TOM CAT 255 Pre Purchase Inquiry

D

Dolfun

New member
Aloha,
Ready to buy a new Tom Cat 255 with 2x135HP Hondas on Maui. Planning on multi day inter island trips between the Hawaiian Islands. Trade winds (usually 10-30 mph with higher gusts) pickup daily and these wind generated waves can be on the average of 8 feet in the channels one right after the other close together. Have been a Capt with a 50 ton Masters USCG Off Shore License and 20 years of charter boat experience. Know the conditions can change quickly from calm to very rough. Anyone have any open ocean experiences in rough seas with a Tom Cat? How do you think the Tom Cat will handle in these conditions? Do you think this boat has what it takes to handle multiple waves coming over the bow if a squall comes in and you find yourself in a washing machine? How does this boat handle with a full load?
Mahalo for your feedback.
Steve
 
Steve,
I have spent some time in the Islands (several months at a time, some ocean racing out of Honolulu, plus a couple of TransPacs, and another "Pleasure sail over"). So I am fairly familiar with those waters. I would not choose a Tom Cat for running between Islands. The boat would handle the waves over the bow--but you really don't want to be in those conditions. The Tom Cat is fine on top of the seas--but you are limited to about true 4 footers max--6 foot will slam and beat the heck out of you and the boat. There are some times that the boat would be fine, but other times when not. Remember the Tom Cat is a planing boat--and the tunnel is not open at displacement speeds.

If you want any cat that size for those conditions, consider the Glacier Bay 2690--but I think that may be too small (it is a semidisplacement cat, and has more tunnel clearance)--The problem with the Glacier Bay is that it can get "squirley" down wind/waves. At least one has separated the hull to deck joint and two capsized (that I know of)--one was beause of down seas/with unsecured load--including the 6 fisherman, beside the skipper.

If I was going to buy a Tom Cat for rough water, I would go with the Suzuki 150's (I sea trailed both the Suzuki and Honda 135's before I purchased my boat)--and the bigger props, with different gearing and consiquent larger pitch, gives better acceloration with the Suzuki--also consider the Permatrims, for lower planing speed.
 
Brent, That is a good question. From what I can see, the Chilkat is very similar to the C Dory, with more beam. I am not positive about the tunnel clearance. It does have the relitatively flat bridge deck--like the tom cat. Malcom Tenant, favors the "reverse" gull wing" type of tunnel, with no flat surfaces--and good clearance. I suspect that the Chilkat would be better, but still not up to 8 foot seas....
 
After boating in the area for several years - many years ago - and working a project for the big Boeing cat -- I don't know of a small cat I'd recommend... driving into that kind of sea is a chore.

Dusty
(Unlimited tonnage ocean master)
 
Dolfun":30goexji said:
Aloha,
Trade winds (usually 10-30 mph with higher gusts) pickup daily and these wind generated waves can be on the average of 8 feet in the channels one right after the other close together.
Click to expand...

Can someone please tell me if any recreational powerboat on our planet would be comfortable in 8-foot seas closely spaced?

--Georgs
 
Sawdust":yb75gziy said:
After boating in the area for several years - many years ago - and working a project for the big Boeing cat -- I don't know of a small cat I'd recommend... driving into that kind of sea is a chore.

Dusty
(Unlimited tonnage ocean master)
Click to expand...

He's just being modest! He drove an Aircraft Carrier for awhile. That's really :thup UNLIMITED TONNAGE!

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":yl3614wi said:
Sawdust":yl3614wi said:
After boating in the area for several years - many years ago - and working a project for the big Boeing cat -- I don't know of a small cat I'd recommend... driving into that kind of sea is a chore.

Dusty
(Unlimited tonnage ocean master)
Click to expand...

He's just being modest! He drove an Aircraft Carrier for awhile. That's really :thup UNLIMITED TONNAGE!

Charlie
Click to expand...

oh...... yes indeed
 
The problem is not 8 foot seas, but it is the steepness of seas and frequency. The seas can be quite steep and frequent in the channels between the islands. The Tom Cat can handle 8 foot seas, at long intervals, (ie swells) and going across seas. But going into steep seas is the problem for any boat: cats or monohulls. These conditions are not unique to the Islands, but you would be dealing with them on a dailly basis, almost every time you went out. In the lee of the Islands; no problems.

There is/was (?) a project to build 350 foot Cats for intra Island transport. There are relitatively few power cats doing long distance voyaging. Wildwind IV ran from New Zealand to Hawaii (as did IceBear) and I believe that both boats had similar experiences. In some ways the boats were not large enough (didn't have enough bridge deck clearance). Probably the best comment on this type of power cat would be at:

http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/powe ... chment.pdf

IceBear appears to be currently for sale at Honolulu at the bargin price of $800,000 (I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost close to 2 million to replace the boat today).

