The good and the oh-so bad.

S

starcrafttom

Active member
I attended the fishing seminar in fifi yesterday and had my first opportunity to see the 25 c ranger tug and the new molded interior of the 22 c-dory. I would like to share what I think about these two new developments.

The c-ranger tug came out better then I was expecting. There is a lot of room in the forward berth for even me to lie down. The height of the forward berths roof is wonderful. This allows me to stand up to dress or sit up to read. By removing the center cushion the forward bunk becomes a nice sitting area. The galley is well done with lots of counter space after you flip up the captain’s seat. The bath and shower seems to have a lot of room for so small a boat. The only thing that I was not finding on this boat was the fish cooler on the back deck but there was room for one to be added under the deck hatch. This tug is big enough for two people to cruise to anywhere in comfort with out being crowded. I also think that with a few downriggers mounted and a rear steering station with depth sounder the tug would make a good fishing platform while cruising. It would be a great boat to hang out on while waiting on the crab or shrimp to fill the pots. There is a bait tank on the rear deck that is to small for salmon but would be great for crabs or shrimp. If I was looking cruising boat for going to Alaska when I have the time to only go 12 mph then this would be it. I never want a large boat. 30ft would be my max so this boat is just perfect. A re interdiction of the 27ft pilot house would be the thing c dory could do for me but I am not holding my breath.

Now for the 22’s molded cabinets. After looking at it and then telling scott what I thought I will share with you my thoughts. This is with out a doubt the worst idea and biggest set back that c-dory has had yet. Last year c-dory added the flat raised aft deck and full glass rear door , both were great improvements as were the bigger fuel tank just before that. The new molded glass interior loses a great deal of storage space and does not allow for shelves to be added very easily. There is no storage above the water tank. The table is now a pedestal table that is not attached to the wall and wobbles around like a bobble head doll. I think it would be pounding the wall in any rough water. How will I get my feet under t ith out hitting the pedestal is beyond me. The table is also about a 3rd less in size. The sliding front seat that we all love so much is gone. The molded seat is not movable but the back seat rest is. The seat is not as wide to make up room for your legs, but does not have enough room for me to get between the table and back rest. There is a door to the space under the seat but no bottom. It just opens up all the way to the hull. This space is smaller then normal barber seat and has no shelves. The same can be said for the area under the captain’s seat. The storage under the seat and under the feet is the open to one another. This is not a good idea as you have to come up with a way to keep stuff from sliding around. This also opens up to the storage under the sink and the same problems of not having shelves. I also think that having fiberglass as a counter top in a cooking area is a dumb idea that is just waiting for a hot pan to strike.


If I was looking for a boat today and this molded interior was my only choice I would pass on the c-dory. The cape cruiser’s molded interior has a bigger table that swings out of the way and more storage. Also the front seat moves back and forth and is much larger. I know that c-dory is trying to save money and stream line there building process but this was a wrong move in my humble opinion. I know the boat show is coming up but I don’t think this is going to help them at all. I hope that c-dory abandons the idea and goes back to the old interior that we all have. At the least they should offer a boat with out a interior that the costumer could out fit is own way. Even offering the old style as a option would be a good idea. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers with my decisive opinion matter of writing, but hey that’s me being me.
 
On the upside, this can only increase the cachet(and value) of older models, such as Adeline. She's not getting older, she's just getting better !
 
Hay Folks,

I always told you that the 1983 vintage angler had the best interior.

1. It looks like wood, like the old wood boats.

2. One could add, change etc. to the interior without screwing everything up. I have added a stern seat in teak, shelves in teak, a galley in teak. Looks real "bristol fashion", not like the clorox bottles they call boats today.

3. It cost a lot less to buy, and a lot of fun working on. (The old "satisfaction" feeling when you do something right.)

Thank you Mr. Starcraftom for your input. You think like a real sailor and you are right on it.

