 1.5" core would again go directly into the 954.weighted down and allowed to go off. (again coating both the core and hull with vinyl ester resin) I would bring the mat between the two layers of 3/4" sweep up the forward part of the 1.5" this would give a better bond between the parts of the floor.

After you have all of the balsa done, you will then begin to build the new inner skin (the deck you walk on).. You may want to use the less expensive polyester resin there. If you have some of the vinyl ester you can use it for tabbing. It will be 1708 mat side down, mat, 1708 mat side down. Again logistics of access may dictate how quickly you can work and still be able to move backward in the hull. The last layer of 1708 and mat may be swept up on the side of the hull a short distance. You will put a layer of mat on the surface for the smoother finish. The final floor finish which is similar to the original is to thicken resin with cabosil so it retains peaks as you roll it on--that makes a nice finish and non skid deck. An alternative is to finish with one of the nonskid paints.

Epoxy Works which is a free publication of Gougeon Brothers, Inc., us a fantastic resource, even if you are working in polyester or vinyl ester resigns.
Here is an article dealing with a small section of damaged core

From the 5th photo on down, is where you want to pay attention.

The "BoatWorks Today" are a fantastic resource. The one linked to, is replacement of plywood core and preservation of the original deck surface. A lot depends on what the surface is, and how the job is being done. But there are some significant differences there and with what you will be doing. All of these are resources which should be used and applied to your work.


Here is a piece on working with vinyl ester resin and a light boat repair. You have to read between the lines as to what applies to your boat. But note that in general you want to put the new balsa onto the old skin. Keep the boat light. The bonding putty is what fills the gaps etc which are going to be present even after grinding.

Looking at the LBI web site, it appears as if they have all of the materials you need. except the balsa. You might price out their products and shipping. It is in CT, but having all shipped at once might give best shipping price. Maybe things like the 1708, mat and polyester resin could be obtained locally.
 
Once again, thank you for the resources. I will look them all over carefully. The reason I said I wanted to put layers down under the balsa was because of something you said when I first posted about this in April. That thread was called something like cracks around seat boxes and v-berth flexing. You said
One worry I have is that there is some compromise of the outer layer of glass. Because of that, I probably would put a layer of 1708 and another layer of mat on the bottom before laying the new Balsa core. It will make the hull a little thicker there, but also much stronger. Fiberglass which has flexed multiple times becomes weaker as some of the fiber/resin bonds break down, leading to a "floppy hull". You don't have that yet most likely. (Even a floppy hull boat can be saved with foam stringers.)

Of course at that point it wasn't clear how much I was going to have to remove.:shock: Most of the hull seems pretty sound, but there is an area in the center to the port of the keel that seems soft. It is the only area that I haven't gotten well supported yet so maybe that is part of it (and I'll do that before I go further) but I can flex it with my foot. It is where the worst of the liquified core was and the fiberglass is all black and seems worn there. I see the wisdom of not covering everything, but at least that area might benefit from an extra helping of fiberglass before putting in the core. Would that be possible to do as I was laying everything in?

Jackie
 
Hi Jackie.

For that limited area, I would grind down the glass very carefully to get into good glass. 'for that area, then I would go ahead and feather in some mat and 1708. You will have to taper this out to the sides and forward, so there is not a "lump". When putting in this type of "patch", a ratio of 12 : 1 is commonly used. instead you can lay the two layers of 1708. near the center, then some mat out a bit further, then the second layer of 1708 further out, and finally some mat out round the area. Then this will be allowed to harden, grind to feather it in.

Yes, my original post was assuming that you were only going to take out a limited amount of core. But if the boat seem floppy now, I would go ahead and put in some re-inforcement.

How big an area do you think you need to re-inforce?
 
Well, It’s been forever it seems but I am finally making headway. When I ordered my balsa I was told it would be about 5 weeks before it arrived in Homer and then it would be mailed on to me. It took a bit longer than that, but I used the time to sand and get ready…and procrastinate. When the balsa finally arrived in Homer I was told it would be $237 to send it UPS Next day air to Ketchikan! Yikes. I asked about the good old post office and that brought the price down to $86. It was supposed to be 7-10 day shipping. I figured it would truck to Anchorage then be put on a plane, but apparently it got barged from Anchorage to Seattle then back up to Ketchikan. It took 5 weeks! Everything about this job has taken longer and been even harder than I expected. But I’m doing it.

