To buy a c-dory or not.

maxone2003

New member
After cruising this site (and others) for a few years..... and getting the o.k from the wife(always helps).. It is time for a new boat. I love the 22' cruiser because of price, layout, looks, low fuel cost. etc. My worry is that my boat will be berthed all year (salt/ S.F bay area). Would an aluminum boat be better in this situation?? Is the c-dory hull really that good? what about blisters? core rot?? anyone have any problems? Aluminum seems to cost more but is it worth the extra money???
 
maxone2003":1czjddal said:
After cruising this site (and others) for a few years..... and getting the o.k from the wife(always helps).. It is time for a new boat. I love the 22' cruiser because of price, layout, looks, low fuel cost. etc. My worry is that my boat will be berthed all year (salt/ S.F bay area). Would an aluminum boat be better in this situation?? Is the c-dory hull really that good? what about blisters? core rot?? anyone have any problems? Aluminum seems to cost more but is it worth the extra money???

If you buy Alu. Make sure it is 5086aloy if you plan to leave it in the salt water. 5052 is ok for part time salt. Is the Cdory hull that good?
ICE_1.jpg

I was 1 day late getting the JMR II out last year it killed me leaving it sit like this for a month, but other than some Ulcers for me all was / is well :mrgreen: :beer
PS, that is 24" of Hard Salt Water :cry
 
I agree that fiberglass is better than aluminum for salt water. (There are many boats which are aluminum and kept in salt water, but there are far more, and with far less problems)

The C Dory should have the bottom well cleaned with dewaxing solutions (bought at an automotive paint store)--and scuffed with sandpaper. Then it needs to be coated with 12 to 20 mils of epoxy (something like Interpoxy 2000) then bottom paint.

No core rot, IF there are no penetrations of the fiberglass skin. If the skin is penetrated, the area around the penetration needs to be ground out and epoxy sealed, so that NO water can get into the core. If there is sufficient glass (as there has been in the C Dory line)--there there should be no core delamination.
 
I've grew up with a fiberglass boat but have enjoyed using aluminum boats these past ten years on the Columbia river. For their length, aluminum boats are generally much lighter than fiberglass, therefore they require less horsepower to push them than a similar hull shape of glass. They also weigh less on the trailer, requiring less horsepower and braking ability to tow them there too. Aluminum dents rather than cracks and aluminum boats can bounce on the beach, along a dock, into other boats (while anchored at a hogline) or over logs and even rocks with no harm and very little cosmetic effect. The same can't be said for fiberglass. Managing an aluminum boat at a dock in choppy water is much easier too, because they weigh so much less, it is easy for one person to nudge it here or there, the boat responds quickly and you aren't likely to strain anything or get a foot pinched if the gunwale comes down on it. Likewise, they load onto trailers much easier and winching them on is cake.

I met Ernie Duckworth in the 70s back when he had two good eyes and was one of the first in the industry to put a big block V-8 into a shallow deadrise jetsled and run Hells Canyon in the class 4 rapids (upstream from Asotin, WA 190 miles roundtrip -- in one day -- an awesome ride I'd suggest to any boating fan with views of the world's deepest gorge, desert country, Rocky Mtn. bighorn sheep, deer, golden eagles etc.). For high speed performance in turbulent, shallow water, nothing can touch them. My large 23' boat that can comfortably seat 8 and is rated for 10 passengers has a 6" draft when on plane, my last boat 4". They can launch at the mere suggestion of a beach or ramp. There aren't two layers to the hull where water can accumulate, rot is never a problem. The quality of the welds has taken on a level of expertise that is as artistically beautiful as it is hammer-like functional (at a boatshow, compare North River, Thunderjet or Duckworth boats to Alumiweld, Raider, Lund or Smokercraft and you'll see what I mean). People with aluminum hulls don't spend time or money maintaining them, and that has significant charm. They can be bottom painted for salt water too.

So why am I switching to a fiberglass boat?

Kalama is a "hot" marina and I moor there year-round. It is fresh water but there is lots of electrical current in the water and yes, I can see some pitting on the jetpump from electrolysis. I have zincs. The hull is unaffected. This condition would be accelerated in salt water. I am jealous of the fiberglass boats with outboards that can be lifted 100% out of the water. Fiberglass is a poor conductor compared to aluminum.

