TomCat 255 Weight Question

I don't think we'll be buying a trailer any time soon.

Our suv maxes out at 7500lbs gross including hitch and tongue. So, no need to get a trailer until I get a vehicle that can tow the load.

I asked about the weight of your trailers because I was trying to get a sense for your max gross boat weight.

Based on the answers received here, I need not be concerned about that. I'll never get up to Fred's 10,000 lbs. :)

Thanks...
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mike
 
Even without the necessary tow vehicle there are considerable advantages to having a trailer. My Tacoma of course cannot tow the Tomcat on the highway so I borrow a buddies truck twice a year to splash and retrieve. If I need to take the boat out of the water say for any kind of work or to power wash it or such it's extremely convenient to have the trailer. Having to rely on a boat yard to lift the boat out of the water ($400 a pop in MA) then hiring a boat mover with the necessary trailer to move the boat at least twice a year may grow old fast. It would be huge for resale as well as you can imagine even though I plan to keep mine for a loooong time. I personally prioritized the convenience of having a trailer.

Depending upon how far you are from the launch you may be able to tow the Tomcat with your current vehicle. That is to say, if you happen to be a few miles away on back roads.
 
I'll second what Matt says about the advantages of owning a trailer for storage, transportation to a dealer (or home) for service, etc, and its impact on the boat's resale value, even if you have to borrow a bigger tow vehicle occasionally to use it.

And he's right too, about being able to "get by" on short tows with a somewhat undersized vehicle, if one is very careful.

My '98 Durango has a tow rating of 7300 lbs and a maximum payload of 1800 lbs., and it tows my CD-22 anywhere, anytime, with ease. Over the Sisikyous into Orgegon? No problem! Even in the snow, if done properly.

But I also have a Sea Ray 265 Sedan Bridge that comes in at 6380 lbs., dry weight, and weighs about 9000 lbs. all loded up and on it's aluminum trailer.

I tow it back and forth annually to the dealer down I-5 (3 miles) and also home (another 12 miles), once or twice a year, as needed.

It's not at all out of control at all, you just have to exercise real caution. And not go anywhere very far rigged up like that!

The Durango, with its 5.9 liter V-8, four speed auto transmission, limited slip rear end, and 4WD with low range and oversized tires, launch and retrieve the much bigger boat like a tractor, even with some sand on the launch ramp.

I used to go down the back roads to get from the dealer to home, but finally figured I didn't really need a permit to have the 9 ft wide load on the Interstate, and that I would be less likey to have a panic stop on the freeway than some rural back road full of curves, and loaded with local "hillbilly" traffic, and the "meth crowd".

Yes, I know I'm sticking my neck or whatever out liability/fault wise with the overloaded situation, but the very limited exposure and extreme care taken make it tolerable to me, personally. Lecture anticipated here......:arrow:«_____».

So a trailer and a somewhat undersized vehicle still can be very useful, even if you can't afford the Freightliner solution right now.

Joe. :lol: :thup
 
Sea Wolf":38gikby3 said:
I'll second what Matt says about the advantages of owning a trailer for storage, transportation to a dealer (or home) for service, etc, and its impact on the boat's resale value, even if you have to borrow a bigger tow vehicle occasionally to use it.
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My plan is to keep it at the marina, either in a covered slip, or using their boatel service. The latter is less expensive.

For a flat monthly boatel fee they will put it in the water with an hours notice. When you are done for the day, the will pull it out, wash it down and put it away.

Have any of you ever used such a service? I wonder about the wear and tear on the boat from their handling of it. But then, leaving it in the water all season has its drawbacks, too.

The marina is about a half-hour away, and I don't think I'd be comfortable towing the overweight load for that far a distance. If there were an accident, I'm sure this would be an issue for both the sheriff and the insurance company. Don't think I want to incur that liability.

And here's another point: Though marina fees are expensive, my assumption is this: The easier it is to get out on the water, the more I will use the boat. The extra time and effort required to trailer and put in/pull out will impact the number of times I'll be on the boat during the season.

Now I know that sounds like laziness. But the reality is that I do have to juggle my work life, my family life, and my boat life. The two+ hours I would save by having the boat there waiting for me is two hours more on the water -- which is the whole point of having a boat.

Thanks...
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lazy mike :)
 
Mike:

You are right- the easier it is to turn the engines on and leave, the more you will use the boat. Also, pulling out a Tomcat can be a bit stressful if the launch ramp is busy or if there is a stiff cross breeze.

We keep ours in a slip and use it a lot. At other times, I just go and sit in the boat and work on my computer or just chill. Or, we take friends down in the evening to sit in the cockpit, talk, and have a drink. We have the boat in the slip bow in, so the cockpit has a nice water view and some privacy.