It took me three days (but I'm not putting 8 hr days by any means) to cut out the balsa to fit my space. When I finally had it ready and numbered for ease of actual installation I got my sons to help. I was in the boat spreading the bedding compound and laying in the balsa, they were outside coating the kerfs in the balsa and mixing the two solutions as needed. It was quite the ballet but we got 26 square feet of balsa laid in about an hour. Definitely not my favorite job ever. I’ve spent the last few days filling small gaps and resanding to get ready for laying the cloth skin which I’m going to tackle tomorrow.

This has taken sooooo long and if this had been a nice summer I’d be really annoyed. As it is we have had near record breaking rains so I haven’t been missing any good boating weather. I'll post pics soon.
 
Well I finally got the fiberglass laid on the floor. It was not fun. Not even a little. I posted pics in my album. I still cannot get them posted inline here. I've tried to follow the directions offered but they just aren't working on my MacBook. Could be OHS...

I bought ¾ oz CSM and 1708 biaxial glass to do the floor. It came packaged in tall boxes that I didn’t bother to open until I got ready to do the job. When I looked at it the stuff seemed so thick that I thought perhaps I’d said 3 oz CSM? But it was correct so I made a small test patch to see how thick it would be when done. My lamination plan was mat, 1708, 1708, mat. That kept it symmetrical and I laid the 1708 in different directions in between. The small test was pretty thin and taught me a bit about the art, but I really wish I had had more experience. I learned a lot as I went but that means I made some mistakes.

My biggest mistake was underestimating how really flat the surface should be. My sections of flooring had some spots where they didn’t meet up perfectly height wise for some reason. I fared them out, but maybe not far enough, so I really had to work at getting the air out. Because my area was so large, almost 10 ft long and averaging 3 ft wide, I cut each layer into 3 sections, varying the seams. I had a section of the back deck that I could get on and had set up for resin mixing and had my glass pieces rolled up and marked sitting in the transom. My plan was to lay bow to stern, cover the back sections with plastic so that I could crawl forward on wet glass and start the next layer. It wasn’t possible to do such a large area without getting on the wet layers.

The first layer of course went OK, but when I started the second I found that the plastic REALLY sticks to the wet stuff and wants to pull it up. After fixing a huge mess and redoing a bunch of my work, I decided to lay down all the sections of each layer, back to front, so that the dry fabric was under the plastic. Of course the resin soaked through in spots, as it should, but that stickiness was easier to deal with. Then I would coat the front with resin, work out the air, get off the excess move back a little and repeat. Wherever I placed a hand, knee or foot, the pressure when I moved would bring the glass up so I spent a lot of time really trying to get out air that was introduced by me having to get on the surface. I’m not sure I was 100% successful, but I promise to keep the boat forever.

I also had trouble keeping my layers staggering away from the edge in the section nearest the stern so I have a pretty nice line that is going to need more sanding than I’d like, but all in all I think it will be okay. Still a lot to go. I had to cut out the vee berth bunk so it has to be replaced. And I had to cut the ‘fins’ off it in order to make it narrow enough to remove from the cabin so there is repair work there. Plus putting the seats back in: those were also cut away from the sidewall unit. But I’m going to do those repairs with epoxy. They don’t touch what I just did so I don’t think bonding will be a problem. I feel like I’ve gotten through the worst, but, hey, it’s 2020 so there will probably be a new worst just around the corner.
 
Great job Jackie! I made a comment about tabbing back in the seats and V berth platform. Only grind the surface to give good area to put tabbing--3" up on side and 3" on th v berth, and second of 1 1/2 to 2" on top. That can be smoothed and painted.

I wondered how you were going to do the "bridging." I can understand the struggle! Also the delay to get the materials was difficult to say the least. Hopefully there were other great things for you to do during this period.
 
