The Future of This Site

[Sneaks]

I think the main thing to remember is just be nice!! Because someone doesn't have the same opinion or has other knowledge about a topic that is not commonly known doesn't mean they are the enemy.

I do know one thing. These boats and this site are way cool !! :smiled

Indeed it is cool. As I've learned before, writing to be understood is easy, writing to not be misunderstood is far and away more difficult.

One of the traps in all forums everywhere is the use of the all encompassing word "we". For me, that's a major hot button right up there with judgemental statements. I've never liked to be included in someone else's personal opinion without being asked and I hate being "pigeonholed" because whoever is doing it is, in effect, "judging" me. As Popeye coined; "I yam what I yam." In Computer vernacular, WYSIWYG. Therefore I'm pretty careful to avoid pointing fingers. OTOH, anything I've posted or listed in my profile is fair game.

I may say, for example, that SeaWolf Joe is somewhat strange because he uses 12 gauge shotgun shells as pacifiers. I don't know that his mother used them to calm him down as a baby, and I don't know if I'm the only one with that opinion so I can only relate my personal opinion. Saying "We all think Joe is strange" might be absolutely true, but short of a published poll result, the opinion is solely my own. Joe, OTOH, knows I occasionally use him as a Pinata all in fun, so it's an OK statement. If it were a new guy saying it, with little time as a Brat and no pictures in his album verifying he even owns a C-Dory, I think he would have a right to be incensed. Thankfully he also has the good sense to take his beef to Private Messages (PM). Some of us occasionally need reminding of that outlet.

Bill locked more threads this week than he has in a long time. As was pointed out here and in other threads, he has a thankless job. Actually the few he has locked out and the even fewer users he's locked out is a tribute to the users here. I'm a relatively latecomer with a 483 user number. Sawdust has #35 and I highly respect those other users with double digit user numbers. They set the tone for "Be Nice" and it's worked. Learned long ago "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" so I agree with Bill. Either one accepts Be Nice, WYSIWYG, or move to The Hull Truth (THT) or somewhere else where ad hominem rants are accepted. LIS, my opinion is worth every penny you paid....

Don

 

[SENSEI]

Thank You Bill
A long time ago you told me and many others that if we don't like a thread to stop reading it and that is what I have done !!!!
Granted, I may miss a lot of things that are happening here on this site but they say that ignorance is bliss.
I am one very blissful person...lol... as I don't even open a lot of the threads here. I am not one to write something for the sake of writing .

OH WELL
the most important thread on this site right now is the Seattle Boat show and brat gathering in January. if I didn't have to bring it to the top weekly, I would probably not post here as much as I do.with so many new faces here recently it is important that it doesnt get burried to deep and then someone who really wants to come to the gathering would possibly miss out.

 

[Da Nag]

If the administrators wish for this site to be exclusively boating topics then ok.

That has never been suggested nor endorsed, and I would have nothing to do with this place if that were the site philosophy.

We discuss tons of non-boating topics here, and we've even created a forum specifically to share personal and meaningful issues with each other on virtually any topic.

I say "virtually", because there are certain issues that everyone knows will get ugly, eventually. That's not to say they have no redeeming quality, or are not worthy of discussion. As Mike pointed out, it's tough to know where to draw the line. The line even varies depending on how a particular topic is presented or framed.

Personally, I know exaclty where the line is, as does most of the community. Unfortunately, it can't be defined succinctly in a forum post. It's quite analogous to Justice Potter Stewarts famous quote when dealing with an obscenity case, while trying to define pornography - "I know it when I see it".

In any event, perhaps the best compromise one can come up with, is what we've got here. Folks will continue to discuss what they wish. I'll rant every once in a while when things get out of hand, and garner praise and criticism. People will realize how fun it really is here, and we'll all have a big virtual hug and make up.

Sheesh...sounds like I'm married to you guys.

 

[Hunkydory]

Marty

Really feel for you on the shingle thing. My Mom and a close friend went through what you are experiencing. Forturnately with many if treated early the pain intensity and duration can be reduced significantly. Hope that's the case with you.

Liked your reference to a little rough---c-dory---family---love it and will make it through.

Jay

 

[ryder]

I have to say I have a lot of respect for the admins of this site. I wouldn't want to have to decide what stays and what goes.

People that are drawn to boats like c-dorys have a love for the outdoors and gain tremendous satisfaction from self reliance. When we are on the water help isn't always immediately available and we know that the decisions we make can be critical. In the northwest where I live, more than 10 mins in the water and you are in serious trouble.

Dealing with potentially life threatening situations is not for the wishy washy or undecided. There in lies part of the dilemma. The people who participate in this site have developed a strong self reliance and that can translate into strong opinions on issues.

There is something magical about being on the water and I must confess it's the time when i truly wish there were no borders, no politics just people living their lives and enjoying this wonderful planet.

I try to never become so small that my humanity is defined by geograhical borders.

regards

Jim D

 

[dotnmarty]

Thanks Jay and thanks to Potter Stewart too. But, I have to admit I've always had difficulty with the 'common sense' criteria. I wonder if I even have that gene. Maybe Roger can do a test....

 

[Bess-C]

Boy this stuff is starting early. It's still sunny here in eastern Washington, the leaves are beautiful and I'm enjoying life. I don't want to fight with anyone until February. By then I haven't been to the boat for 3 months, the weather is cold and crappy and I want to get one of my customers in a headlock, instead of smiling at him.

