TOMCATS: So, whatcha do . . .

We have decided to go with a 8500 BTU roof mounted A/C for our boat, similar to Bob Austin's setup. I was on "Thataway" a couple of weeks ago; the outside temp was around 90 and the cabin was nice and cool. As Bob has noted, this unit runs just fine with a 2 KW portable Honda generator (eu 2000).

Two questions:

1. Any thoughts on how best to secure and store the generator while under way?

2. Any suggestions on how best to secure it to the swimstep during use and also protect it from saltwater spray?

Pictures will be greatly appreciated!
 
Alok-

If I were to use a generator in a salt water environmenmt, as especially underway, here's what I'd do:

First, I'd find a very large cooler (or build a box) large enough to completely house the generator with room around it for air circulation.

I'd bolt the box down to the floor or transom where it was for the most part out of salt spray and easy to pull start the generator.

I'd cut two round holes in the box large enough for air scoops (vent intakes), the kind that look like 90 degree elbows.* I'd mount these through the box with consideration to the air circulation requirments of the generator, turning the scoops downward to not take in water spray, and putting in-line blowers (engine compartment tubular jobs) behind them.

Then I figure out where to put the air outlets (same scoops) and face them backward from the spray sources as well.

Then I'd secure the generator inside the cooler/box with eyelets and bungee cords to permit easy removal for servicing.

Next, I'd wire the generator's 12-v output circuit to the fans with an easily disconnected plug fitting.

Then I'd add a hasp and stainless paddock for security.

I wpould also add a green or red pilot light on the front of the box to indicate "generator on" status to be able to monitor whether it's running over the noise of the main motor at speed. This could be wired to an indicator light at the helm if desired, of it the box was not visible from the helm.

Will think about this some more and get back to you if further developments occur.

I understand Glacier Bay makes a box for use on the swimstep of one of their mid-20 ft models. You should be able to Google it up.

* The vent scoops are pretty $$$! You could use 4-5-6" PVC pipe fittings instead for a lot le$$!

Joe.
 
Joe:

Thanks. Some good ideas there.

I do not intend to use the generator while under way, only when the vessel is anchored and the engines are off (and the waters are calm!). That simplifies some of the issues (my post was not clear on this).

I do like the idea of using a cooler or an ice chest as the container for the generator- waterproof inside and out, solid construction, easily obtainable. If the box is reasonably snug, one could secure the generator inside the chest by using a couple of wooden wedges (pointy sides down) that could be dropped in from above on each side. Maybe the wood could have a rubber type material attached to the side that contacts the generator so it will not mar the finish and also provide a little "give".

The intake and exhaust scoops will be easy enough to make with some PVC pipe. The ice chest lid could also be propped open and the opening protected from spray with an overhanging skirt...maybe a fan can be avoided (keeping it simple).

If the exhaust is freely vented, then overheating inside the box should not be a problem...

Thanks- you' ve got me going now. Keep the ideas coming!
 
Joe

Could use a little bit more information on the "inline blowers". Are you actually talking about wiring in blowers to circulate air through the box? and would the generator power them, or would you have to run a 12v circuit to the box?
 
dtol":1b4sbk81 said:
Joe

Could use a little bit more information on the "inline blowers". Are you actually talking about wiring in blowers to circulate air through the box? and would the generator power them, or would you have to run a 12v circuit to the box?
Click to expand...

dtol-

Here's LINK to one of several that might work.

Will need room inside the box for them, of course.

Yes, they'll FORCE AIR into the box to be sure the generator has plenty of air for it's own cooling system to function.

I think you have to provide that flow once you incase the generator to cut it off from salt water spray and house it securely.

The box should also insulate some of the sound from reaching the cabin!

Will also have to investigate to be sure that there's a temperature/thermal cut off switch inside the generator to save it in case of problems.

Should be a fun project w/o too many technical problems, but one would want to monitor the functioning carefully upon initial start up to make sure the cooling is adequate.

Yes, I'd run them off the 12-volt output side of the generator intended for battery charging. Simpler that way. Don't need 120-V AC motors in that environment!

Of course, one would also have to fashion a cord to take the 120-v AC output of the generator to the boat's shore power system.

As I understand it, you need not connect the ground wire up from one of these generators (which really doesn't have a ground, just a hot wire and a common/return wire) to the boat, and such a ground wire simply can confuse the generator and GFI circuits in the boat. (Someone else may have to clarify this point, but that's how they do it in RV generator use.)

HTH!

More questions?

Joe.
 
Joe: Thanks.

From the owner's manual, the Honda Eu2000i does not appear to have a high-temperature shut-off. The blower sounds like a good idea.
 
dtol and Alok-

I may decide later on to built one of these to house the Honda 1000i I have in order to use it securely on my Sea Ray 265.

