twin 40 hp Honda’s with high hours (2,500). Run fine but?

E

easy does it

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Howdy: we are looking at a cruiser 22 (1st boat) twin 40 hp Honda’s with high hours (2,500). Run fine and serviced. so what would this mean really? Yes or No How many hours are they good for? Yes I know it depends but that is only as good as the honestly of the seller right? any thoughts appreciated. And yes it is a low price.
 
If tun lightly for the first 2,500 hours they might have a thousand or more left. Run a compression test. That will tell you a lot about future life.

David
 
I would not be concerned if they currently run good. they may have lots of life left. Look under the cowl. Our twin 40 Hondas were showing some corrosion at much lower hours after a life in saltwater. Since you say its priced low, you can run these until they're no longer reliable and replace with new fuel injected twins one day.
 
Most of the high hour motors (3,000 hours on up) are run daily, mostly in commercial operations, such as LEO or CG, Tow Boats, and a few charter operations (Many charter operations, use "program motors", sponsored by an outboard company with trade ins every year or two,)

I would have a good mechanic not only do compression tests, also but leak down, have the thermostats looked at (this also gives a chance to see internal corrosion), I don't know if there are any internal anodes in the 40's, but many outboards have them, which are neglected. If possible I would have bore scope inspection done also.

Although I have owned a number of Hondas, my experience is that they have a slightly higher incidence of corrosion in salt water.

A lot depends on how well the engines were maintained and run. But if buying a boat with 2500 hours on the engine, I would factor in the cost of new engines shortly. A close friend bought a boat recently, and although it less than 1,000 hours on the engine, it failed shortly after purchase. The replacement cost $15,000--a big hit on top of the purchase price! (150 hp)

Buyer beware.
 
2500 hours is a red flag under any circumstances. Base your buy price on the condition of the boat disregarding the engines. Then look up the value of used Honda motor of that year and with high hours. My guess is that the engines are worth one or two thousand each. so, add 2 to 4 grand to the "boat only" value (to you) and that will get you a good starting point. Piston aircraft engines that are generally far better maintained and operated than boat motors have FAA mandatory overhauls at 1800 to 2000 hours. So, any hours you get on the 2500 hour Honda's will be a roll of the slot machine handle, or should I say a push on the slot machine button. You will be talking 20 to 30 grand for an equivalent new engine upgrade. Add that to the buyers asking price and you will see where you will be sometime in the near future.

Good luck. Bargains are generally not.
 
potter water":36i4pxhr said:
You will be talking 20 to 30 grand for an equivalent new engine upgrade. Add that to the buyers asking price and you will see where you will be sometime in the near future.

Good luck. Bargains are generally not.
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I have good news! The 2018 Honda 40 hp outboards are $6,360 a piece on defender.com. I don't know if new controls would be needed or if you could re-use the older generation Honda controls. At least better than 20-30 grand. That's still a significant expense, but you can factor that into your cheap price and decide if its a good deal or not.
 
I"m sticking with my low end number of 20 grand by the time taxes are paid, shipping is covered, pro shop installation is done, maybe new controls. Also, I'd be upgrading to 50's rather than 40's. I don't know what the price effect is going from 40's to 50's but whatever the price difference, the extra 10 hp is worth it. In any case, there is a big chunk of extra money on the horizon when looking at 2500 hour twins. A cheaper bet might be to go to a single 100 or 115. But that isn't the point of the original poster. I think he has the message from the brats.
 
Full disclosure, I don't run Honda, but I DO RUN TWINS 8)

My twin yamis are 40's. If/when I was repowering, I would seriously look at going up to 50's. The 40's are enough power for 99.9% of everything but, with 50's, they would run a bit more prop, so could run at slightly lower RPM so easier on the power plants, maybe slightly quieter, (Though the Yami's had the trophy for being the quietest back when these went on), and would probably be able to get fuel flow info to the plotter with new EFI outboards.

