Trailer tire wear/alignment, etc. questions.

[Sunbeam]

Hi folks,

I'm starting this thread to ask some questions about trailer tire wear and possible measures to take to correct things (if necessary). As background, I read these two threads (the first one is especially good), but I still have a couple of questions and decided to start a new thread for this time.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... highlight=

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... highlight=

I have a galvanized, tandem-axle trailer for my C-Dory 22. It tows beautifully, and I tow it with appropriate tongue weight (about 7.5%), and it is level fore-and-aft when I am towing. It's within weight ratings on trailer and tires. I have radial tires. I keep a close eye on the pressure when towing, and inflate them according to the load weight. I weigh the whole kit-and-caboodle pretty oten, just to keep tabs on things. IR thermometer shows no excessive heat on bearings or tires when running.

Right now I have around 17,000 miles on the trailer tires and they are around 3.5 years old. I am planning to replace them soon (age), and so I was giving them a close look-over. I noticed that one tire (right rear) has worn more than the others - on its outside edge. Here are some photos showing each tire, with notes. Then my questions below that.

Going around counter-clockwise from left/front:

Left front:


Left rear:


Right rear (the "bad" one):


Right front:


So my first question is how bad is this in "real life." What I mean is, obviously the right rear is compromised and I am getting all new tires anyway, but is this "normal" on a trailer? I mean, does one just have to "settle" because trailers are not that precise? Or is this something a particular person (me) should have corrected?

I will be taking the measurements suggested in the first linked thread tomorrow when I am at the boat, so I will add that information then (but posting now in case there is something else I should check that you all will recommend).

It was suggested that an outside wear like this may indicate a camber problem, but the someone else asked how do you even adjust camber on a trailer and there were no more postings to the thread. So.... can you adjust camber on these?

A little more information on the trailer:

The axles are sprung (not torsion). The springs on each side (forward and aft springs) ride together on a "carriage" that is all one piece. So there is the one-piece "carriage" for each side of the trailer. Then the axles are attached to the springs with U-bolts in about the center of the springs' downward arc. In addition to taking measurements tomorrow, I will check to make sure nothing has moved (I should be able to tell by marks/dirt/etc.).

I'd like to get this figured out before I start in on my four new tires.

Thank you,
Sunbeam

 

[digger]

See if the axles are parallel to each other. I suspect that the right side of the pair is slightly closer together than the left . That could be making the tire on the right rear want to turn left, with the result being that the tire is pulling the tire inward, slightly rolling the tire sideways causing the tire to scrub the outside edge.

 

[digger]

See if the axles are parallel to each other. I suspect that the right side of the pair is slightly closer together than the left . That could be making the tire on the right rear want to turn left, with the result being that the tire is pulling the tire inward, slightly rolling the tire sideways causing the tire to scrub the outside edge.

 

[journey on]

If you got 17,500 miles out of those tyres, enjoy it. Those worn edges might be from loading, slightly misaligned axles or road camber. Don't worry is the only advice I have.

Boris

 

[jbdba01]

If you got 17,500 miles out of those tyres, enjoy it. Those worn edges might be from loading, slightly misaligned axles or road camber. Don't worry is the only advice I have.

Boris

X2...I never get that many miles out of mine.

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks for the advice so far. Digger, I will measure the axles tomorrow when I'm at the boat - nice to have something to "look for."

Sounds like 17,000 miles is decent, but I still would prefer that one tire not wear so oddly (and obviously it started some miles ago). Since I'm getting new tires, maybe I can keep it from happening to the new ones. I'll check things out, but know there is likely nothing horribly awry.

Any more input: I'm all ears!

PS: Side rant: In my tires of choice, I've called like five places that stock them, had them look at the date codes, and they are already over a year old. That's a huge percentage of the tire life! The weird thing is that when one of the places got in a new truckload, they were ALSO over a year old (right from China apparently). I can live with changing them every three years or so, but gee, let's not start with them 33.3% gone due to age!

I found one place that MAY be able to get me a set of four that are six months old...

Trailer tires.... :cry I'd happily pay more for a really good set, but they don't really seem to exist (at least not in my size).