Hull detail: aluminum used for boat hulls comes in flat sheets. They bend it, they cut it and weld it together in an amazing variety, but the strakes are not as sharp, crisp or numerous (again, as beautiful as an Estwing 40 oz. hammer). Here fiberglass has less compromise. From the ground up, glass can be molded/shaped with fewer limitations and much more detail, allowing for a more hydrodynamically influenced design. It is more elegant and finessed.

I realized that I am more interested in fishing and boating in the deeper water (that means deeper than 5 ft) - to include ocean and mainstem Columbia river than I am interested in fishing both deep water and also the shallower Cowlitz and Lewis Rivers where a shallow draft sled is required. I also want to get away from the big block V-8, its maintainence, and don't need a jet and its performance and accompanying fuel consumption. A propeller has better low speed control, making docking a breeze. Aluminum is also much louder than fiberglass. You hear the water through the hull more and generally, that is not a good thing, especially when you are trying to sleep. We also want a more cruising-friendly boat than we have with a galley and sink & sleeping quarters that can remain in place during use.

There are more and more aluminum boats designed for salt water. If the wiring is done right (not grounded to hull) and if the motors are well zinced, there aren't too many problems. C.W.
 
I had a 1986 aluminum 20ft Starcraft Islander w/outboard, bought it used. When it was about 8 yrs old on a trip to Catalina, I noticed we were sinking, rapidly. I couldn't see where it was coming from at the time but heard the bilge pump come on about every 5 minutes. Still couldn't find it when we got home, but was suggested to fill the bottom of the boat with water while on the trailer. Wow, sprinkler system, about 15 tiny holes up near the helm section and about the same at the stern near the bilge pump. The 'factory' had grounded the battery to the hull, it created an electrolysis path. I removed the ground, patched the hull from the inside with new aluminum plates per recommended procedure and sold the boat about a year later. Like others have said, gotta watch those grounds!
 
Max,

No contest. The small aluminum boats are fresh water lake boats. C-Dory is a salt and fresh water boat. It is easy to trailer as many of your fellow Californians can tell you. If properly maintained, it will last you for years. My C-Dory was built in 1983, spent it's first life in Alaska, and is now used in New England. It is better than most new boats.

It is also economical to run. Very important in these days of high priced gas.

Good luck.

Fred
 
There are TONS of aluminum boats moored in the ocean in Alaska...as others have said, just have to pay close attention to how wiring is done. We had one (a Wooldridge) and never had a lick of trouble with it. I loved the bloody thing.

It all boils down to what you want. It's very tough to beat the CD for overall use, though...very good at many things and economical.

Rick
 
This question is directed primarily toward CW and others with aluminum drift/sled/river boat experience.

I'm curious about this boat. It's being marketed as a dual-purpose drift and jet boat. Since I am not a hardcore river fisherman it seems like a useful compromise, and it seems economical to buy and run. What's your opinion?

Thanks.
 
Doryman, I wonder what the price is for that 18 ft. stealth. The 40/30 designation on jet pump outboards means it is a 40 horsepower engine wtih pump that provides the same amount of push as a 30 horsepower engine with a prop. That is minimal for an 18 ft. boat, but then again, this one has a bottom of just 1/8" and sides even less. 535 lbs is light. Rogue Marine enjoys a good reputation for their traditional dory style drift boats, which generally have a rounded bottom (rounded viewed from the side, from bow down amidships and then back up at the stern (which faces upstream as you "back row" upstream against the current, bow in front for the white water , rods off of either side of high prow, the stern is also practically pointed to take the water current coming that way effectively. Anchors are dropped behind, upstream off of the stern. This Stealth is rowed oppositely and for any real water turbulence you'd take it with the bow, engine running for steering, then turn around to fish. You wouldn't want the Yamaha taking hits from rocks going the "driftboat" way!

This would be a great boat to fish solo or with one or two others on the Cowlitz or up on the rough Snake. Gas engines aren't allowed on the Kalama all though they are now going to allow electric motors.

With its flat bottom it would pound excessively in any chop greater than 6" and would make a poor boat for larger water where wind makes waves. This is where a typical open Alumiweld or North River with a shallow V is much better and they fish the skinny water great too. Guys with these kinds of boats use tiller controls for greater manuverability than console steering. These boats (and Stealth) allow you to anchor or drift through a hole and then remotor up above it to drift through multiple times, something a true drift boat cannot do. That is how we fished the Quinault River on the Olympic Peninsula one day and my dad and his buddy caught [and killed] 35 steelhead (Quinault Indian Reservation, Indian fishing guide, my dad and friend kept the largest 4, the Quinalt kept the other 31.) I'd go used traditional jetsled with a good condition outboard for the same money -- sturdier boat, more uses, bigger water, can fish more people.

