Tongue weight

F

flapbreaker

New member
I read the first thread in this topic area regarding tongue weight but still have question.

I took my boat by a state operated truck scale to get an idea of her weight. I put both axle's on the scale and it read 3950 lbs. I was actually surprised since I didn't have much fuel/water or gear but I guess that's what she weighs. Then and put just the jack wheel on the scale and came up with 550 lbs :shock: That's quite a tongue weight. Far more than the recommended 5-7% I've seen mentioned. So I moved the winch arm back 2 inches while the boat was off the trailer. When I re-weighed I got the exact same weight's for both the axle weight and tongue weight :?: I guess I don't understand how the tongue weight didn't change at all?

Basically I need to level the trailer since it's tandem axle. I could simply get a 2 inch higher hitch but if the tongue weight is that far off I should fix that first and then see if I need the hitch height/ new rear shocks ect...

What do you guys make of this? Should I try and move the axle's forward?

Boat_9_24_2005_023.jpg
 
It seems odd that the tounge weight didn't change when you moved the winch back. If'n I where you, I'd go with the air shocks. When you add fuel and gear that's going to want to lever some of the weight off the tounge.....sure is a nice looking boat
 
Flapbreaker,
Did you weigh at the same scale? Maybe they round off to the nearest hundred pounds? It could get a little expensive to keep adjusting and paying at the truck stop. You could check it at home with a lever and bath scale setup. Something is fishy, if you moved it back two inches it had to change. As you move it back be careful you don't leave the transom unsupported by bunks or rollers. I once had to move an axle to adjust tongue weight. It is a little complicated with brake lines and alignment to worry about. Much easier if you can do it with moving the winch stand.
 
CAVU,

I did use the same scale's. Fortunately in oregon the scales are free. I think the scale changes by 50 pounds since it was 550.

The other question I have is this.... Does weight on the wheel jack really equal the tongue weight?

I tried using the bathroom scale but it gave me an error weight. I guess I better not get to 550 lbs LOL
 
Hello

If it doesn't sway leave it alone unless it's way off. The rv boards seem's to recommend 10-15% of total weight. On the bathroom scale thing you have to use a lever arm and multiply the results.
Try this link
http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/tongueweight.html

I have found it quite accurate.

I believe duel axle torsion trailers give odd results depending on the jacked up height loading each axle. Old style spring duels had a weight transfer device between the axles.

Tongue heavy is not always a bad thing as long as it doesn't violate the receiver's rating.

Wade
 
These scales are designed to be weighing hundreds of thousands of pounds. The accuracy of these scales is really decreased when you get down into the 5000 lb. range. Most measuring instruments are designed to work in the 20 to 80 percent range of the total range of the scale.

Also, weighing your boat/trailer rig needs to be a stand-alone measurement, independent of being hooked up to the tow vehicle.

In my very humble opinion, the best way you can determine your boat's total weight is to use the manufacturer's specs., and the trailer manufacturer's specs. They know their weights, since they have to pay shipping on the basis of those weights.

A good round number for a 22' Cruiser is around 4200#, give or take, depending on loading equipment. Just add up C-Dory specified weights, the trailer manufacturer's weight, the engine manufacturers weights, the do a guesstimate on anchors, fuel, water, and other ancillary stuff, and you will come up with a much more accurate weight than any truck scale can give you.

In my estimation, if your tongue weight is in the 500# range, you are just fine. If your tow vehicle is tail-dragging, and your boat trailer is front-dragging, you need to shift your axles forward.

A way to see how to measure your tongue weight is HERE. Seems to work, since it comes fairly close to the theoretical calculations.

FWIW,

Ken
 
"When you weith the toung make sure it is at the level you tow at. Also try raising it a couple inches and see what that does for you. The toung weight on my Angler is right at 500# and I was going to move the axel but as it is it dosen't fish tail or give me grief anymore so I have left it where it is. My new truck sure handles it better than my last rig did adn i thought my last rig did just fine.
 
I just measured the tongue weight, what i did was place the trailer jack wheel directly on the bathroom scale. The scale is rated for 290#. and when i weighed the trailer/boat it went around once and stopped at 60# so i estimate the tongue weight is around 350#. The trailer was level as best i could get it in my gravel driveay.Does the weight seem a little on the light side. ?? Tug
 
If it tows well, leave it alone.

The weight guidelines are just that- guidelines. The goal of adjusting tongue weight is to get the trailer to tow straight and true and not have sway issues.

Some guys get all wrapped up in getting to a percentage number, and lose sight of what the real goal is.

plus tongue weight will chnage based on fuel level in the boat (tanks are all the way aft) load of gear and other variables.