Plenty of room at the rear of the cockpit, and would secure it there nicely.

Would have to be moved for engine access below, however, so would consider putting it back on the swimstep, or up on the flying bridge, alternately.

Would be fun building it.

Joe.
 
Hmm, just wrote a post on this and it disappeared into cyper space!
So lets hope I don't duplicate it...

Look at the last "Thataway" gallery where there is a photo of the American Flag holder/stern. In the port swim step, you will see the perfect size milk crate (West Marine--but my second one washed up on the lawn during Ivan). Incidently this only will fit on the port side, because of the geometry of the "plastic loom" containing the wire to the engine and hyraulic lines. I made a top out of 3/4" plywood, Recessed holes by 1/4" for the feet of the generator so it won't vibrate out of place. 1 x 2 cleats on the bottom of the ply keep the platform from slipping off of the swim step. The wood is epoxied and then painted white. The legs are not quite symetrical, so "exahust" is carved in one end. I'll have to put this up in the next day or so. The second crate has a similar board for the 6 gallon gas tank--which attatches to the Honda--runs for several days on this. The gas tank goes opposite the exhaust and in the area where the swim step is.

Both of these are kept aboard by Bungee--they are hoisted from the cockpit vis the Garhauer davit. The engerator fits perfectly in to the 22 1/2" x 16 1/2" utility tub from Wal mart--only probelm is the handle is a little high--so some slight modification with a glue gun and probably some plastic fabric would resolve this issue.

There is no reason for ventillation. The Hondas run fine in the rain--if you really worry, then put a piece of plastic (keep it away from the exhaust, over the railing and motor cowning--to keep the hard rain off. Noise? Not a probelm--they are quieter than diesel gensets on trawlers from the outside and you cannot hear them with the door closed and the AC on--these are no where as noisey as the contractor generator! I have seen the Glacier Bay 2690 Eu 2000 run in the boxes, and there is plenty of ventillation from the internal fans on the genset, so you don't need extra fans--just put pleny of ventiallation--but you really don't keed a box....

So get the tub, the milk crate, and some 3/4" plywood, do the epoxy and boring and shock cord it on, after lifting with the davit!
 
Bob-

I guess I'm just obsessive about electricity, generators, water, and especially salt water, leading me towards a "Bunker Design" for a generator box!

Apparently a simpler design is fine, so I'll be thinking of how much all the added protection is really needed.

A good box, however, can provide the needed security for a boat moored in a marina slip w/o having to dismount the generator and hide it inside the boat.

Sounds like your Tomcat 225 and all your projects are real winners!!!

Joe.
 
A word of concern regarding using coolers.... most coolers are made of thermoplastic, injectable polymers which can melt, distort, or catch fire at relatively low temperatures. I think the milk crates, being thicker and having alot more open, cooling, areas would not be as much a hazard. John
 
Alok--first thing I did this AM was to photograph what I have put together.
Unfortunately I cannot lug it down to the boat without some help, we will be doing this later this week.

Go to the Thataway album. The last pictures show: The generator in the Wal mart Sterilite box--with the two cords I have. Both were standard Lowes cords. One #12 rated 15 amps and one #10 20 amps (the different plug with one lug vertical and one horrizontal) I had to use this cord for the Road Trek, so I had put a regular 15 amp plug in the set making an adaptor. In the very front is the gas can's platform, upside down, showing the lugs on the bottom to keep it centered on the crate.
The generator platform is on the crate. Next are photos of the crate between the engine and loom/steering hoses, plus another of the crate where it would be put for the fuel tank (the six gallon tank needs to be level with the generator).

There is way too much spray and water to put the genset on the back when running at speed. We found considerable stationwaggon effect with one of the back clear plastic aft drapes in place. So I agree that the genset needs to be kept in a box, and covered when under way. I'll work on what to do with the lid of the plastic box. Marie came up with the ideal of fixing a wooden cleat into the inside of the box, so we can run a single line from front and back of the box to secure it to small U brackets fore and aft of the cutout in the combing.

As for salt and Honda Generators--Joe, I have a 800 watt Honda which I purchased in the early 1970's for a trip to Mexico for a back up, running tools etc. That still starts on the second pull and has traveled over 100,000 miles on sailboats--So I don't really worry about the salt air. But I agree that you don't want to dunk or get any direct spray on the generator. If they wear out in 10 years---it will probably still be less than $1000. A marine gas unit will start in the $3000 range installed and last less time.