Okay, just had to get that out of my system.

 

[Montana Kev]

Sunbeam, I just replaced the two tires on my single axle load rite trailer due to dry rot/age. The tires only had an estimated 3000 miles on them but they were probably 10 years old. The wear was on the outside identical to your 3rd tire photo, the one with the most wear. It will be interesting to see what the experts here advise.

 

[Sunbeam]

Nice to know that any information gleaned may be able to help you as well :thup

 

[lloyds]

I had one on my tandem axle trailer that did the same thing, without a lot of miles, maybe 8 - 10 thousand. Wish I knew why. Can't find anything wrong.

 

[Aurelia]

If alignment is good, I was going to point to road camber for the relatively higher wear on the outer edges. More so on the right if you are a slow lane cruiser most of the time. I have seen this with travel trailers but it should be minor and that looks to be the case here.

Greg

 

[Sunbeam]

If alignment is good, I was going to point to road camber for the relatively higher wear on the outer edges. More so on the right if you are a slow lane cruiser most of the time.

I definitely favor the right lane when towing. Basically only move to the left to pass or sometimes to the center when going through an area with a lot of off/on traffic.

Although if it were from road camber, then wouldn't you would think it would be on both right side tires, when instead, the right front has only slight wear, but it's actually on the INSIDE of the tire.

As mentioned above, I'll measure things tomorrow and report back (but of course we can still talk about it in the meantime).

 

[hardee]

Sunbeam,

I can't help you with the tire wear. I missed that part of the Holiday Inn experience, but I did go check mine and they look even so far, 2 seasons. I have a friend who decided to quit messing with ?? trailer tires from China and put truck tires on his trailer. Weight load equivalents, better sidewalls and better mileage. Might be an option. I know you put on a lot of miles compared to some of us.

One thought, You have a tandem trailer, are you in a place where you are backing around tight corners, especially to the right, or forward sharp to the left? That would scrub that Right rear on the outside, but I would expect it to be even wear on all, though.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Sunbeam]

I did go check mine and they look even so far, 2 seasons.

Just curious: Any idea of the mileage?

I have a friend who decided to quit messing with ?? trailer tires from China and put truck tires on his trailer. Weight load equivalents, better sidewalls and better mileage. Might be an option.

I think that might not be an option for me due to 13" wheels. If I ever replace the trailer, I'd go 14" wheels for the better tire selection, but this one tows so nicely (and I have it all fixed up with upgraded parts) that I'm not motivated to do that too soon - I mean, unless there is some additional compelling reason.

One thought, You have a tandem trailer, are you in a place where you are backing around tight corners, especially to the right, or forward sharp to the left? That would scrub that Right rear on the outside, but I would expect it to be even wear on all, though.

I don't think so, basically because I have no "regular same place" that I back it into all the time. So although of course I back and turn, it's varied.

Now I can't wait to get to the trailer and do some measuring! Tomorrow...

 

[Aurelia]

I was reading "outside" of the tire. In general many of the variables like turning directions and camber even out some over time but if you travel similar roads a similar way, that is an element of consistency and consistency can lead to wear patterns. We have all seen sections of highway with grooves worn into the lanes. What if you drove those lanes regularly and had a preferred lane position that put you to the outside of that lane. Could your tires ride the grooves in a way that would wear them faster in some sections and slower in others? Yep. Do any driving variables of this type play into your travels with the boat trailer?

Assuming correct axle alignment of course.

I would not discount the possibility of tire specific build issues if you see wear that can not be related to logical wear factors. I am constantly thinking about tire wear on my two wheeler but there are other factors at play there. We think trailers go through tires.... Motorcycles are even worse. Imagine a set only lasting a week or month.

Greg

 

[Sunbeam]

I don't tend to drive any roads consistently - just because I'm out and about and take varying routes. But, I do appreciate your analytical input, as always :thup

Now I'm just primed to get over there and measure!

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

I'd go 14" wheels for the better tire selection

Sunbeam, not sure where you are but around here most trailer tire shops will sell you tires pre mounted on rims for less than it would cost you to buy, mount and balance tires on your old rims. You should be able to get 14' rims with the same bolt pattern as the 13' ones. The larger tires will also save a bit of wear and tear on your bearings on a trip as they will go the same distance turning less times and slower. Only downside you might have to back down the ramp a few inches more to launch.