But if you fish water where motors aren't allowed or really prefer the quiet, stealthy approach of drift boats.... get a drift boat. You'll be rowing all day and it is hard to fish by yourself. Some guys also put a small long shaft outboard with prop (like a 3-8 horse) kicker motor on the back (2 stroke to save weight) of a traditional drift boat and do just fine on bigger water (slow/nonplaning, so no pounding, economic, and with its high freeboard, safe, and better for trolling) and they can always drift too.

If you are not a "die hard fisherman" I would not get a drift boat or a Stealth (or even a jet) until you try it out and become a die hard fisherman or better learn your needs. C.W.
 
Forget what I said about using this on "the rough Snake"... don't know what I was thinking, not enough horsepower to combat that very strong current unless all you did was go downstream or fish the calms. C.W.
 
Thanks, CW. Lots of things to think about in those posts. I'll talk to you about these options further if and when I meet you (SBS? Cathlamet?) I won't be getting a boat of this sort for quite a while. During that time I'll get more experience so I know more about what I want.

Warren
 
Warren/Doryman, I hope to see you in Seattle this weekend too. Here's a smaller than average jetsled (16 ft? with 60 Honda jetpump) often seen on our rivers, but a very useful one all the same. My buddy just bought a similar North River but it was 18 ft. with 115 Yamaha pump and trailer on Craigslist, new, for $20,900 from a guy who won it in a raffle and didn't want it. Not trying to convert C-Brats to aluminum and I apologize for dominating this thread. C.W.
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We all love C-Dories, but we also all realize that they are not skinny water boats, so IMHO it is not about converting someone, just about choosing the right tool for the job. 8)

Now, about convincing the Admiral that I need another tool...hmmmmm :mrgreen:

Warren

P.S. Is that guy fishing from a La-Z-Boy chair? :shock:
 
I researched aluminum boats before I signed for the Tomcat.

There is only one passenger transport company in Boston Harbor that uses fiberglass boats, and these boats are solid fiberglass with no coring. Every other commercial boat in the harbor is AL and they stay in the water year round except for maybe 3 weeks when they are dry docked for paint and other repairs. This is telling....combined with the core risks and blistering of fiberglass/cored boats I looked closely at AL boats for my own personal uses.

Bottom line, to get a custom built AL cruiser that was fully enclosed, with head, dinette, berths, etc., etc like the C-Dory was WAY more expensive than the Tomcat. I looked for my email from an East Coast builder but I could not find it....it was close to $200,000 if I remember correctly. All the 'manufactured' AL cruisers (with more reasonable prices) are on the West Coast or in Canada. I would not have an easy means of getting local repairs if I had problems, would not have an opportunity to sea trial unless I flew out West, etc. I decided the cost and logistics for me were too high.

There are AL boats with electrolysis problems which would require careful monitoring. This brand caught my attention but I know nothing about them other than what I've ready on their website:

http://www.silverstreakboats.com/


I am in no way suggesting AL boats are better then C-Dory, but I too went through this decision making process because I liked the idea of no core rot.
 
And Doryman said..

We all love C-Dories, but we also all realize that they are not skinny water boats, so IMHO it is not about converting someone, just about choosing the right tool for the job. Cool

Now, about convincing the Admiral that I need another tool...hmmmmm Mr. Green

Warren

So going with the philosophy of a tool pays for itself the first time it is used, looks like you should be able to rationalize this one.. :idea
 
Maybe the cold Pacific water will counteract this problem, but I've had both aluminum and fiberglass boats and liked each, but the hot summers here in the Midwest get that aluminum so hot you can burn yourself or your passengers on a hot sunny day.

Aluminum is good if you know a good Heliarc Welder (TIG) in that you can have him/her weld you up an ice breaker bow, a rock skid beaching bow, or a cover for any accidental hole experiences. You can easily have fiberglass repaired also, and can have metal skid plates mounted on a fiberglass if you're willing to risk or be careful about balsa core penetration. I think less bilge condensation in the fiberglass also.

I prefer the fiberglass for a boat in the water and plugged in at the dock much of the time since I think less electrolysis problems in fiberglass.

John
 
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