Too late for this suggestion but I talked with somebody the other day about how they did a deck repair with three layers of glass over a large complex surface. They told me that they had used 6 inch wide fiberglass mesh tape. Cut the first strip into a 2 inch and 4 inch. When you start laying them right, all the remaining joints are staggered using full width 6 inch tape (which has a finished edge) and he could work backwards like tiling a floor. Only the ends needed to be cut. Much easier than working with sheets.

I couldn't see any of the seams in the top layer of 6 inch mesh strips even though there would have been about 20 of them. I think the secret in that is KiwiGrip deck paint. That's what I used to make my deck repair disappear. $40 a liter and you'll probably need two. It goes on really thick, so it doesn't go very far. It is easy to get a "professional" look.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php

Mark
 
Thanks Bob and Marco. I did the work yesterday and left it alone today to fully cure (and to recuperate!) But I went to check on it and it was so nice to walk around on a nice firm deck! My daughter was surprised that it is clear. I had numbered the sections of fabric 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, etc and all the lettering showed through the various layers. I can't see my seams, but maybe because I was concentrating on the areas I need to touch up.

I did spend my wait time grinding down the area I need to apply tabbing for the bunk and also ground the matching areas on the bunk itself plus the spots I'll make my repairs to the fins that surround the porta potty hole. We had literally 4 sunny days so far since May and I used them to get the stuff outside for the grinding. I am not going to tab back in the roughly trapezoidal piece that sits on the bunk right in the nose. If I ever need to get to the hardwear up there (nuts holding the cleats in and bow roller and something else)I want to be able to. I figure I'll use some 5200 or something to stick some blocks of wood in toward the bow that I can screw into.

When it comes to tabbing in my seats, I'm afraid I'm going to break your heart, Bob. I've decided to screw them in unless you can all convince me otherwise. It will be awkward since the rest of the sidewall is tabbed down, but I firmly believe that the design as it was is what allowed water to get under the seat tabbing and crack it when it froze. That was completely unrelated to the core issues.

My seats had tabbing inside the box on all four sides so that the interior was closed off. But underneath, between the inside tabbing and the outside tabbing, was a large groove that allowed the water coming in from the open front of the seat box foot rest to flow all around the box underneath its tabbing, the sidewall tabbing, and between the sidewall and the hull. There was no exit for the water at the back by the transom which is why, on the port side, my sidewall and seat box separated all the way. As I laid the glass I sealed the places where water could go down along the side wall. I will obviously have to glass back in my seats where I cut them away from the wall, but I'm not going to tab the front inside of the boxes and I'm going to overdrill and fill (really well) screw holes for the flange on the outer part of the seat. Then my seats will look like Marco's: open in the front all the way and screwed down so water can actually escape. Putting the seats back will require me to work with gel coat. Expect more questions then!

Marco, I really like the deck paint in your album. Nice job. I talked to the owner of our marine store here and he has a product he uses a lot. I'm not sure if it is the same, but due to shipping times I'm going with whatever he carries. I'll let you all know what it is. The part that isn't grippy though, just the paint like for refinishing the vee berth - how do I get it to match what is already there? Is there a particular color C-Dory uses?

I'm leaving town on the 8th and really hope I can finish everything in time to at least go for a spin.
 
If you must screw the seats into the bottom, be sure that you over bore the holes, put in a thickened epoxy plug and then screw into that. If you screw into the balsa core, you will have the problem down the line. I am not sure where putting in screws will serve you any better than tabbing. If you wish you only have to put a few 1" to 2" tabs in, and you can leave a space under if you want.

If there is an area where water has pooled, I would be sure to put a "limber hole" there to allow the water to freely exit. If you tab all around there will be no way for water to get into any of the core.

I probably would just paint the interior. "Hatteras white". is very close to the gel coat used on the C Dory color wise. If you use white gel coat, you have to tint it, just a little yellow, a little brown and maybe a splash of blue....We have a gal in Pensacola who is a real artist doing gel coat and 2 part paint spraying. She has a devil of a time matching the C Dory gel coat--but when she gets it right--it is perfect--even if she has to do it over a few times. This reminds be I have a ding made by the anchor late one night this spring--and I have to get the pigments out and do a "match".