Regards, Rob

 

[Sunbeam]

Hi Rob,
I hoped for that when I bought the trailer, because Magic Tilt made the same frame in a 14" tire model. I actually bought a 14" tire on a rim (because even though people told me it wouldn't work, I had to see for myself). The problem is that they won't fit, physically. The springs are not long enough, the fenders aren't large enough, and the "carriage" that the springs ride on is too short.

Magic Tilt does sell all the parts to convert, but it would be quite expensive. At that point I'd probably get a new trailer. And except for the aggravation buying tires, the 13-ers are within specs for my load, and the trailer tows beautifully, so it seems like kind of a waste.

Of course if I did ever buy a new trailer, then I'd get 14" wheels from the get-go.

 

[thataway]

There was a thread I started a few years back because of excessive wear after about 6,000 miles. Tandem axle C Dory 25 trailer--may have been marginal in weight capacity. I switched to radial tires, put on a weight distribution hitch, and made sure that the trailer was absolutely level. The problem was solved--and the boat was sold with about 15,000 more miles on the trailer--and little wear.

The "new" C Dory trailer from last year, had the new tires/new rim for $70 a wheell. I don't remember the age of the tires, but I believe that they were less than a year old. There is more wear on the right rear tire, than on other tires. In the future, I will make sure that the trailer is level, and will rotate the tires (Which I suggest that you do). I will also buy radial tires next time around. There is no reason to change out 3.5 year old tires, unless there is some defect in the tires. 5 to 6 years is the usual replacement age for large RV's. Trailer tires, if show bad side wall checking, or deterioration.

Last year, I got new RV tires thru the Mechlin program, and they were about 3 weeks old.

 

[bcassal]

I have had similar issues with my EZloader tandem trailer. I have had similar edge wear and have had no satisfaction from trailer and/or alignments shops. They are befuddled when asked about an alignment. As I understand there is no camber adjustment.
I talked with EZloader about it and they say the axles must be equidistant from the rear corners of the trailer frame. Equidistant from the ball seems more intuitive.
I have 3/16 inch difference in the distance between the axles measured at the hubs. They tell me I either have a bent axle (torsion $600) or it (hopefully) has been knocked out of position. I certainly have crashed a curb or two over the years.
I have been meaning to rehab this trailer for some months now. I have purchased Kodiak disc brakes and a new actuator as well all the other brake parts, but this project is on indefinite hold as I am out of commission for awhile. Once I have the boat off the trailer and wheels off, I think the axle situation will become obvious.
I'll be following this thread and greatly interested in see what developed.

Bruce
Carpy

.

 

[Sunbeam]

Interesting info, all. The threads really are so much more useful and interesting when more people chip in!

I do have radials, and tow with the trailer completely level (yes, I obsessed ). So I'm good there. Sounds like the wear pattern is not completely abnormal (or at least, I'm not the only one with it).

I had this vague idea maybe I should not rotate the radials, but I should look that up, as it now seems like a good idea.

I think it was Jim B here (?) who said that the service people he'd been talking to (these were people who came to help him out when he had trailer tire failures, not people selling tires) said that with the (lack of) quality of trailer tires, "three years was the new six years."

So between that, the wear on the one tire, and the fact that I would like a set of Load Range D's (already converted my spare, but still have C's on the main wheels).... new tires sounded good. On the other hand, I can always use the money for other boat things!

Of course now I'm not sure if I would want to keep trailering on that one tire with the edge wear....

This thread now has me wanting to rush over to the boat and measure I'll try to hold off until tomorrow.

Sunbeam

PS: Carpy, I have never had any trailer brakes but the Kodiaks, but I have been very happy with them. One thing I did was remove the Chinese-made bearings from the kit and take them to a bearing house and get "Made in USA" Timken bearings. I kept the others as spares.

(Not that any country can't make good or bad stuff, but I find a lot of metal and that sort of thing that comes from China does not have good quality control.)