Tomcat 225 for rough seas, the Santa Barbara Channel?

C

cmetzenberg

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C Dory Year
2007
C Dory Model
255 Tomcat
Vessel Name
Kanaloa
Hi guys, new to the forum. I'm looking into a tomcat but wondering how it will perform in my area, not lots of people have cats down here. So i'm looking for advice from you guys, how does the tomcat 225 fair in the open pacific?

-Conrad
 
cmetzenberg":24jyz26i said:
Hi guys, new to the forum. I'm looking into a tomcat but wondering how it will perform in my area, not lots of people have cats down here. So i'm looking for advice from you guys, how does the tomcat 225 fair in the open pacific?

-Conrad
Click to expand...

I have a Tomcat and spend many days a year between 25 and 75 miles offshore. The Tomcat is a great boat for offshore trips but like any boat, there are conditions that I would avoid. We regularly fish in wind driven waves of 2-3 feet and swells up to 6' (depending on period with longer period being better of course). Wind waves less than 2-3 feet and you don't need to slow down much. Wind waves great than that and you'll often wind up at <20kts. Of course, it all depends on how much pounding you're willing to subject yourself, your passengers and the boat to. The boat can generally handle more than the occupants.
 
Since you live in this area, you know the conditions. It will get nasty in the afternoons, and generally the further South you are, the quieter the conditions are in the early morning. Going out to weather in the morning, and running home in the PM, with the wind, chop and seas behind you will be fine.

I found that about 3 foot chop was my limit for the Tom Cat 255. The Pacific swells were no problem. Actually the cat movement in the USA started in your area, back in the late 50's and 60s. (the earliest was not a cat, but the Malibu outrigger, the 44' Aikane, & C/S/K Catamarans got the movement going.

The Tom Cat is a planing cat. It is more likely to pound going into chop over 3 feet--the Glacier Bay or World Cat will do better into the chop--but beam seas and running the Tom Cat will do far better. There is no other cat in this size which is equal to it as a cruising boat.

Although I do not live in S. Calif. currently I spent over 50 years running sail and power boats in this area--and did sea trail a Tom Cat out of Marina Del Ray before I purchased mine.

There have been several Tom Cat owners in your area--not sure if there are now-hopefully one will offer you a ride.
 
We bought our four years ago from a dealer in Channel Islands Harbor. We made our test run there in 7-10 feet swells. The boat handled it well, me, not so much. As Bob said it can get rough when the swells are a short interval, but with little to no wind they ride great.
 
Good advice.
So from what i'm hearing here and from others, the general consensus is:
up to 3' no problem
over 3' it will slap and take more than you can.
head on into the seas can be kinda uncomfortable....that's uncomfortable on anything though.
beam seas and following it does very well, and that's most of what i deal with in the SB channel.

What are you guys getting on average for fuel? i've heard 2-2.5
 
It depends on the load--in smooth water on 200 mile trips we got 2.2 with a nearly constant 25 knots. (ICW type of running). In areas where you have to work the throttle, 1.8 to 2.

In rougher water it is not a good "trawler". When running with my slower friends, I would go fast, and then wait. We live up a bay which has about 15 miles of fetch--and with the strong Northers we can get 2.5 to 3 foot short chop;; by taking the speed up to 30 to 35, we actually have a smoother ride, with more air compressed under the tunnel.
 
Comments on the two The Hull Truth Links--The Chilkat, Black Feather is a Tom Cat on Steroids--it is the 30 foot Tom Cat by C Dory. These have been used in the charter fleets in AK and great boats. There is at least one "cruising" one of these--I have seen it. But shortly after it was produced the company folded and I believe recently the molds were for sale.

Bullshipper has a lot of cat experience--he is not 100% right, as none of us are, but I would listen very carefully to any thing he writes. There are hundreds of threads on cats which on THT you may have not read--and there are similar issues in many places--not just the area where you are going to boat--which will affect your choice.

If I was having a boat built right now, I would go with a Americat custom 27 or 31, with a cruising layout. There is one which has been built as a dive boat--which would be very easy to use the molds for the cabin to make a great cruising boat.

As to the Glacier Bay 252, it is an older boat--I would look very carefully at it--especially the hull to deck joint. Also read up on how these boats handle in beam and following seas--especially carefully about the several which have rolled over--yes it was with heavy loads, and crew and ice chests shifted to cause the capsize. But there is no tendency for the Tom Cat to do that. The Tom Cat is a much better cruiser--the Glacier bay will run smoother--but slower into the chop.