I certainly agree with the comments Drjohn made--I would not use an ice box or any plastic container to run them in. BUT the shell of the generator is plastic and it does not get hot. I don't know if everyone one is on the same page as to what the Honda EU 2000i is--basically an alternator/inverter. There has to be free air flow for cooling and the exhaust has to exit with some way of being diverted outside of any box it is in--Glacier Bay does this with a fitting very much like the Wallas stove.
I had a 45,000 BTU diesel fired hyraunic heater on the Cal 46 which had a direct fiberglass hull exit for the exhaust.

I'll have to admit my projects are sort of the "quick and dirty" type, but they seem to work well.
 
You are correct, Bob, that the gen housings are "plastic". I think they are polycarbonate or at least of a higher melting point than rotomolded coolers, etc..

I am following this thread closely since I hope to do something like you are with the genset in my TomCat. Not yet having the actual boat at hand makes this kind of figuring out a bit tough, so I appreciate all the thought and work you guys are putting into it. So, just ignore my potshots and keep up the good work! John
 
Check the Thataway thread for other's comments on the tubs. I did find a larger one at Wal Mart, but it looks as if Rubber maid "Action Packer" is better--stronger and smaller. You need 16 1/4" at least height.
 
The Rubbermaid 24 gallon "Action Packer" is definately the best "box" for storing the Honda EU2000i generator. One definate advantage is that the box can be used as a seat or step, with the genset inside.
 
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned, in this generator discussion, the hazards of CO poisoning when the generator is running while at anchor. I recall a case where a family was boating on Lake Powell and were idling along in an --open boat-- with a following breeze. Some of the members of the family died before someone realized what was happening. So I would be very cautious about running a generator under those conditions. I am wondering what precautions those of you who do have gensets are taking to prevent a similar tragedy on your boats.

Warren
 
You are correct that for some reason that CO dangers were not mentioned on this thread--although they have been mentioned a number of times on this list server in some detail. Since several of us are MD's we may have taken the dangers for granted--sorry. The thread sort of evolved to were the generator was stored and placed, not as a primary thread about generators or exhaust in general. The boat's engine exhaust can be as dangerous as the generator, although the danger may be slightly less with an outboard.

Although this is primarly about airplanes, I do believe at all boaters should read this article--even if you don't have a generator--it is one of the best on CO:
http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html It discusses the limits of detectors.

I believe the best detector is the CO experts 2004 model. It allows for low level cummulative tracking--and that is where dangers lie in boaters in pilot house boats and in airplanes.
http://www.coexperts.com/ (incidently it is available for less at other sites)

I won't go into the physiology on this post, unless someone wants that specifically. Just remember that the CO detectors need to be changed every 2 to 4 years--that many household and RV type detectors are not accurate enough (the article explains why they were "dumbed down" because of too many "false" paramedic runs. The other very important fact is that CO is bound into the hemoglobin with a much greater affinity than oxygen. The CO is released very slowly, and even with low levels will increase to a lethal level with time. Unfortunately in my practice I saw some deaths from CO--and a number of people who had chronic CO poisoning--from riding in their cars/in their houses in Los Angeles Basin.

We put the generator on the swim step or engine bracket--NEVER in the cockpit. The exhaust points down wind--and we anchor by the bow, assuring that the bow is pointing into the wind--exception is in river with current opposite the wind. I am not comfortable with the generator on the pilot house roof or foredeck--only outside of the boat. We have several CO detectors--a couple of the cheap NightHawk by Kiddie 4AA battery units, with LCD read out--and the CO experts by our bunk.

As for Lake Powell--the principle deaths were houseboats where the generator exhaust was trapped under the transom and for the most part involved youths who were swimming, slidding into this area with high CO concentrations (up to 7200 PPM). 36 of the nonfatal CO poisonings at Lake Powell occurred inside boat cabins, and eight of these were in boats on which CO detectors had been disabled because of repeated alarms. There the exhaust was pulling into the boats. All houseboats on the lake have been modified. This is well summarized in the CDC MMWR of Dec 15 2000. There was also an epidemic of "Teak surfing" where the people hung onto the swim step and were towed directly--the exhaust quickly overcame these people and they died or drowned. This is specifically outlawed on many lakes. All of the incidences I am aware of with death are where a victum was in the water, on the swim step area or in an aft seat of a cockpit, where very high levels of CO can be found (one instance of 27,000 PPM CO on a ski boat where a young girl sumcubmed in short order from an idling ski boat engine exhaust) I am not familiar with this specific case on Lake Powell, and I would appreciate if you would put the citation on this thread for my records.

Certainly CO is a very dangerous gas, and we should all be aware of it--However the use of a Honda EU2000i is not any more dangerous than built in generators if used properly. There are a number of cases where boats rafted next to a boat with a generator running, and CO overcame the people in the boat without a generator--so be careful where you raft up! Although Diesel engines produce less CO than gas engines, a diesel can still produce liethal levels of CO.
 
Back
Top