Fred
 
starcrafttom":tsqwnjej said:
...but this was a wrong move in my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

That's the part that throws me for a loop in this. Your opinion is not humble, Tom, and neither are those of the rest of this group. My goodness, outfits spend huge amounts on focus groups and customer studies to get precisely the kind of feedback that we have been providing for free for years. To make a change that so drastically alters the personality of the boat without running it through this group is foolhardy. It also kind of hurts my feelings a bit. We are a loyal bunch, but that loyalty is not blind. It is free, but it isn't cheap. And it would take about eleven seconds to change the name of this group.

I haven't made up my own mind on this change because I haven't seen it yet. But I very much respect Tom's take on it and would be dishonest if I didn't say that making me like it just got a lot harder after reading so honest a review. I also respect C-Dory's reasons as explained to me in an email or two from Jeff. I just wish the reasons had been explained before the change was made, and I wish the reasons had been offered to this group along with a solicitation of respected opinion.
 
mike thanks for the kind words, and you should here me when iam not humble. It's not that they went with a molded glass insert, which I don't like, but the over all design. It just waste any storage space that we did have and that was not enough to begin with. The cape cruiser also had a molded interior, which i don't like, but kept most of the storage space and the table design was just wonderful. I understand the cost benefits and savings as they work to produce more boats, and I think that is the goal in the long run, but if you cant sell them cutting cost really does not matter. I would hate to be a long time dealer and now have to try and sell this interior.
 
Your review of the new CD22 interior is really bringing down my Sunday. I have been lusting after one for awhile now and even have my wife pretty much talked into it. Now I feel like I need to reconsider my choice of manufacturer.

I do appreciate you taking the time to write up your review though. Thanks.

Rob
 
Rob go see one for your self. Taste is a very personnal thing and you may like it. also it really depends on usage. If I was just a day cruiser or fisheir and never stayed over night it might still work, doubt it. Do not make a choice based on my opinion, no mater how humble, go look for your self.
 
I'm anxious to see the new interior (and the Ranger 25) at the Seattle show. Perhaps someone who is a photographer could post photo's of the new molded interior here on this website? I don't see current photos on the factory site.

Also I'd recommend reading the review of the Ranger 25 in the newest issue of Passagemaker. It's a nice boat with some issues.

Ed.
 
Dee and I were at the 2005 Seattle Boat Show looking for a trailerable boat that would be capable of doing the Inside Passage from Puget Sound to Alaska. It needed to be fuel efficient, have a tough hull that could take a beating, have an enclosed cabin that was heated, a galley, head and maybe even a shower. We were just about to close a deal on a Sea Sport 24 with an inboard diesel when we decided to take “one more look and the Skagit Orca”. After looking at the Orca we poked our heads back into the 25 C-Dory Cruiser and both said “wow look at all the storage that these cabinets have”. I also pointed out that the marine plywood (Decragard) cabinets could easily be modified. After the good folks from the factory explained the hull and performance differences of the Skagit Orca and C-Dory and the economy of the C-Dory we knew this was the boat for us. We just got back from the Portland Boat show, looked at all of the boats that we considered and have no buyer’s remorse. We enjoyed looking at all the other boats but didn’t pick up a single brochure for a different boat.

That said I agree with Tom; the 25 foot Ranger Tug is a beauty. It’s going to be a hit at the SBS! :thup

I also agree with Tom about the new molded cabinets. Dee and I have seen the new 22 with the molded cabinets and had some of the same observations as Tom. (we just aren’t as shy as Tom about sharing them) :wink We also visited the factory and looked at 2 new CD 25 cruisers under construction. One had the traditional marine plywood cabinets and the other had molded cabinets. I took some photos that I will post within the next few days. Tom has a 22 cruiser that has the plywood cabinets and took some time to check out the new molded cabinets and he can best analyze the differences between the old versus new cabinetry. I briefly looked at the 25 molded cabinets and noticed smaller openings and smaller storage under the feet of the forward looking seats. The molded cabinets didn’t appeal to me. Remember it was the spacious marine plywood cabinets that first caught our eye at the 05 SBS and was one of the main reasons we liked and bought the boat.

