The good and the oh-so bad.

Yes, pictures!

However, it has just occurred to me that the strength of all this group, this site and the outings and the exchange of ideas is truly in the people, i.e. YOU guys/gals! The same pioneering spirit that has customized all the old models will soon be posting pics of how to: 1 - extend the gunwale pockets, 2 - enlarge small vertical door opening into large storage area, 3 - overcome the fixed dinette seat, and so on....

Just keep being the pioneers that you have been and we'll all be OK!

John
 
Hi Larry -

Good to see you on. Your can sure tell when winter is upon us and we have nothing fun to do but sit around and bitch!!

Pictures not yet, my friend. I'm told by a reliable source that CD is working hard on making the dinette side what we all want - functional and better.

As you know, I've been on this boating kick from all three sides - manufacturer, dealer, and many times buyer. It's therefor easier perhaps to see the big picture as I sit here and watch the snow flutter down. The factory wants us happy and monitors this site all the time. The factory, I'm sure (they don't tell me nuthin'), wants to make a beter boat, eliminate problem areas, reduce production costs so they can stay competitive, and sell more boats so they can make a profit. Not unlike other manufacturers, I'm sure. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and labor costs go up regularly. As far as I'm concerned, good on 'em.

The factory does not do retail sales anymore so their real customers are their dealers. The dealers need good products to sell (dog food, cat food, etc. is getting expensive), so they are the first to make their - and their customer's - desires and complaints known to the manufacturer.

I really like what they did with the cockpit and slidiing glass door (some folks don't, I know), and if they do as well inside they'll have a winner. Lots of up-front costs to make the molds, but in the end it should be cost effective. I sure hope so, because their customer support has been awsome and greatly appreciated.

So enough already! How you and Nancy doing? Sure been a rotten winter to go cruising on that beautiful new boat.

Big hug to Nancy,

Dusty
 
Ok, everyone keeps talking about how hard it is to clean the Decaguard. I thought so too but until I discovered a product called a "magic eraser". You can find them at your grocery store. I only share this info because you will be stunned at how easy shoe scuffs ect. come off the Decaguard. It even works great on fiberglass :wink:
 
Dusty,

The factory does not do retail sales anymore so their real customers are their dealers.
Click to expand...

That may be the most important part of this discussion!!

And many dealers and boat salesmen (Dusty and Les are an exception) don't spend a lot of time using the boats they sell.

The moulded interior looks good and should work well for a day use or day fishing boat. Those of us who do live-aboard cruising won't be as happy.

One small example. On the CC boats, the counter top did not have a fiddle or railing around the edge, so any liquid spilled on the counter would run over the edge and onto the floor or under the helm seat. And any object(cup, knife, etc) could do the same. No problem if you don't use the galley, but the cook won't be happy.

Dusty,

Nancy says hi and returns your hug!! We are waiting for better weather to move our new boat to our covered slip in Everett.

Larry H
 
Sawdust":3hqmeuv9 said:
... I really like what they did with the cockpit and slidiing glass door (some folks don't, I know), and if they do as well inside they'll have a winner. Lots of up-front costs to make the molds, but in the end it should be cost effective. I sure hope so, because their customer support has been awsome and greatly appreciated.

...

Dusty
Click to expand...

There's a "sliding glass door"??? I gotta quit taking these naps! :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Decragaurd is easy to clean. Windex and a towel does great.

And Decraguard is not a cheap pressboard and plastic like someone alluded to earlier. It is marine grade plywood with plastic (for lack of a better word) laminate on both sides. It is also expensive as far as plywood goes.

OK - the rest of this is going to get me in trouble. And as a disclaimer: keep in mind it is coming from a so-so mechanic and not a master shipwright.

In talking to Jeff about this a while back, he said that one of the biggest factors driving the interior redo was the problem with keeping good carpenters on staff and at work. When I suggested they farm out the layout and cutting of the pieces, he said they do contract a shop to cut the pieces for the 25 interior on a CNC machine, but they were about to lose that service as well. While the quality of the woodwork in the CD is beyond what I can turn out, it is still far from cabinet grade construction. I mean come on - it is square cut edges held together with angle clips. Now if the joints were dadoed, glued and seated I could see the big deal with building it, but the way they put it together is probably the best for the application because it allows for expansion and flex while still staying in place...

...Which brings up another point mentioned previously. One school of thought has the molded interior modules adding to the strength and rigidity of the hull. I would certainly hope not. The hull is plenty strong enough the way it is and it shouldn't be made more rigid because it has to be able to flex. If that boat can't bend in the middle just a little it is not going to fare too well on the water or the trailer. That's why the stress cracks sometimes show up on the corner of the rear bulkhead at the gunnels and the corners of the front bulkhead. Does anyone know if this new Fisher Price interior is glassed to the hull or just sitting there with something to cushion the joints? If it is attached solidly - whoa - naw, they wouldn't do that.