If torsion axle trailer, adjust hitch height to get the trailer level, and if it tows well, you're good to go.
 
Another consideration on tongue weight other than sway is the surge brake action. When my boat was delivered I noticed the brakes didn't actuate smoothly, more like a jerking action, all or none. A year later I weighed my boat and trailer. Boat with tongue was 7400 lbs (full gas, 1/2 water, raft, raft motor, ice chest, anchors, etc). Tongue was 850 lbs!

I moved both axles forward (big job) 17", now my tongue weight is 450 lbs at its lightest (about 6% of total weight, nearly empty fuel tank, no raft up front, no ice chest). My gas tank is forward of the axles' center of effort, so as I fill with fuel it makes the tongue heavier. So on a 22, you must consider this, fill the tanks full and anything else that will add weight aft before messing with tongue weight.

My rig tracks excellently, which I was hoping for. Even in extreme avoidance maneuvers, which I've had a few, the boat returns quickly to center. I use load stabilizing bars (tongue weight distributing, not anti-sway bars). Brakes are smooth actuating now.
 
The other question I have is this.... Does weight on the wheel jack really equal the tongue weight?


I did not see this answered. The tongue weight is at the ball socket the wheel jack is closer to the axles therefore has a shorter lever arm and will have a heaver load then at the ball socket.
Click to expand...
 
Basically I need to level the trailer since it's tandem axle. I could simply get a 2 inch higher hitch but if the tongue weight is that far off I should fix that first and then see if I need the hitch height/ new rear shocks ect...

Several years ago I sold a 20' North River to a fellow in Reno. The outside temperature was pushing 100 degrees that day. When we hooked it on to his truck it was low in the front. I told him he should go up and purchase a new adjusted ball so as to level the trailer out. He said it was no problem and off he went. Before he left for the Reno I gave every wheel a shot of grease. He burnt off a wheel bearing just outside of Reno. Cost him a new axel and a tow home. The bearings had just been replaced. The bottom line is make sure your boat sits level putting equal weight on both axels. IMHO.

I have shared this story with several boat dealers over the years and all of them told me I was dead on telling him that.


H :wink:
 
Agree with the level of trailer--our problem became an issue in tire wear on the 25 trailer. Once leveled (and WD hitch) no wear in over 8000 miles. (Previously tires shot in less than 6,000 miles).

I also agree with Ken's assessment of the scales. The ones I have used are often used to weigh 80,000 trucks (the commercial limit)--they are just not that sensitive for tongue weight. There may be smaller commercial (like farm scales) which are better at this.

A 10% or even 15% tongue weight is fine, as long as your truck is rated for that.
 
I have pulled a few trailers, over a few miles, and I would be pretty uncomfortable with a tongue weight of only 5-6% with a trailer weight equal to a 22 load. Single or tandem, I would think that is on the light side, and you could be setting yourself up for some serious swinging. 10% is good, and likely to stay straight behind you. If the trailer sits level, 15% is OK if your tow rig is qualified for the weight.

Over the road, a tandem will pull straighter and hobby horse less, (rock up and down at the tongue), but for backing and tight maneuvering, a single axel will be easier, and wear less on the tires, probably ride higher with more axel ground clearance.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_181.thumb.jpg
 
If you are pulling a tandem axle trailer getting your trailer tongue level with the boat and truck loaded as you normally would can't be over emphasized. It effects tire wear braking and handling. If you are weighing on a truck scale which have three different segments for weighing front axle drive wheels and trailer tandem axles on large trucks. You have make sure the truck and trailer are on different segments of the scale. Note the trucks individual weight on the slip. Then remove the trailer and just weight the truck on the same segment of the scale. The weight difference in the trucks weight is the tongue weight. If you have a half ton pickup with 500 pounds of gear in the bed you don't want 1000 pounds of tongue weight. Excess weight on your rear axle takes weight off the steering axle. When it gets wet or slippery you want the weight distributed somewhat evenly for all reasons. Steering, braking, tire wear. I always have checked how trailers pull by towing at a range of speeds up to 80 mph for a short time to make sure the rig stays rock steady. If not you need to make adjustments. I have always run radials tires once the may pops that boat trailers are supplied with wear out. They ride softer wear better and don't transmit the effects of hitting bumps quite as much to the truck. Having tires spin balanced is not a bad idea either.Balancing is a must if you are towing for any real distance. I would also do some swerving while no one is around to make sure you have a stable rig because sooner or later you will need to make an evasive manuver no sense getting any surprises later on in your trailering career.
D.D.
 
Back
Top