Twins, :thup :thup 50 :thup

Love my twins,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I run 1999 twin Honda 40’s that had 250 hours on them when I bought the boat in Jan 2003. They now are pushing 2200 hours & running every bit as well as in 2003. I take good care of them & the majority of the hours are on one motor at displacement speed, but really unknown how long they will last. I do know there is still no hesitation on my part to head to the remotest parts of SE Alaska with them. I hear of others with motor problems having much lower hours, so believe some have defects from new & others poorly maintained. Still, the less hours the better, but how they have been run & cared for to a point, the most important in valuation.

Unless there has been a change in the newer Honda motors, I’m not so sure going to the 50 hp much of a improvement. Past specs said, the increased hp came from rpm at over 5000 with torque being the same in both 40 & 50 hp. I don’t run over 5000 rpm except to check WOT, so don’t see an advantage, but maybe C-Hawk, Roger can enlighten me to the advantage of the 50 hp. If there really is, then my present choice for replacement of the Honda 40, would be the Suzuki 60 hp. The new Suzuki 40, 50 & 60 hp are all the same cc & weigh in at 229 lbs, which is just 13 lbs heavier than the Honda 40 or 50 & the price favorable.

Jay
 
At the Powell River CBGT there was a fellow there who was running twins, 40's and said he learned of a way to make the 40's into 50's and it was a very easy tweak. Nothing like bore and stroke, but an easy do job. He had done that on his and had the new power with lower RPM and liked the result.

Sorry I don't have the names right now.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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EQ Marine is in the process of repowering my 22 with twin Tohatsu 50s. Motors, controls, gauges and new cable steering, for about $14.5K.
 
hardee":14lpydkn said:
At the Powell River CBGT there was a fellow there who was running twins, 40's and said he learned of a way to make the 40's into 50's and it was a very easy tweak. Nothing like bore and stroke, but an easy do job. He had done that on his and had the new power with lower RPM and liked the result.

Sorry I don't have the names right now.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I saw this quote in a article at boats.com. “The BF40 and BF50 are physically identical. The 10-horsepower difference is accomplished within the engine's computer, which simply adjusts timing and fuel delivery to degrade the 40's output. The specs say the 40 makes peak power at 5500 rpm, while the 50 peaks at 5750. The 50 also has a WOT rpm range of 5500 to 6000, compared to 5000 to 6000 for the 40. This means that any power difference is at the top of the rpm range. So unless you spend a lot of time at full-throttle, you might be smart to save some money and buy the less-expensive BF40 instead of the BF50”, which is sImilar to several other articles, I’ve read in the past, though it didn’t say anything about the torque, where as the others, said they were the same. This article was written after Honda came out with EFI & it’s advertised low end torque increase in both the 40 & 50 hp motors. Complicating trying to find actual usable lower rpm increased power data in the 50 over the 40 is Honda not publishing any torque numbers through the rpm range on either motor & I also can’t find it anywhere else.

If what this quote & the other articles I’ve read are true, then I think, perhaps the increase in power is in reality, good only increasing the speed in the very upper rpm range & not for getting on plane quicker or with a heavier load or trying to stay on the back of a wave in nasty sea conditions, which are the areas, I would find the increase in power most useful.

I would prefer the quote above & the other information I’ve read, that echos it to be wrong, as it sure would be nice to have that extra power, throughout the rpm range in a replacement motor of the same weight or even better a quick & easy adjustment on the present motor, as you referenced. I sure would like to see someone share, the evidence of numbers demonstrating the power increase through lower to medium rpm.

Jay
 
I don't know where I got it, or if I just made it up, but I have always compared the life expectancy of equipment with hour meters to the more relatable experience of cars with odometers, figuring 50 miles per hour.

Using that reasoning an outboard with 2500 hours would compare to a car engine with 125,000 miles. Not worn out if well maintained, but one could expect there are parts that will need to be repaired or replaced.
 
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