Torqeedo Electric Outboards

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drjohn71a

New member
I saw a small blurb in a magazine about these little outboards, and checked out the site: Torqeedo.com

Their small units are 2-6 horsepower. The smallest two have the Lithium battery on top of the outboard leg and only weigh under 25 pounds, battery and all.

Does anybody have any experience with these rechargeable outboards? I am thinking it might make a great dingy engine, or emergency 'get home' engine.

Do you think the 2 hp unit would handle a 7-8 foot dingy OK?

John
 
John,

I saw these at the Seattle Boat Show. They look like a good product. The props are large compared to other trolling motors. The new battery technology promises a lot more running time for less weight. The battery on the small motor is mounted on the top and is easily removable and relatively lightweight. Without the battery, no one can drive the dingy away.
 
drjohn71a":120tgoxr said:
I saw a small blurb in a magazine about these little outboards, and checked out the site: Torqeedo.com

Their small units are 2-6 horsepower. The smallest two have the Lithium battery on top of the outboard leg and only weigh under 25 pounds, battery and all.

Does anybody have any experience with these rechargeable outboards? I am thinking it might make a great dingy engine, or emergency 'get home' engine.

Do you think the 2 hp unit would handle a 7-8 foot dingy OK?

John
Click to expand...


John--- I just spent several hours on the Torgeedo web site checking out these motors. Articles in several sailboat magazines rated these motors very high in tidal situations with dingy use. The site and articles are well worth checking out. We will mostly likely purchase the Torgeedo 801 Traveler. Its rated at 2 hp with much more thrust than a mechanical 2 hp motor. For this years Alaska trip we already have a Mokai Jet Boat in the process of being shipped to us now. The Makai is a motorized 2 person kayak with a Honda 6 hp motor. Jo-Lee has a very bad shoulder, so we plan on letting her test this Makia out and if she can operate it we will purchasing another. If not we will purchase the Torgeeda motor and bring both the dingy and Kayak with us.

At this point I think a Torgeedo motor would work out very good for you, but I also would appreciate input from the more experienced before making a final determination for us.

Jay
 
The question for me would be the range--they give a rowing dinghy weight up to 200 lbs at 3 kil/hr as 18 kilometers. 3 km/hr is about 1.5 knots--not very fast! So what is the range at max speed (or about 3 knots?). Also a rowing dinghy is probably more effecient hull than an infltabable. Also remember the caution I have made with underpowered engines on inflatables--and wind. (All of this relates to the 400, which apparently is the built in battery)

How long to chage the battery?

And--how much the cost. As I noted we do use a 43 lb thrust trolling motor on a 12 foot John boat--max speed a little over 3 knots, and we get several hours with two golf cart batteries. (Realize that this electic motor is susposed to be twice as effecient as a regular trolling motor.

It will be interesting to see how it works out.
 
Bob

Different statements were made in several articles. Best I could tell between 4 and 5 hrs for battery charging with the 800.

On the Torgeeda's site 2007 catalog they covered different ranges with varying boat types. Best I could tell a 8' inflatable with the 800 motor would have a range of slightly over 10 miles at 3.5 knots. That would work for us if true. Sure like the silent running idea. In comparison the Makia I described can go 80+ miles on 3 gal of gas and will do 15 mph. The distance, speed and ability to go up fast glacial rivers is why the Makai was 1st on our list but also like the idea of moving slowly along shores in inner bays with no other noise than what the wilds provide.

Jay
 
We can get a rough estimate of time vs. battery capacity by calculation.

1HP = 0.746KW
80HP = 59.7KW
1 of their Li batteries weighs 55lbs and full charged provides 2,685 W-hours = 2.685KW-hours.
Assuming 100% efficiency and 50% discharge a 55lb battery will provide 2.685KW-hrs/59.7KW = 0.0449 hours of use. To get a full hour of use at full HP we need 22.2 batteries and for 3 hours of use we'd need about 67 batteries (weighing 3667lbs).

In practice, one probably wouldn't use the engine at full throttle all the time.

We can also figure things starting at some max battery weight. E.g. supposed we were willing to load the boat with 1000lbs of batteries or about 18 of their Li batteries. This would give us a max capacity of 48.33KW-hrs or 24.165KW-hrs at 50% battery drain. That is 32.4HP-hours. E.g. I could run at 32.4HP for 1 hour or 16.2 hp for 2 hours or 8.1HP for 4 hours, or 4.05 HP for 8 hours. So for trolling or displacement speed cruising, it might be useful but I can't see much use at higher speeds without carrying an inordinate amount of weight in batteries.