I am not quite sure what the blocks of wood are for. But I usually use epoxy and hold in place with hot glue unit the epoxy sets up.

Also I would make some fiberglas "Pilars" where the SS tubing supported the berth. They will be as strong, and give a much better support, with no risk of water intrusion.

Go with what ever paint is available. Do they already have a "grit" in it, or do you have to add the grit? I like glass beads over sand or walnut shells. Another way is to make a thick gel coat with Cabosol and roll it on. This is how some of the hull inner surface are done in many of the factory boats. We did this on the cockpit of the 25 when we replaced the floor. You want the gel coat to 'stand up" in little tufts.

Your boat is better than new now! You don't have to finish everything before going for a ride--just get the rigging back up, a seat and away you go. Heck even a lawn chair would work if you don't have the seats tabbed in yet....(in calm water).
 
I'm hoping to finish my sanding/grinding of the humps and lumps today and get everything ready for replacing the v-berth bunk and seats tomorrow. Starting to replace anyway. Nothing goes fast on this job. But I have a question for you, Bob: how do I form the 'pillars' to hold up the bunk? Should I wrap fg around a dowel and tab it in? Or do I actually just roll the wetted cloth into a tube? That doesn't seem right. Is there a third option I'm missing?

I've decided not to screw the seats in but that raises a question about resins. I plan to use epoxy when tabbing in the bunk. It won't be touching any of the area that I just did on the floor, I had the epoxy already and it won't stink to high heaven or be quite so temperature dependent and will make a better bond. But, tabbing in the seats I WILL be contacting the floor. I have about a quart of the vinyl ester left as well as some of the waxed polyester for the finishing coat. Would it be better to stick with that or can I use the epoxy? Where I cut the seat away is clean so I know the epoxy would be fine there, but will it adhere well to the new floor? I know there can be an issue with secondary bonding between polyester and epoxy.
Thanks for any advice!
 
Hi Jackie.

First I prefer epoxy, but for the tabbing any resin will work. You just won't have the primary chemical bond you have with the full laminate.

In any place where you are going to attach new "elements" with glass and some resin, the surface must be clean of wax, amine blush (epoxy) or any other contaminates. The epoxy forms the best secondary bond, Vinyl Ester next, and then the polyester.

Good question about the bracket for the V berth area. You probably don't have any sections of flat glass material, or a composition. I probably would buy a "Closet rod" dowel--these are anywhere from our 7/8" to 1.25" in diameter. You can cut to fit the length you need, and put them in place with epoxy to start. That will set up and allow you to then wrap them with cloth and any resin you wish. I would make a "skirt" of mat around the bottom-that is, to take a piece of mat which will go around the diameter of the dowel with just a little over lap. Half of that cut 4 equally divided slits in the bottom of the "skirt". That will be spread out over the floor and the top under the fiberglass shelf. I would then put a second one one, which will cover the areas where it was "splayed out" with the first. The mat will work well into that pattern. You can then cover the rest of the dowel with glass, or even leave it painted.

Sounds like you are at the end of the project. Congratulations!
 
Jackie":sik9wr3y said:
I'm hoping to finish my sanding/grinding of the humps and lumps today and get everything ready for replacing the v-berth bunk and seats tomorrow. Starting to replace anyway. Nothing goes fast on this job. But I have a question for you, Bob: how do I form the 'pillars' to hold up the bunk? Should I wrap fg around a dowel and tab it in? Or do I actually just roll the wetted cloth into a tube? That doesn't seem right. Is there a third option I'm missing?

I've decided not to screw the seats in but that raises a question about resins. I plan to use epoxy when tabbing in the bunk. It won't be touching any of the area that I just did on the floor, I had the epoxy already and it won't stink to high heaven or be quite so temperature dependent and will make a better bond. But, tabbing in the seats I WILL be contacting the floor. I have about a quart of the vinyl ester left as well as some of the waxed polyester for the finishing coat. Would it be better to stick with that or can I use the epoxy? Where I cut the seat away is clean so I know the epoxy would be fine there, but will it adhere well to the new floor? I know there can be an issue with secondary bonding between polyester and epoxy.
Thanks for any advice!