I could only speculate what cat would be satisfactory--but I would say that probably a displacement cat, with bulbous bows would be the best bet. There are a number of relitatively new cats on the market--and many of these are very expensive.... Even in the larger boats, you may have to "tack" into the seas--and run at lower speeds.

I would have to do a lot of research before buying or having a cat built for the Islands. It would be a Malcom Tennant design, and would be at least 36 feet long...with plenty of bridge deck clearance...
 
thataway said:
The problem is not 8 foot seas, but it is the steepness of seas and frequency. The seas can be quite steep and frequent in the channels between the islands. The Tom Cat can handle 8 foot seas, at long intervals, (ie swells) and going across seas. But going into steep seas is the problem for any boat: cats or monohulls. These conditions are not unique to the Islands, but you would be dealing with them on a dailly basis, almost every time you went out. In the lee of the Islands; no problems. quote]

Bob,

How do sailboats manage in kinds of seas around the islands....or do they?

-Greg
Click to expand...
 
Brent":2ev6kci8 said:
Can you expand on plenty of bridge deck clearance?
Click to expand...

The bridge deck clearance is the height above the water of the underneath part of the boat between the hulls. In steep waves, this area takes a real pounding... the more clearance the better, but this results in a much higher cabin and that creates another set of problems (windage, weight - both detrimental to the performance of a multihull).

I've sailed a 40' custom cat and a 34' production cat in the Molakai Channel and they both took a beating. The waves can be close and steep, and you can't get enough bridge clearance. It's best to take the waves at enough of an angle to get one hull up before the other to gain some clearance... but that results in a "rolly" motion (my description). If the multi is too short for the conditions, you run the chance of stuffing bows - also not good.

You see plenty of multihull day charter boats between Maui and Lanai, but the water is generally less churned up in that area.

I am a fan of multihull sailboats, but like any boat, it's best to choose the right boat for the predominant conditions you expect. To get back to the thread, if you pick your times, you could run between the islands with most any boat... to expect to do it on any given occasion would make me lean more towards a monoull with plenty of weight and length.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Aloha,
Thanks for your help.
Seems like a bigger boat would be better.
Currently checking out these three.
Any suggestions?
Arrowcat30
arrowcatmarine.com
Chilkat 30
blackfeatherboats.com
Glacier Bay 3080
glacierbaycats.com
Mahalo
Steve
 
I am not sure that going up a couple of feet will make a lot of difference. There was at last one Glaceir Bay 34 which went down to the Caribbean and had problems with the seas on the way down there. Of course the boat was heavily loaded, with fuel and supplies.

The sailing cats are nearly always going to be at an angle to the wind and seas, thus less of a problem than a cat going directly into the seas.

Malcom Tennant's designs have the CS hull form (in the article I referenced)--and no flat surfaces on the bottom side of the bridge deck.

Another issue is "sneezing" that is compressing air and water between the hulls, and this spray blowing out the front of the boat, and blowing back on the cabin. Some boats have more of this than others. The Tom Cat has little of this problem.

The Tom Cat 255 (at least mine) does not have tunnel clearance at rest or slow speeds--it has to be on a plane to get tunnel clearance. You have to have full tunnel clearance to have air compression under the hull, which is part of that characteristic which gives a smooth ride.

The hull form of the Chilkat appears to be the same as the Tom Cat--it was designed by the same folks and the molds came from the old C Dory group as I under stand it. I am not sure how much tunnel clearance there is.

As you go up in size, of course the cost of purchase, and running goes up. The Glacier Bay 34's have to have at least 250 hp outboards--and probably 300 hp would do better. But the larger boats have much more in the way of accomidations. Diesels in the smaller (and even the larger cats) can be a problem, because of access. My friend who has the 55 footer, was puzzling on how to get to the raw water pump, down in the side of the narrow hulls.

Of course it all depends on the budget, but I am impressed by the Maine Cat 45 (started as a 39)--but it will come in at about 600K when outfitted.
I would be interested in your eventual conculsions.
 
Brent -

I probably didn't label my post right. Should have said Boeing Jetfoil. Seaflite ran 3 of these in the islands from about 1975-78 -- I was often involved as a consultant. Financial disaster. I think they went on to Hongkong. As I recall (memory not too good now), one was also used from Seattle to Victoria for a while... remember one hitting a big log with considerable damage.

Bottom line, I think a Tomcat would be great in the islands if you could pick your weather... as Bob sez very correctly IMO, you won't be happy driving a Tomcat (or any other cat that size) into 8 ft. closely spaced seas. My 24 Tomcat was very unpleasant in 4-5 ft. seas, and I always tried to tack like those nutty sailboat guys.

Dusty
 
Brent, Dusty was the Air Boss on the USS Independence in 1964 as a Captain when I came aboard as an Ensign (Boiler Officer), a newbie out of OCS. He and I overlapped just a little bit. I think he retired a few years after that. I got out in 1991 after 32 years (didn't want to make a career of it)! :lol:

Charlie
 
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