You will have to get the bottom primed and painted- the cost will be about $2500 the first time, with less expensive regular re-painting after that.

The Boatel is the next best solution- but you can't just go sit in the boat. Also, the storage fee is not that much less than a slip fee, at least in our area.

Just my two cents...

Alok
 
wannaboat":v0jltlrm said:
... I wonder about the wear and tear on the boat from their handling of it. But then, leaving it in the water all season has its drawbacks, too.
....
The extra time and effort required to trailer and put in/pull out will impact the number of times I'll be on the boat during the season.

...
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Hi Mike,
I would never trailer a Tomcat for each use. I was referring to owning a trailer for those times when you need or want to get it out of the water or move it. Even if used only twice a year, I would prioritize a trailer just in case and for the other reasons I mentioned.

In terms of the lift/rack services, I would make sure I was there for each and every lift. Depending upon what gear they have to lift vessels, they may not be appropriately equipped to lift a Cat. The Tomcat should not be lifted by the wing in my opinion (center horizontal structure with pontoons beneath) and should only be lifted under the sponsons. I could be paranoid about it, but I would not be willing to stress that area to lift the Tomcat.
 
I agree with Matt, that it would be a real stretch to lift the Tom Cat under the tunnel. I keep mine on a boat lift at my house, but still have a trailer. We use a Ford Excursion diesel for trailering--and these type of SUV's are quite cheap currently--and great tow vehicles.

I would not be at all surprised to find that your boat is at 10,000 lbs. Boris's figures would be conservative for a Tom Cat. The engines are dual 150, the C Dory 25 is usually a single 150. The Tom Cat has 150 gallons of fuel (some may have slightly less)--and the C Dory 25 has 100 gallons. So you are probably looking at 800 lbs more right off the bat for the Tom Cat 255 over the load of a C Dory 25. There is also cavernous storage in the hulls under the bunk--so lots more "stuff" can be put aboard.

Boris's post motivated me to review the weight of my trailers--I was wrong when I said 1500 lbs for the Tom Cat trailer--it is 1900 lbs. This is for a trailer certified to carry 12,850 lbs (beyond the weight of the trailer), with 7,000 lb axels and 8 lug 16" wheels. However, my C Dory 25 trailer, rated at 7500 lbs weight is 800 lbs (again from the certification). This trailer is much lighter in construction than the Tom Cat Trailer--but it is within the actual weight of the boat as loaded for towing (CD 25). Yes, the Aluminum trailers are considerably lighter than the steel trailers, the only major steel is the torsin spring axles, bolts, and the steel wheels. The Aluminum trailers are far more common in the South East--and make a lot of sense--why carry a thousand or more lbs extra weight?

Finally--putting the boat in the water does have a price--and it is not only the bottom paint, but the bottom needs to be have 30 mils of epoxy applied before the bottom paint. I don't know if Alok's $2500 figure included the epoxy, but suspect it did. The epoxy is to form a barrier to prevent blistering of the gelcoat. The boat has to be dewaxed and lightly sanded before the epoxy is applied.

There is a social advantage of having the boat in the water--you will form relationships on the dock. The convience is also very important. I would often stop by my boats for lunch or a quick sail after work.
 
thataway":i9opco7f said:
Finally--putting the boat in the water does have a price--and it is not only the bottom paint, but the bottom needs to be have 30 mils of epoxy applied before the bottom paint. I don't know if Alok's $2500 figure included the epoxy, but suspect it did.
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Hmmm. The boat already has bottom point on it. I asked the dealer about taking it down to the fiberglass for epoxy and new bottom paint. He was adamant that we should not do the epoxy because of -- I can't remember exactly -- something about the resin that is used in the glass. He said the epoxy would eat away at the hull. I'll have to ask him again about that to get the full details.

He said that instead the existing bottom paint should be sanded it a bit to rough it up and put new bottom paint on it.

Does any of this make any sense?

Anyone know the factory's position on epoxy?

thanks
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mike
 
wannaboat":2gy9totm said:
...
Hmmm. The boat already has bottom point on it. I asked the dealer about taking it down to the fiberglass for epoxy and new bottom paint. He was adamant that we should not do the epoxy because of -- I can't remember exactly -- something about the resin that is used in the glass. He said the epoxy would eat away at the hull. I'll have to ask him again about that to get the full details.

He said that instead the existing bottom paint should be sanded it a bit to rough it up and put new bottom paint on it.

Does any of this make any sense?

Anyone know the factory's position on epoxy?

thanks
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mike
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Nonsense....if you keep your boat in the water for long periods of time, especially those that keep them in year round you want an epoxy barrier coat before bottom paint. In the cold Northeast (for those of us who do not have her in year) round epoxy barrier coat is not common. We don't seem to have a higher incidence of blistering from my observation so that seems to be OK.