Someone (Joe?) check my math above and tell me if I'm wrong (either due to math error or other assumptions).
 
rogerbum":10dinp3t said:
We can get a rough estimate of time vs. battery capacity by calculation.

1HP = 0.746KW
80HP = 59.7KW
1 of their Li batteries weighs 55lbs and full charged provides 2,685 W-hours = 2.685KW-hours.
Assuming 100% efficiency and 50% discharge a 55lb battery will provide 2.685KW-hrs/59.7KW = 0.0449 hours of use. To get a full hour of use at full HP we need 22.2 batteries and for 3 hours of use we'd need about 67 batteries (weighing 3667lbs).

In practice, one probably wouldn't use the engine at full throttle all the time.

We can also figure things starting at some max battery weight. E.g. supposed we were willing to load the boat with 1000lbs of batteries or about 18 of their Li batteries. This would give us a max capacity of 48.33KW-hrs or 24.165KW-hrs at 50% battery drain. That is 32.4HP-hours. E.g. I could run at 32.4HP for 1 hour or 16.2 hp for 2 hours or 8.1HP for 4 hours, or 4.05 HP for 8 hours. So for trolling or displacement speed cruising, it might be useful but I can't see much use at higher speeds without carrying an inordinate amount of weight in batteries.

Someone (Joe?) check my math above and tell me if I'm wrong (either due to math error or other assumptions).
Click to expand...

Roger-

All looks good to me, except did you ever work in the initial 50% (only) discharge of capacity, or figure it at 100% discharge? (See red lettering above.)

Love this stuff!

The Torquedo might make a better cocktail stirrer than a big outboard!

Looking forward to seeing y'all Seattle!

Joe. :teeth :thup

Margaritaville_in_Apalachia_Ashley_Lynn.jpg
Byrdman's brother mixing it up in Tennessee! (AKA: Margaritaville.)
 
We discussed this motor not long ago. They boats used are very light and very efficient. The lithium ion battery can be 100% discharged, but the recharge is always a major issue for any battery powered motor--especially this one!
 
Sea Wolf":2gi2r60u said:
rogerbum":2gi2r60u said:
We can get a rough estimate of time vs. battery capacity by calculation.

1HP = 0.746KW
80HP = 59.7KW
1 of their Li batteries weighs 55lbs and full charged provides 2,685 W-hours = 2.685KW-hours.
Assuming 100% efficiency and 50% discharge a 55lb battery will provide 2.685KW-hrs/59.7KW = 0.0449 hours of use. To get a full hour of use at full HP we need 22.2 batteries and for 3 hours of use we'd need about 67 batteries (weighing 3667lbs).

In practice, one probably wouldn't use the engine at full throttle all the time.

We can also figure things starting at some max battery weight. E.g. supposed we were willing to load the boat with 1000lbs of batteries or about 18 of their Li batteries. This would give us a max capacity of 48.33KW-hrs or 24.165KW-hrs at 50% battery drain. That is 32.4HP-hours. E.g. I could run at 32.4HP for 1 hour or 16.2 hp for 2 hours or 8.1HP for 4 hours, or 4.05 HP for 8 hours. So for trolling or displacement speed cruising, it might be useful but I can't see much use at higher speeds without carrying an inordinate amount of weight in batteries.

Someone (Joe?) check my math above and tell me if I'm wrong (either due to math error or other assumptions).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Roger-

All looks good to me, except did you ever work in the initial 50% (only) discharge of capacity, or figure it at 100% discharge? (See red lettering above.)

Love this stuff!

The Torquedo might make a better cocktail stirrer than a big outboard!

Looking forward to seeing y'all Seattle!

Joe. :teeth :thup

Joe,

I worked worked the 50% discharge in for the second half of the calculations but not the first part. I knew I had a mistake in there someplace as my cross checking didn't quite pan out. Thanks for catching that.
 
Hi Roger;
I think I missed something on the capability of the power useage.

1 HP= 0.746KW, or 746W

1 Li Battery = 2.685 KWH at full charge

(To what level do we declare it at non-functional, 10.6VDC and full load?)