I also agree with Mike. It would have been nice to have a customer survey or something like it before making such a change that limits (IMHO) the utility of the interior and ability to easily make changes in the interior.

For those of you contemplating buying a new C-Dory you can make up your own minds. Go and take a look. I’m sure the current CD owners will be providing feedback to the good folks from the factory and dealers about the changes at the SBS.

Continued success to C-Dory and the C-Brats,

Don
 
Tom... You use your boat. I bet your opinion and mine will be TARGET ON once I get to see the boat for myself...but, I go back to YOU USE THE BOAT...

I think that is the largest differance in me, you, most of our C-Brat gang here....and the C-Dory factory AND some of their latest directions/actions... for what ever the reasons, are slinging out newer hulls.... AND THEY DO NOT BUY OR USE THEM...

Now, Jeff and Scott really need to get their wives, get on the CD22 that was in the 06 SBS, then, go get on this newer pre-fab-blow and go version, and GO USE AND STAY ON THE BOAT, ON THE HOOK...FOR A FULL WEEKEND. MY bet is a large ....oh....this is what they are talking about would take place...

Sounds like the new "upgrade" is one that truly takes away from US, THE OWNERS, MUCH OF OUR ABILITIES TO CUSTOMIZE WITHOUT LARGE HASSLES.... to a great little boat...THAT WE CRUISE ON... not sell off concrete floors under the lights.

And, they very well could have a contact group that they are using for guidance, but my bet it is from folks who have owned, or thier careers have been centered around the other blow and go boats....that are not often trailered, and do not go in water less than 2'....like most of us ENJOY.

Now, ROB in TN: Go ahead and run if you want... but, I made an offer to you to get in the water on a CD22 that is USED A LOT, that is less than one hour from your hometown...and you have not followed up on it. You, particuarly, need to see several CD22s. Some of the later year changes I like, as do A LOT OF US WHO OWN AND USE THEM... and, it just might make the 2006 CD22 a "pricery" boat, if the new "form boat"... is as explained. Now, having met, joined Tom and his wife at gatherings, social events, partys at the factory, and via this virtual gang of friends... you can pretty much bank on his words.....as from a prespective of someone who truly loves....AND USES the boat. 22' boats are small. C-Dory's history with this hull, and the very easy owner modifications, made this a larger boat so to speak.

Cheers...and really looking forward to seeing many of my C-Brat friends at the SBS07 and hotel. And...for those of you who run from a C-Dory based on statements made on this site that might not be favorable, just take a look at some history, take a look at the numbers of ACTIVE WE USE OUR BOATS TO TRAVEL ANYWHERE THERE IS WATER....and we tell the good, the bad, and the ugly of OUR BOATS... Find another boating group that does this...go buy that boat...and let us know what you put your money into.

We just like good boats.

Byrdman..... going back to decafe...and that change might be too late..
 
I just got back from the Portland boat show. I didn't see inside the cabin but I did take a good look at the cockpit.

I liked the new larger step they molded in and I liked the molded floor.

I didn't like the molded gunnel shelf and I'm not a fan of the glass door. THe door looks nice and would be good for visibility but I'm sorta paranoid that the door would be more inviting to tweakers but that's probably unfounded.

Id upload some cockpit photo's but for some reason it crashes my internet connection.
 
I said it in the other thread...the end of an era.

I'm sure this will raise a few eyebrows, but here goes...

Personally, I believe that the factory doesn't care all that much about what we think. They could have started a thread here asking the owners what we think of a molded interior. We would have given our opinions. They probably would have gone forward with whatever they were going to do anyway, but if our opinions really mattered, they would have at least asked.

They've already made their money from us (except in our case, we bought a used one.) Factories care about making money. Period. It's streamlining costs, increasing the profit margin. Ask any one of us who have worked in a factory of some kind or another.