Hello, I have been following along as I will be picking up my first cdory this weekend and it’s a 07 16ft cruiser. This thread has scared me. How can so much rot take over? Will the 07 likely be similar? The previous owner did have a soft spot between the seats on the floor and was professionally patched but I am used to aluminum and I am kind of worried. Any tips for me when I take a closer look at it? I want to make sure it’s rot free! :disgust
 
Jackie":10v1637w said:
I'm hoping to finish my sanding/grinding of the humps and lumps today and get everything ready for replacing the v-berth bunk and seats tomorrow. Starting to replace anyway. Nothing goes fast on this job. But I have a question for you, Bob: how do I form the 'pillars' to hold up the bunk? Should I wrap fg around a dowel and tab it in? Or do I actually just roll the wetted cloth into a tube? That doesn't seem right. Is there a third option I'm missing?

I've decided not to screw the seats in but that raises a question about resins. I plan to use epoxy when tabbing in the bunk. It won't be touching any of the area that I just did on the floor, I had the epoxy already and it won't stink to high heaven or be quite so temperature dependent and will make a better bond. But, tabbing in the seats I WILL be contacting the floor. I have about a quart of the vinyl ester left as well as some of the waxed polyester for the finishing coat. Would it be better to stick with that or can I use the epoxy? Where I cut the seat away is clean so I know the epoxy would be fine there, but will it adhere well to the new floor? I know there can be an issue with secondary bonding between polyester and epoxy.
Thanks for any advice!

Hello, I have been following along as I will be picking up my first cdory this weekend and it’s a 07 16ft cruiser. This thread has scared me. How can so much rot take over? Will the 07 likely be similar? The previous owner did have a soft spot between the seats on the floor and was professionally patched but I am used to aluminum and I am kind of worried. Any tips for me when I take a closer look at it? I want to make sure it’s rot free! :disgust
 
Clearly I might not be the best person to ask! I think the rot was my fault because I'd removed the screws in the posts that hold the bunk up and didn't put them back well. I removed the clip securing the porta potty but i did seal those holes. Once the water gets in a hole it is free to travel and will never evaporate. If my balsa kerfs had been well sealed the rot might not have traveled so far. And I kept using the boat well past the point I should have knowing what was happening. I think my case was extreme and rare.

Smarter folks than I can chime in here on what to look for. I'd check out all places where screws penetrate the deck. Remove them and drill out to see if it's wet. If not follow the recommendations you can find on here for over drilling and filling with epoxy. Once filled you should be safe. If it is wet prepare for a bit of excavation.

I love my boat and it's all on me that things got this bad. I paid for it yesterday when I lay my head in a puddle of epoxy while tabbing under the bunk. I spent a bit of time bent over washing my head with acetone!

Hope all goes well and you have many years of fun on your boat.
 
You need to sound and use a moisture meter to see what damage there is in the core.

First I am going to disagree a little with Jackie. It is not her fault. This started before she owned the boat when you look at the extent. Second it would probably only happen in a place where there is freeze and thaw cycles. Water gets in thru a screw hole (or any penetration, not sealed), it freezes and expands. Then as it melts, more water is dawn in--freeze thaw again. I do agree that it was very rare to see this extent.

As for looking at the 16 Takenotes is considering: You want to know where it was, and how it was repaired. Is there a core pentration near this point? If so, ask permission to remove that screw--and see if there is an epoxy core around it, or if there is water in the screw hole.. Next "sound" the boat's bottom and transom. Surveyors talk about a phenolic hammer--and that is what I use, but a plastic screwdriver handle, a dime or even your knuckles will give some idea. If it is a thud, instead of a higher "note", if there are variations thru the hull bottom, then look further.

Next is a moisture meter. I use a cheap General MMP7ND. You need the relative readings. There are precautions about meters. David Pascoe and Maine sail both have good information. (For some reason the site is not taking my full post, so I will break it up).
 