My Tomcat was painted at the dealership as well. They did not have the paint line high enough so I did use epoxy barrier coat to be extra cautious before applying bottom paint but I'm not worried about the rest of the existing paint/hull. You can only put epoxy barrier coat on a clean hull - you cannot put it on over existing bottom paint. Mine is in the water from mid April to end of October.

Your dealership is not correct about epoxy having reactions a bare hull.
 
So then, it sounds like I can't do epoxy anyway, because there was already bottom point on the boat.

If I go for the coverd slip, the boat will be moored just off the Chesapeake (brackish water).

So, given my circumstances, what's the best way to protect the hull at this point?

Thanks...
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mike
 
The gel coat is the outer coat of polyester resin which is pigmented. There is most likely at least one layer of vinyl ester resin, which is also more resistant than polyester gel coat just under the gel coat layers. This gives some protection to the glass laminate/polyester resin layers which form the structure of the hulls. There have been some rare cases of gel coat blistering in the C Dory boats (for some reason it seems to be more in the green color (?).

In the past the factory has been in favor of putting epoxy barrier coat and bottom paint on for boats kept "full time" in the water. The boat which spends 4 months in the water, is certainly going to be better off than a boat which spends 12 months in the water. Warm water seems to have more blistering than cold water. Fresh water is slightly more likely to have blistering than salt water.

I suspect there is some misunderstanding about epoxy "eat away at the hull" and the resin. Epoxy is the "cure" for blistering and people pay many thousands of dollars to have the blistered gel coat peeled off and epoxy applied.

In your case, you probably should just go with a fresh coat of bottom paint--which has to be compatible with the current paint. If an ablative paint, put on an ablative paint. If a hard paint, then a hard or ablative paint can be used. You could sand off the old bottom paint and put on epoxy--that would be labor intensive. My impression is that C Dory may not stand behind blisters, but Matt has addressed that directly with the previous owners (I believe). My impression is based on the superficial problems which have been seen on several C Dories. To my knowledge there has never been any deep blistering on the C Dory hulls. (Gel coat blistering is much easier to repair).
 
Well, I wouldn't keep it in the water year round, but it could be in brackish water 6 months out of the year.

That is unless I do the boatel service mentioned earlier. I have to ask more questions about that and see if they will lift and handle the the boat correctly.

The previous bottom paint was Interlux Micron, as will be the new (though I am going with a darker blue). This is an ablative paint, I believe.

Dr. Bob, was your point that I shouldn't be worried about not having epoxy underneath? Or, was it that sanding off the old bottom paint was not worth the expense -- or perhaps risky due to potential damage to the gelcoat?

thanks
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mike
 
matt_unique":1mqejjmu said:
My Tomcat was painted at the dealership as well. They did not have the paint line high enough so I did use epoxy barrier coat to be extra cautious before applying bottom paint but I'm not worried about the rest of the existing paint/hull.
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Hey Matt,

I'm confused. Are you saying you just used epoxy above the previous paint line?

Is this before or after you raised it?

thanks...
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matt
 
wannaboat":2lzpqcl7 said:
matt_unique":2lzpqcl7 said:
My Tomcat was painted at the dealership as well. They did not have the paint line high enough so I did use epoxy barrier coat to be extra cautious before applying bottom paint but I'm not worried about the rest of the existing paint/hull.
Click to expand...
Hey Matt,

I'm confused. Are you saying you just used epoxy above the previous paint line?

Is this before or after you raised it?

thanks...
---
matt
Click to expand...

Yes.
Check to verify your paint line is right up to your scupper or else it's too low when fueled. If you look in my photo album (installations) you can see where I raised the paint line. I added epoxy barrier coat only to the area that was bare before raising the paint line. I did not touch the existing paint covering the rest of the bottom.

I researched several trusted pro's up this way because I frankly never heard of using epoxy barrier coat before Dr. Bob and others suggested it here. I was correct in my understanding that we don't typically use an epoxy barrier coat due to our limited season.

To be sure though, if I my Tomcat were available with a bare hull I would have covered it entirely with epoxy barrier coat to be extra cautious. I decided not to have the bottom paint stripped based on my research up here as well as the low incidence (can't recall any actually) of Tomcat's developing blisters.
 