I'm not suggesting that the factory folks aren't good people, but they are in business to make money. That is probably the driving force behind this dumb idea of a molded interior. I haven't seen it yet, but I know I will not change my mind.

I doubt the factory will be very likely to return to the wood interior now that they've put out the time and money for the molds for the new version. We can yak about it all we want here online, but I really don't think they care. It's quite unfortunate, really.

They are losing part of the appeal...the character...the personality of the boat. It's sad.

I agree with Mike, they get all kinds of feedback, good and bad, from us...for free...seems the least they could do is listen.

Rick
 
This is a great and at the same time disturbing discussion of a tragic turn in the evolution of the C-Dory line.

I won't waste your time repeating the numerous thoughtful comments above.

But I will suggest we simply recommend to C-Dory that they provide the traditional interior as an option to the new molded fiberglass version, and let the buyers make the choice with their pocketbooks.

Personally, I'd prefer to buy a new boat with a wood-paneled Decraguard interior and a solid door, and pay more for it, if necessary.

Joe.
 
WE USE OUR BOATS TO TRAVEL ANYWHERE THERE IS WATER
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I'm actually finding I use it more out of the water than in, lately. I'll be using it as a mining shack S of Tuscon Arizona in February (thank God the Wallas is working). To date I've used the boat as a cabin in Colorado, a hunting cabin in Ga., a travel-trailer (numerous times), and now a mining HQ.

What other boat does this?

Agree with the solid door. I like that much better.
 
Hi to all from an absent voice from the site.

I don't get on often but I do still take a glance from time to time. Even after selling the Lynn Marie a year ago and starting to build a new house I just can't sit here quietly and read about a molded interior on the C-Dory, especially the 22'. As an old boat builder myself I have not only built and worked on a great number of vessels but have also been the hand that tooled several interior molds for our line up to and including a 39' motor sailor so I do have a bit of back ground into all this.

As a boat builder I stayed away from not just the industry but also the product for a lot of years until a trip into the San Juan Islands where I was drawn back onto the water. I spent a lot of time looking about at what was available that would be a well built craft as well as a boat I could work with to the point that I could feel comfortable in calling it my own, not just because I/we owned it but more becuase we had put into it what we wanted and what we liked.

To me C-Dory was almost like a blank canvas to an artist. I remember the first time I stepped aboard a C-Dory. It was about mid-day, in Warrenton, Oregon, and it was the first TyBoo. We had driven by, saw it sticking out of a shed and so turned around to hope for a chance to talk to her owner and maybe get some reasurance that we were looking in the right direction. That was our first meeting of Mike Barber who was inside putting together what would be only one of a long string of upgrades to one of these handsome little craft. After that one visit we felt we were heading in the right direction and soon had our own 22' C-Dory. She's been sold now for some time but I will tell you that I miss her as much as any boat I have ever built or owned. That fine craft gave me many an hour of enjoyment both on the water as well as off.

There is a great thread that still servives from the old site that Mike brought over and I'm sure it would not be the same or have the record number of posts it has had if there had always been a molded interior. That thread is the old Stimpy "What have you done on your C-Dory today?". The factory would do well to read it from time to time and I'm sure they do or the seats would all still face each other along with so many other novel as well as personal add on's. They also need to read between the lines.

I have rambled on long enough but I would like to close this with just a few more words that I have always enjoyed because of how they describe my relationship with boats and the water.


"It's the only thing...
Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-
Absolutely Nothing-
half so much worth doing as
Simply Messing About In Boats"

Ratty - The wind in the willows.
 
Tom gave me my first ride on a C-Dory; I certainly trust his instincts and opinions. Still, I'll reserve my opinion on the molded interior until I see it.