The next "test" is a moisture meter. You can either spring for a Tramex Skipper Plus for about $470, or a cheap one from Home Depot Like my General MMD7NP at Lowes or Amazon for $45. In-between is the Electrophysics CT33. What you are looking at is % reading between several different areas--a dry one and a suspect area. There are some negatives with moisture meters, including don't read surfaces which were recently wet, been sitting in water (IE on haul out day for a survey). Metal containing bottom paint, near areas of metal (like screws or support plates). There are FLIR Infra red cameras. For example t he FLIR attachment for smart phone for $400....Actually my FLIR night vision scope can give a lot of information. (If you happen to have one of those...).

Let us know what you find. The proper repair would have been to pull the top layer of fiberglass off, find the wet core, remove it, clean up and then put in new core, cover with new glass--I prefer epoxy. Be sure that all of the screws go into an epoxy plug. Any screw in a cored deck or hull should go into epoxy plug...but very few boat builders do this.
 
Well, I am pretty much done...and done in! I have had a family trip obligation on the books leaving Sept 8 for ages, but wanted one test ride before I left. I got everything replaced and ready, at least to the point of running the boat, and will finish off when I return at the end of the month.

I uploaded photos. First I got the bunk in place and reattached the 'fins' I'd had to cut off even with the porta potty slot. The cuts had been necessary in order to get the bunk out since I couldn't remove my sidewalls. Then I tabbed the underneath of the bunk about 20 inches back. Once all that set up I tabbed the top. The bunk does not actually touch the hull at the start and the gap is over an inch. It lessens as it moves toward the bow. Since a lot of the tab would be over open air, I laminated the strips together first and placed them from bow back working side to side. I think it is quite strong, but I was not able to keep a shallow groove from forming along the side. Oh well, If any water gets in the berth it will funnel to the edge and out. But if I'm getting water up that high, I might have other problems! I sanded that area before starting the seat boxes.

My sons helped with the first seat box and it went smoothly, but we realized they were so close together we'd never get the second one in without ruining the work on the first. By evening it had set up and I did the second. There has been no sanding but it looks pretty good, though you can see the fuzzy fibers on my slapdash job on the bunk posts. Needs some work in several places. Time will tell if I can get it smooth and pretty for painting. I'm using a two part epoxy paint and the topcoat should be in when I get home. I ordered a color from their chart that was the closest match to the sample I had. I'm not gonna try gelcoating. Right now it is all raw fiberglass but I'm happy.

I charged up the battery and reinstalled everything. Got my Coast Guard required safety gear, lines, bouys, lifejackets, etc off my son's boat where they had managed to land, packed some steak to cook at the cabin and the boys and I loaded up and put in at the marina. Of course the engine wouldn't start. :sad . The kicker did and I have a slip there, so we motored over to it and started troubleshooting while everybody in the world putted past us on their way to enjoy the last day of Knudsen Cove's Silver Salmon Derby. It's a sad feeling. My son-in-law has since fixed it. The battery had sat for too long and wasn't quite strong enough to turn the motor over. I still had packing to do so we just headed home and grilled there. BUT - it will be ready to go when I get there and here's to hoping the nice weather holds. We broke our last rainiest summer record with over 47 inches in June, July and August. It finally got nice the day before I left. You're welcome, Ketchikan.
 
Jackie, you are an inspiration! If I am ever again tempted to complain about something I need to fix, I will just think of you, and no doubt a more positive attitude will show up.

P.S. Speaking of rain in Ketchikan.....many years ago, I had to go to Juneau on business. I had never been to Alaska before that trip. The flight had a hour+ layover in Ketchikan. I de-planed to see what I could see. I was staring out the airport window while, no surprise to you, it was raining heavily. I struck up a conversation with a local, and eventually asked: "Hey, how much rain do you guys get around here in a year, anyway?" He replied: "Oh, about 13 feet." I was dumbfounded. For this California kid, it never occurred to me than annual rainfall might be measured in feet instead of inches.
 
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