Mike,
We keep our TomCat at Twin Bridges Marina near Anacortes Wa. Except for the social issues pointed out and visiting your boat in a slip for cocktails and R&R. I can not think of any reason not to keep your TomCat in a "Boatel" if one is available. You may want to check to find out if your
"Boatel" will except a TomCat. The cat hull is a little more time consuming to pick up than a mono.
When we return the boat after use, we simply unload our gear. They lift the boat and out put it on an outdoor rack for us to do the clean up and flush the engines. We leave the boat in a condition so that it is ready to board and go on the next adventure. The boat is put in the indoor storage. We do not need to worry about bottom paint, insects, rodents, storms, vandalism, etc.
When we want to use the boat we let them know an hour before we arrive and the boat is in the water in exactly the same condition we left it.
If we want to do any minor maintainance the boat is put outside on a rack.
The cost is little difference than a slip. For us it is a "no brainer"

If you e-mail me I will send photos of the lifting process. this may be of some help if your marina has not lifted a cat hull. It is NOT lifted from the tunnel!
Gary King garyk111@cox.net
 
Mike:
The question of bottom paint and epoxy has been extensively discussed in previous threads. Here is the deal as I understand it. I aplogize if I am repeating stuff that you already know:

The fiberglass from which the hull is made is "laid" or bonded with a resin. There are two commonly used resins: polyester or vinylester.

Either resin can allow water entry through microscopic crevices. The resin has a higher osmolality than fresh or salt water, so once water begins to enter, more and more is pulled in by the higher osmotic pressure. The enlarging water droplet ends up pushing apart the surrounding fiberglass, forming what is called a "blister". The presence of multiple blisters, of course, causes damage to the hull. Blisters are hard to treat- but that is another discussion.

Of the two types of resin, vinylester is MORE blister resistant than polyester. From discussions with the factory, it appears that the outer layers of the Tomcat hull are bonded with vinylester- which is good. Blisters are much less common with vinylester- but not unknown.

With either type of resin, water entry can be completely prevented by applying mutiple coats of epoxy (which I called "primer" in my earlier post) before putting on the bottom paint. The role of epoxy is to prevent blisters; the role of bottom paint is to prevent marine growth.

So, blister resistance is-

- Least with polyester resin and no epoxy

- Better with vinylester resin and no epoxy

- Best if there is an epoxy layer, regardless of the type of resin.

However, blister formation has other unknown factors. There is some evidence that the tendency to form blisters also depends on whether the boat is in the water full time, or whether it is out of the water for an extended period each year so that any water that has penetrated the hull can dry out. In addition, blisters may enlarge quicker in fresh water because of the greater osmotic pressure difference between the resin and fresh water would encourage faster water entry.

With what I know, if I bought a Tomcat that already had bottom paint and was going to be kept out of the water for many months every year, I would probably not strip the hull to apply epoxy. I would just keep up the bottom paint and keep a close eye on the bottom for blisters. But that's only my opinion- there are many on this site with more knowledge that me...

Alok
 
Dr. Bob, was your point that I shouldn't be worried about not having epoxy underneath? Or, was it that sanding off the old bottom paint was not worth the expense -- or perhaps risky due to potential damage to the gelcoat?
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Basically I don't think it is worth the time and expense to remove the paint, since you will be in the water a limited time. If I was keeping the boat in the water full time would remove the paint and put on an epoxy barrier coat. This is based on my following the blister problem since the late 1960's and having seen several boats destroyed by osmosis (both blistering and floppy hulls). For an education on Blistering see:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/blisters.htm There are other threads, but this covers it fairly well.

I would put Micron (maybe the extra, because of the brackish water) and just watch the bottom each season.

Consider that in Virginia that there are some winter days when boating can be fun--and when you can go to the boat just in the slip to "get away". I lived in VA and boated out of Deltaville for 2 years, plus another winter there after back surgery when we were cruising on our large sailboat. Granted that there were some cold days, but there were also some very nice days in Dec thru Feb.
 
Jeez, Bob, I'll never buy a fibreglass boat again. After reading what your surveyor page has to say, it looks like blistering is gonna happen everywhere, and it's just a matter of time.

I was so proud of epoxying Journey On's hull (and Judy's hair at the same time) and now it seems that water can cause blisters from the inside. And those aft cockpit hatches leak.

Is there no hope??????? You've destroyed my faith in plastic boats.

By the way, Catalina is certainly a cheap builder, but they din't seem to have problems with blisters. I did hear of a 42 which had to be rebuilt in the Great Lakes, but that's about it. C=Dory is also a (relatively) inexpensive builder.

Boris
 
Thanks to all for the replies!

I am going to follow Dr. Bob's and Alok's advice.

Gary, I sent you an email regarding the pictures. I think they would help when I go talk to the Marina.

Given a choice, I really would like to go the boatel way -- it would sure be better for the boat to be in the water 30 or so days a season, as opposed to 6 months each season.

But, I just need to make sure the process is not harder on the boat than leaving in the water for six months at a time.

Thanks again to everyone...
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mike
 
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