I am sorry, but I just cannot bring myself to see the good in this. The folks in the market they appear to be trying to lure won't like all the other things about the C-Dory that we find so charming, anyway. Like the slow cruise and the ride. The head-bumping on the doorway and the so called electronics shelf. The sticky windows. And the fact that if we screw something up trying to do some interior modifications, we can fix it with little more then a new chunk of plywood. But it is their plant and their business and I have no place telling them how to run it. I accept that.

One thing this change might do that will affect those of us who are not harmed by it because we already have our favorite boat is bring the resale value down. Because of the points raised in the preceding paragraph, I truly believe that the shiny new maintenance free interior will convince a lot of people who may be on the fence about buying a CD to go ahead and buy something they will not be so happy with once the quirks reveal themselves. Glitter boats and go-fast boats are synonymous with each other. Glitter in a C-Dory is not going to make it tow water skiers nor lend its design to bikinis on the bow. It is the owners as much as the quality of the C-Dory that keeps the resale value so high. If a lot more used ones start showing up for sale, the value will not be there. If they really want to attract a broader customer base, they should introduce a new design tailored to the demographics they're after, not try to make a one-size-fits-all. Almost to a person, the most enthutiastic and contented C-Dory owners are those who have had one or several boats previously and feel they have finally found a boat that was made for them.

I do like the glass door, though.

Have you noticed this really bugs me?
 
TyBoo":2qgigy7r said:
...If they really want to attract a broader customer base, they should introduce a new design tailored to the demographics they're after, not try to make a one-size-fits-all. Almost to a person, the most enthutiastic and contented C-Dory owners are those who have had one or several boats previously and feel they have finally found a boat that was made for them.

I do like the glass door, though.

Have you noticed this really bugs me?
Click to expand...

This is why I mentioned Bayliner earlier on. The closer they try to
make a C-Dory come to cookie-cutter, the more they are going to
have to directly compete in that market. I don't know if they will
win or lose, but they won't have a traditional C-Dory in the end.

And yet I don't think anyone has suggested the new deck liner is a
bad idea. And the new tanks and the better interior transom panel.
And the glass door seems pretty popular, too.

And if you have ever tried to cut Decraguard, you know what it is.
And cheap it isn't. Wouldn't surprise me if that is part of the motivation
for the new design. Good plywood with as many plys as it has,
and no voids near the outer skins (at all?) and apparently top quality glue
since no one ever mention delamination is bound to be expensive.

Mike
 
Mike,

I kinda noticed you don't like it :wink: -- I saw it and didn't like it either, but I've got confidence they will get it right.

I've said it before - the real truth-teller is the bottom line: if folks like it they will buy - and if they don't, walk down the isle and put their money on another plastic-lined boat.

Don't agree that this will reduce the value of our present bathtub toys. Boat prices are going UP like everything else, and I think our investments are fun and secure. Just can't imagine a C-Dory that looks like a C-Dory, is economical like a C-Dory, and has the same hull as ours will lose sales because it has a better (IMO, certainly not yours) interior.

Okay, I'd rather have old TyBoo 22!!!

Dusty
 
WOW – I avoided this thread for a day & a half and there are almost 2 & 1/2 pages of comments since then. I have to admit I am glad the people that are not afraid of change have finally spoken up. If I were to buy a new C-Dory, I would buy just the hull so I could customize it to my satisfaction, but I am not the typical buyer and a company catering to people like me will go broke. Instead of trying to convince C-Dory to go back to the old way, you should try and convince them to offer a model that can be customized by you or a third party to your satisfaction.

Now let me tell you a short story about a TV manufacturer back in the early to mid 60’s. This company was the largest and prided itself in the quality of it’s product. Their TV was put together and completely wired by hand. That was part of their advertising campaign. This company was the Cadillac of the TV industry and known for it’s quality work. At about that time, transistors were starting to be used in the manufacturing of TV’s and so was the printed circuit board.

The Japanese adopted it whole heartedly and started exporting TV’s to the US. They were junk, but with every model, their TV got better. But so did the hand wired ones. Eventually both were equal in quality, the difference was the hand wired ones cost 30 percent more and weighted that much more. Then the imported TV’s started offering options that were not available on the hand wired tube sets.

As this was happening, there was a loyal following of this company and the old timers said they would not abandon the company. The company became a niche manufacturer of hand wired TV’s for a while. Eventually even the old-timers begin abandoning them. The company had no choice but to join the solid state printed circuit board TV business, but then it was too late. They went from the largest to a nobody. Since then they have come back a little, but it was a long process and they are no-where like they were. That company was Zenith.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
I've been following this thread and am inclined to not form any strong opinion until I see it (though we're REALLY happy with the CatyMae and have no intentions of giving her up until we reach the ages when we feel we just can't boat any more).

I have a dumb question .... Orca ... do they have molded interior? I'm guessing they do .... just send the customers who want glitz to look at their Orca for Pete's sake! Or make a smaller Orca that's more affordable for those who don't have glitz money but have the aspirations.