1 Li Battery at 50% = 1.342KWH

If I were to use a load of 1HP from this battery;
1.342KWH/.746KW= 1.789H or ~1hr & 48min run time.

If I were to use 2 HP from the same battery, my run time would be halfed, less internal/heat loss, or to only ~54minutes.

I sense I missed something along the way in the application of the 80HP relationship in a dinge.

Art
 
Thanks Roger.

Have a Merry Christmas and may you and your family have a healthy, prosperious and happy new year.

Ahah, that goes for all those reading this thread.

Art
 
This type of battery has several advantages over a flooded cell.

1/ it will withstand a deeper discharge.

2/ it can be charged at a higher amperage.

3/ it recharges faster.

I am concidering this type for my off grid system when the time comes to replace my bank. They are a lot more money, but the savings in diesel fuel and gen. hours might make it an attractive option.

Regards, Rob
 
The problem is that currently a commercial Li Ion battery the size of a grip 24 battery (big enough to start a typical C Dory outboard, but smaller than I prefer) is $1,000, vs somewhere in the $45 to $60 range.

I have a friend who was going to put the Li ion battery in his custom built RV--and decided against it even in light of the lighter weight and other advantages noted by Rob.

If you build you own batteries, (buying the individual cells) you can do it considerably cheaper, but still about 10X the cost of a flooded lead acid.

There is one RVer who has had Lithium ion batteries installed in his RV for 19 months. He does not talk about costs, but I think there was a "deal" for the publicity etc since these were the first put in. They were torn down at 11 months, and each cell voltage measured--checked out within a few millivolts and "OK". They boondocks about 30% of the time. AGMs were lasting about 1.8 year--3 cycles a day (but I suspect were not full recharged with the Auto start on the generator)). He did go 9 days at a time without hooking up to power--and the his total use per day is about 560 amp hours--with 400 amp hour house bank batteries. He has solar panels to supplement the generator. Genset run time was about 4.5 hours a day just for battery charging (also carried the load--phantom load was 23 amps most of the day, because of inverter running 110 volt refer). Other loads were lights and TV.

Using commercial Li Ion batteries the 400 amps would be $4,000. You can buy 4 golf carts for about $300, but in reality the golf carts will only have about half the capacity--about twice the weight.

When will the li ion be at a practical cost? (lets say the same as a comparable AGM of twice the capacity?)
 
Sea Wolf":kbzg0r9j said:
Jay-

The specs say the battery operates from about 25 to 29 volts, with a maximum discharge voltage of 21 volts, so I don't think so.

Plus, you'd need their special charger with it's control circuits to charge the battery right.

See:

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-out ... dimensions

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

Actually an inverter would probably work just fine, that way you can keep the battery topped off while under way.
 
I think that using a Honda generator would be better than the alternator on the outboard--of course depending on the outboard. Some of the older 70 and 90 hp outboards do not have very large alternators, and probably would not keep up with the current draw of the charger (the quick charge of the battery is @100 amps--29 volts)

I have heard that the 80 hp outboard is going to use a higher voltage battery set.

Interesting on the battery web site, that it rates that battery for only 800 100% discharge cycles--I am sure it is a not more if you go to only 60% discharge. So....maybe you really do have to avoid full discharge if you want to keep this type of battery economical.

With more electric cars/hybrids, battery costs will certainly come down--and better batteries will be designed.
 
The answer to the question is yes. I have the Travel 1003 and regularly charge it on the water with a 12 volt connection. From reading between the lines of much of the info out there about the Torqeedo, it leads me to following conclusion. It seems that all the charging electronics is in the batteries. So all you need is a proper polarity DC Source. For instance the Torqeedo solar panel is 44 volts. And this item, a 12 volt charging cable, is regularly offered on eBay by ePower Marine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12volt-Exte..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item41715c2f86&vxp=mtr This 12V ePower charger will charge a spare battery or can even be used while using the Torqeedo to extend the battery life. One more link. http://thetorqeedoshop.com.au/range-extension-options-for-torqeedo-1003-and-ultralight/#more-1648 The aussies seem to be more involved in exploring electric propulsion.

I have been using the Torqeedo on my Windrider trimaran, but will soon using on my C-Dory 22. I highly recommend ePowerMarine, if you are looking into Torqeedos. Captain Todd is very knowledgeable about all electric boat power issues. It is good to talk with someone who is technically proficient.

Scott
 
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