We used to belong to an owners' group for motorcoaches. They did solicit the owners' input... AND implement usable ideas. As brother Byrdman stated, the best ideas will come from those who USE these vessels. This particular factory went one step further: they had a coach available for the factory employees... from the "suits" down to the guys who installed the water tanks. Nothing like spending a bit of time onboard to see first hand the strengths and weaknesses. If someone at the factory hopped out of the v-berth on a chilly morning and stepped in water on the cabin floor... well, I would imagine that there would be some immediate changes. If they had to find a place to put their clothes for the week, a molded interior may hold less charm.

Heck, I haven't seen it (the molded interior) and really don't have a vested interest since we already have our boat (and love it). But good follow-up would be for someone to give the customer a call and say, "Thanks for buying our boat. What can we do to make it even better?" What would that take... maybe 10 minutes, even allowing for some chit-chat? Everyone likes to be asked for their opinion. Don't want to take the time for a phone call? A simple survey form mailed to a new owner a month after they purchase would still be a great resource (though, not as good as a simple phone call). I was able to retire at 53 because we provided outstanding customer service. I did make it a point to ask my clients if they were pleased and what could we do to make their experience better. And I listened and learned.

I gave seminars to professional associations in our industry on various subjects, my favorite being Customer Service. Too many businesses think they are giving good service without asking the opinion of those who are paying for the service. And paying the bills.

The factory knows the value of this forum; Jeff has stated that to me. They could be getting even more out of it with a small effort.

Other side of the coin: as a business owner I wouldn't want to tip my hand to my competition. If I am planning something new, I'd like to have the opportunity to market it before they get wind of that. There are people here who use these boats A LOT; people who have made interesting modifications. The factory builds a great boat - that's their job. The owners bring a different perspective. A few well-placed phone calls could go a long ways towards an even better product. Who here couldn't come up with 3 good ideas to make their boat even better? If the factory were to hear a suggestion from several owners, there's an opportunity to improve their product.

The dealer who sold us our first boat years ago called me once a week for the first three months we owned the boat. A few minutes of his time to see if we had any questions (we were new to sailing at the time) and offer encouragement. I sent that guy a lot of customers over the years (still do), and he would always call to thank me. We both understood the value of helping each other. I've bought a lot of nice boats, vehicles and coaches since that time that cost a lot more, but have never received that level of service again.

I didn't mean for this to get so lengthy. Customer Service is a big deal for me, whether its a boat, a meal in a restaurant, or buying something in a store... sadly, it's becoming a lost art. The change in the cabin of our boats may be something great... I just don't recall anyone here saying, "My boat would be better if only it had a molded interior." In all fairness, I did say something when I first saw these boats about the interior being "spartan". There are other issues that we read about on this forum that would make our boats even better for little or no additional cost. And while the cost is important, people pick these boats because of what they are... and, of course, this great forum plays a part in many of our final purchasing decisions... for the boats, the electronics, and the accessories. Did I mention what a great resource this place is? :mrgreen: :thup

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I was with Tom when we looked at the new 22 with the molded interior. Having owned 4 C Dorys over the years the one thing I love about them is the ability to make modifications only limited by your imagination. The blank canvas that Tim is talking about just is not there with this new interior. The sink/stove cooktop area is fiberglass. One can just imagine what this will look like after a few years of use.
The face forward seating has the same setup on a smaller scale as the 25 cruiser. With the forward seat stationary the area at the dinette is smaller, more cramped and the table is that much smaller. Makes the boat seem even smaller on the inside than the older models. The table was not attached to the bulkhead and was very flimsy.
As things set know if someone asked me about a CDory I would say great boat, but buy a pre 2007 model.

Fred
 
416rigby":1q7x49ws said:
Personally, I believe that the factory doesn't care all that much about what we think.
Click to expand...

Personally, I am real close to agreeing with you, whereas a month ago I would have put up a lively debate.



Anita Marie":1q7x49ws said:
...if someone asked me about a CDory I would say great boat, but buy a pre 2007 model.
Click to expand...

Uh oh. Behold the power of the internet.
 
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