Twin Suzuki EFI 20's on a light 16

C

Carolina Sturgeon

New member
Need to repower and was thinking of repowering with those cool 20 hp's as they are EFI and light. We just day cruise and run light out to SC coastal islands and up the rivers exploring. Obviously not a powerhouse, but great for slow cruises and getting on a plane sometimes. Twin 25's are a consideration too. Would permatrims help on a set up like this? I like the pull start option also. Not really interested in resale aspects.

Thanks for opinions on an odd question.
 
consider two E-Techs of low HP instead. More torque, less weight at the stern. Excellent engines. No, I have no interest in them other than I own one and I own two Suzys.
 
Although the ETecs are not always "light." When I was shopping for my 22, I was impressed with the relative lightness of the ~90 hp Etec. Then I saw a 22 for sale that had twin 40hp Etecs. Looked up the specs - preparing to be pleased - and saw they were actually quite heavy as compared to something like a Honda 40/50. I guess it doesn't always scale. (Not sure about smaller than 40hp though; maybe they go back to being "light.")
 
Sunbeam, most companies will use one block and tune or de tune it for various hp ratings. I am not familiar with the Etec 40 but it may be that it is a detuned larger(heavier block). On the plus side it would have more low speed torque than if it was a smaller block tuned for max hp.

Regards, Rob
 
Understood on the various blocks. The Yamaha 40/50 splits that way. I only mentioned the Etec 40's because it seems that "light" is a hallmark of the Etec (and the 90 is impressively light), and two-strokes in general so folks naturally assume all the Etecs are light (I know I did); but that doesn't carry through to all the Etec models apparently. For example, Etec 40 is 245#.

I don't know 20/25 hp engines enough to know what is light and what isn't without checking them all.
 
When comparing outboards, look at the block--15/20 hp is a 20 cu in block (108 lbs) 25/30 hp are a 29.8 cu in block (168 lbs) and 40/50 hp are a 57.4 cu in block (229 lbs).

So in the 20 hp, you are really getting a 15hp with different valve timing, and perhaps slightly different injectors. Generally the difference between the 15 and 20 is going to be at higher RPM (over 4000 RPM). Do the two 15's have enough power? It will be questionable.

Then the cost of maintenance of two engines--does this make sense?
Pretty much the minimum for the 16 seems to be 40 hp (in this case, 40-50 hp a 57.4 cu in block, which weighs about 11 more lbs) would make more sense to me than twins which will probably have less pushing power (torque) than the larger engine.

Back in the late 50's it was usual to have a manual start 40 hp outboard. So there is minimal advantage to the "manual start" of a 20 hp.

One other item to look at is the alternator output--in this case it is a wash, with 10 amps each for the 20 hp and 19 amps for the 40/50 hp. (probably slightly more power available, since you are running only one engine, with its use of electrical power.

The "cool" factor of two engines? Better maneuvering? It is a 16 foot boat, which you can paddle in a pinch…

I would vote for a single 40/ 50 hp vs the less power of the twin 20's. I don't know about the costs--but that might trend to cheaper on the twin 20.

The Permatrims, will help to get the bow down in chop. They may take a mile or so off the top end. They will get you up on a plane faster, and allow a slightly lower planing speed.
 
Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic.
 
Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic.
 
Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic.
 
We had the 16 cruiser with a 40 hp Honda We put an over-sized Doel fin on it and the ride was remarkable difference The Doel Fin is $30 bucks and getting the larger one for bigger engines it worked Great . trim tabs just makes for another system to take care off .The Angler and Cruiser do ride differently .Cruisers need Permatrim ,Doelfin Bobs machine shop fin or trim tabs .Get the Doel fin and be happy and save some $$.
 