I just wonder how wise it is...when you have a huge backlog of orders (like they did at the end of last year's boat show -- did they ever recover?), and they're still coming, to change the design of the boat -- those folks ordering must be ordering because they like what they've seen -- not necessarily what's coming down the pike...tried and true....just a question, not saying it's right or wrong

Caty
 
Since the design change makes it easier to build the boat faster, it seems like a wise decision when you have a backog.....
BTW - Mike - I still don't think the decrgaurd cleans that easily. I also REALLY dislike the starboard under my feet at the helm and the dining table. That definitely doesn't clean easily.
 
Current boat has glass interior. Most boats have glass interior.

Its great if it works for you (the layout). But if it doesn't, removing the liner and starting over is a bitch. Such a bitch that few people do it.

But how many people, even with the Decragaurd interior, modify anything much. It seems a few do, but if you look at used ones (like I have) the interiors have been left alone.

Glass is sure easy to clean. In my sailboat, I just remove cushions, and hose it out. Sometimes I hit it with a shopvac.

But the inside of the glass can really mess you up if its not done right. If the inside of the glass has lots of gellcoat, then you are pretty good, if not, you are going to cus the boat and manufacture forever.

Myself, if I buy a CD its going to be a used 22 because I couldn't afford a new one anyway.
 
I don't know if it applies to C-Dory's current position, but many businesses reach critical points in growth where they either have to tool up and speed up and increase production, or fade out.

I have had several start up companies hit just such a spot, and difficult decisions have to be made which have long lasting repercussions.

Maybe they reached a point where they did not have the manpower and tooling to produce what was ordered, but could not justify new tooling without modifying the models to appeal to a larger market in order to better justify the needed upgrades in manufacturing processes.

As far as these topics on the fiberglass interior go, though, I am about ready to just sign off since it seems so many just think nothing should ever change.

John
 
rogerbum":tvvmnk24 said:
Since the design change makes it easier to build the boat faster, it seems like a wise decision when you have a backog.....
BTW - Mike - I still don't think the decrgaurd cleans that easily. I also REALLY dislike the starboard under my feet at the helm and the dining table. That definitely doesn't clean easily.
Click to expand...

Again, buy a magic eraser at the grocery store (sponge section) you will be amazed how well it cleans.

I agree about the starboard though. Nothing seems to clean it easily.
 
Steve,

The Orca is a fine boat. I really liked mine, but the deep-V hull just didn't appeal to me for my then old age. Most folks know the story of the deep-V and its great performance - except it doesn't like mid-range speeds and loves gas stations.

But when I bought my Orca I visited the factory almost daily -- new boat to C Dory and it was transition time -- I was shocked at the number of man-hours required to build that beauty. As an ex (TG TG) boat builder I was totally amazed at the construction. She's probably IMO the best constructed boat of her size we build in the U. S. or even in our friendly neighbors to the north. Expensive to build - and yes, it has a glass liner. CDory may have been able to cut the production costs down, but I'd guess she's still way, way up there.

Dusty - looking at Roger's place across the pond. Beautiful day.
 
The white Decraguard may not clean easily, but the older wood-grained Decraguard doesn't show dirt much at all, either on the cabinet tops, walls, or floor. Or- are those who are having trouble with the white floors dealing with Starboard, which is HDPE (high density poly ethelene), which is the materials curtting boards ae made out of? It's notoriously soft, porous, and hard to remove stains from.

The best solution for both when they're used as the flooring is to keep them covered with carpet or some other dirt blocking material, IMHO.

Joe.
 
I have to get back in here a little. Seems this is turning in to a glass vs. wood thing. I like the wood because it is easier to modify and you will have to do that if you want any shelves. With wood all you do is screw and 1/2inch by 1/2 inch by how ever long you need kicker into the inside of the cabinet and place a shelf on it. Easy and done. With glass you will have to thru bolt the fiberglass and have the bolts showing on the out side of the cabinet. If you want to change something it leaves a hole that now has to be fixed. I plan to move the sink and wallas a little this year. Someone else did it already and it looks great and leaves more storage room.
That being said, the main problem I have with the molded interior is the design. I did not mind the cape cruiser molded interior as much because the design was really good. The table fix they did, if you never saw it, was great and I hope to be able to redo my table to match it. The one thing that is a really sore spot for us is the table. It just does not work right and has broken several times. I also hope to redo the backrest for the front facing seat.
So the design of the boat I saw was really bad but it was for sell on a lot with 8 or 9 others all with the same design. If they can change it, and it sound like they are doing that, then I will have to look at it again and see what I think. Just the fact that they are redoing it tells me that I was right in my review. I hope they get it done right. Now if they would just fix that big hole at the back of the boat they call a "splash well" biggest waste of space I have seen. That was something the cape cruiser did right. I have been asking for c-dory to change that every time I see them for three years. That requires a new mold and is really expensive, that’s why I am not holding my breath. I have a plan to copy another brats glass fish box that he built back there along with a bait table up higher. I may even copy sea rams downrigger mounts into the bait table. Sure wish red fox lived down this way. Any welders out there in the Seattle area????
 
If the overall boat is lighter with the fiberglass insert, it's probably a good change. You can always slap wood on top of the fiberglass if you want wood. If they offer a bare interior where you can put the old style cabinatry in, so much the better. If not, maybe the old ones will just hold their value even better.

Time will tell.
 
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