The Tom Cat 24 is the same hulls as the 255. Who ever is advertising that boat as a 255 is committing fraud. The 255 were not built until about 2006--not in 1997--so I would really wonder what is going on. This outfit was /is a C Dory dealer, so there is no excuse for miss labeling this boat.

The cabin layout in the 24 is a bit different. The head if forward under the console. and may be difficult to use for some. The big bunk is there. There is a galley and dinette. There is an advantage of the 24, Tom Cat and it is lighter usually with more wing deck clearance. However this boat has been re-powered with twin 135 Hondas. Most of the 24's had 90 to 115 hp motors. With the 135 (same block/engine as the 150) it will fly--

The cockpit is a bit smaller in the 24 than the 255 --which has the engine bracket and solid transom.

This 24 might be a winner--but again--sea trial it and see how it runs with the two 135's. The 24 I sea trailed had twin Yahama 115's.

The other issue with the 24 is the long sloping windshield. It can give a green house effect if it is hot. Most of the time in the channel Islands it is cool, so that may not be an issue. Also look at the forward window--does it open, and does it leak.

I would choose the Tom Cat over the Glacier Bay any day...
 
http://compactyachts.com/boats/tomcat-255-a-tough-versatile-vessel-for-cruising/

A good review of the actual TomCat 255. If your budget allows, I would look at a 255 vs the 24'. There are a few used listed on the front page of this site.

Either way I prefer the TomCat over the Glacier Bay. We owned a 24' TomCat, and had it 70 miles offshore from Cabo San Lucas many times, Tuna fishing. Our 24' had twin 140 HP Johnson's. Repackaged Suzuki 140's. That was a great power package. I wouldn't worry about twin 135's on the TomCat 24'.
 
The Honda 135's are identical to the Honda 150'. Except for variable valve timing, which kicks in above 4200 rpm. On Journey On, I usually stay below that, ~3800 rpm. So essentially, I'm running a 135.

The only reason I got a 150 was because of resale. Everybody would say: "oh, it's a 135, that's underpowered." As is happening here. The 135's are enough.

By the way, the Catalina Twin Harbour harbor patrol use 150's, even though they never actually go anywhere. 99% of the time they're idling, the other 1% they're going 5 knts.

One additional comment. That C-dory 24 would be great for the Channel Islands. We've gone over in boats from 22' to 36'. It's not the trip over, it's the swells in the anchorage, and a catamaran should be a lot better than a monohull. Any C-dory is sturdy enough, but remember it's only 25' long.

Boris
 
pending inspection this boat may be a definite buy. As for going with a newer 255, i would if it wasn't double the price.
 
We own the 24 TC and really like it.
While I would certainly "prefer" the 255, it is quite a bit more expensive.

For the type of fishing and cruising we do, it suits us well.
 
As to the sloping windshield of the 24', living in Florida, that "greenhouse effect" has not been an issue for us. In the early days I was always amazed how it was cooler in the cabin than out in the cockpit under the bimini. We do have a short "bill" over our windows and also two types of covers for all or just half of the windshield. It does limit headroom though. One advantage we have discovered is that during cold spells, with windows and rear door closed, it tends to warm up in the cabin quite nice. As a biased 24 owner, I would have a hard time justifying the extra money for the 25. In fairness, the 25 does have features the 24 doesn't, but one has to live within their budget and the 24 wins hands down in that category. Besides, at the time of our purchase the 25 wasn't being made. We have no regrets and consider ourselves very comfortable on this boat.
 
Just found out the dealer has a sale pending....fuuuuuu! :thup :unlove
 
At the risk of getting it chopped off, I'll stick my neck out here since I've owned a sailing catamaran, not a powercat.

The discussion of underwing (bridgedeck) clearance was a major concern prior to building one. Chartering different sailing catamarans in various sea states quickly demonstrated undesirable slapping and pounding in cat vessels with inadequate wing clearance. The short version of this story produced the below conclusions.

* More clearance is better but affects interior space and headroom if too much
* Clearance is somewhat determined by the distance between the two hulls
* A natural curved clearance space for water to pass is preferred
* When motoring at speed in flat water, if the wake from either hull hits the underwing, the clearance is inadequate
* Bay and coastal cruising cats can tolerate less wing clearance than offshore cats

Good luck with this.

Aye.
 
Dreamer":2duoot23 said:
There's a real TC-255 for sale right down the road from you in Ventura!
Click to expand...

dude, spot me 40K...i swear i'll pay you back. :teeth
 
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