As a died in the fin "twins" guy, I like your idea of thinking twins, ...... however, twins on a 16 does seem, even to me to be somewhat over the top. they would still have the 8) 8) factor, but that is a pretty small transom. On my 15 sailboat, I put oarlocks on and it would row OK, if I needed it. Of course with a boat that small, it was easy and weighed in about the same as a C-D 16.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_055.highlight.jpg
 
jennykatz":198ur29v said:
We had the 16 cruiser with a 40 hp Honda We put an over-sized Doel fin on it and the ride was remarkable difference The Doel Fin is $30 bucks and getting the larger one for bigger engines it worked Great . trim tabs just makes for another system to take care off .The Angler and Cruiser do ride differently .Cruisers need Permatrim ,Doelfin Bobs machine shop fin or trim tabs .Get the Doel fin and be happy and save some $$.
Click to expand...

Good idea, Jim!

I can say that I'm always amazed at how much difference a hydrofoil of one type or another makes on a boat, especially on small ones and ones that are over loaded with gear.

As an alternative (and to have some FUN!), I've made one for a small boat myself out of 1/8" aluminum sheet.

Design it yourself. I made mine for a 12 foot Gregor runabout as big as I dared, knowing the boat was stern heavy and short as well.

Aluminum is easy to cut, finish, polish, and drill.

The more difficult part is modeling the cutout for the lower unit where it fits on top of the anti-ventilation plate, but this can be done with heavy tag board to get the fit just right.

In fact, the whole foil should be modeled in tag board and fitted to the motor, then used as a template to cut out and fit the final product.

Piece of cake, and fun, too!

The aluminum sheet can be a hardened alloy or even stainless, but the metal working will get progressively difficult with the increasing hardness.

Easier just to use a thicker sheet of basic aluminum, IMHO! (Unless you have a machine or sheet metal shop available!)

Good Luck!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sea Wolf":1o3i5sri said:
Aluminum is easy to cut, finish, polish, and drill.
Click to expand...

The Metal Supermarkets around where I live will sell you a piece and cut it to your exact specs.

A friend of mine made swim platform for his Magregor 26 with marine plywood covered with a sheet of aluminum checkerplate. He sold it a few years later so I don't know how well it weathered but it actually looked pretty good.

Regards, Rob
 
Hi jennykatz,
I can go with you on this one. With a 50 Honda and a regular-sized Doelfin, the bow comes down very smartly, and in that attitude the gas milage seems to be improved. At steady throttle, bringing down the bow can add up to 4 Kn as measured on GPS. I'm at a loss to explain the different behaviour from that described by jimicliff, because I see no need for trim tabs if I load the boat appropriately (at rest, she sits on her lines when I am aboard.)
I would have bought a Permatrim for this OB, but the plate was already drilled by the PO, and it turned out that the spacing fit a Doelfin. No filling and no new holes necessary. Hallelujah!
Happy New Year,
Rod
 
Hi jennykatz,
I can go with you on this one. With a 50 Honda and a regular-sized Doelfin, the bow comes down very smartly, and in that attitude the gas milage seems to be improved. At steady throttle, bringing down the bow can add up to 4 Kn as measured on GPS. I'm at a loss to explain the different behaviour from that described by jimicliff, because I see no need for trim tabs if I load the boat appropriately (at rest, she sits on her lines when I am aboard.)
I would have bought a Permatrim for this OB, but the plate was already drilled by the PO, and it turned out that the spacing fit a Doelfin. No filling and no new holes necessary. Hallelujah!
Happy New Year,
Rod
 
South - thanks for resurrecting, somehow I missed this back when it was active. When repowering my 16 Angler, the idea of twin 20's also crossed my mind, if only for the coolness factor. I previously had a 1956 16' Bell Boy cruiser with twin 25 hp Yamahas, that was super fun (photos in my album). With twins you run larger pitch props, but I carried a spare lower-pitch prop and could run the boat with just a single 25 and still get good speed in the low to mid 20's. The bellboy was a flat bottom boat like a C-dory too. One potential benefit of running twins on a small boat.
 
Yeah, the coolness factor would be off the charts Mike! The extra cost of twins, rigging and maintenance would be a bitch but hey, it's not cheap to look cool!

I suppose if one were to find some very low hour motors then maybe the bill wouldn't be TOO bad. They are only 20 hp's after all. Lol
 
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