My educated brother-in-law refers to me as an iconoclast and my less educated family refers to me as a sarcastic b-----d. So I don't really have any problem rolling around in the mud. What I do miss are the humorous, friendly people like Fred, Catman, B-C, Bill and Tyboo Mike that used to lead the easy banter. I don't contribute too often, but I do check in and I don't like the fact that many of the old guard don't contribute much any more. I think that may have something to do with the direction of some of the conversations.

I haven't personally met a C-Brat that I didn't like. That's what make the gatherings so special. Even Lover Boy Tom is a great guy who just likes to spout off.

I do think that any problem that you're having with your boat is fair game, but I tire of the gossip about C-Dory as a company. I'm sure glad that my customers aren't digging around looking for dirt and problems. They fortunately leave that up to my competitors.

I like the conversations about boats, fishing, dogs, guns and family. I especially like the descriptions of trips and travels. I support whatever Bill and Mike want to do. Even though they say it belongs to all of us, we need an occasional reminder that it's their site and they contribute the time and money to keep it running. Their even handed attitude has kept things running well so far. If they want to smack someone for a bad attitude, I trust their judgment.
Lyle

 

[Da Nag]

What I do miss are the humorous, friendly people like Fred, Catman, B-C, Bill and Tyboo Mike that used to lead the easy banter.

Yeah, it's been a while...it's been so long, my humour genes are rusty. I'm almost afraid to crack a joke, due to being so out of practice. That, and Catman never chimes in any more, and he provided 90% of my material.

Maybe I should warm up with a fart joke.

 

[hardee]

I have been watching this thread and some this past week. I don’t usually get into the political field discussions because In that area, someone’s toes are going to get stepped on. Same with religious discussions. For everyone, these are personal decisions and I prefer to practice respecting everyone’s right to their own opinion.

I just want to chime in and say that I enjoy this site; I glean much from it both in the practical venue and in the familial sense. The C-Brat community is, in my opinion, worth perpetuating. This site is providing a huge service, and an important forum for all of us. I think what Bill and Mike are asking....

“I'm just asking for a little common sense, a whole lot of civility, and for members to treat each other like good friends. If people can pull that off, all the other problems will address themselves.”
_________________
Bill, C-Brat Nerd

...is not too much. I’m sure they put a lot of time, energy and effort into this site, and I just think what ever we can do to make it easier for them is worth it, at least for me it is. If I have offended someone sometime on here, I apologize. I am printing off the enclosed quote and putting it up by my computer as a reminder to try for common sense, remain civil, and treat you all like I am a guest on your C-Dory. Thanks again to Bill, Mike and the others that keep this the great site on earth.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Hunkydory]

and treat you all like I am a guest on your C-Dory.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon

Harvey

What a respectful fantastic way of expressing "just be nice".

Jay

 

[JamesTXSD]

OK, stop me if you've heard this one...

A priest, a rabbi, a republican, a democrat, a boat maker, and a lawyer walk into a bar....

Awww, nevermind. :twisted:

I'm with Sensei Roger - mostly blissfully ignorant. I'd venture that no one here knows my political affiliation or religious leanings (OK, maybe Brent and Dixie :wink. I avoid threads that head that way.

Having served as a moderator on a forum of very passionate sailors, we had several folks on a "list" whose posts had to be read and "approved" before they would appear. I had to think long and hard before rejecting a post... it certainly took a lot of the fun out of daily surfing. As winter approached, the tone always got testier.

Now that I'm retired, I find I have more time to carefully formulate my thoughts. But that would get in the way of my boating time. 8) These days, I check with the Blonde to see if I have an opinion on something.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

Just a little "fluff"... and I promise not to post any more images of my bleached white butt, but I have several of Pat and Tom that I'm holding for an appropriate time.

 

[oldgrowth]

Here's one of those relatively rare instances where I disagree with Mike. I hate the idea of a separate, "join by choice" area to address this particular issue.

:sad
________
Dave

 

[drjohn71a]

Da Nag, et al...

I really appreciate all the unsung sacrifice of you guys who keep this site up and running. I sympathize with you regarding the discomfort of antagonistic, argumentative, griping threads on the site. Sometimes, I have even been drawn into the melee for awhile.

I really think the best way to handle these things is to just not respond to them - ignore them - unless they become particularly vitriolic. Sure, we know they are there, but that is life, gripers are everywhere. The best we can do is to not feed or nourish the vitriol while actively participating in the more postitive, fun and learning threads.

Don't you guys lose any sleep over the few who happen to be in a bad mood, awakened on the wrong side of the bed, or whose wife has burnt his toast that day!!!

Keep on keepin' on!!!! PUHHLLLEEEEEEEAAASSE!

John

 

[ffheap]

Hi Folks,

I hope I have never offended anybody, but to me, this site is to important to fall because of the misuse by bringing topics that are not related to boating and C-Dorys.

The information I have acquired has helped me in running my boat better and fixing up my C-Dory to be a better boat for me. I have also tried to offer help when I could. To not have this site available to me, and to others would be a great loss.

Fred

 

[Sea Wolf]

I am copying and transfering the discussion below from a thread on Global Warming because the content more appropriately belongs here:

*************************************************
mikeporterinmd wrote:

We have some serious choices to make soon. Allowing folks who have no
credible evidence, no education on the topic, or really much of any basis
to speak on a topic to continue to spout off as if they do really needs to be
called out.

Free speech is a great thing, but we all need to a good job vetting who
we listen to.

Mike

********************************************
Sea Wolf wrote:

Agreed!

Free speech is not unlimited. It is constrained all the time by the laws regarding slander, libel, and incitement to riot, etc.

It is also true that discussion forums are created for certain purposes, this one for the purpose of discussing boating and related issues.

There are forums elsewhere for discussing politics, religion, economics, history, and whether Adam and Eve should have used birth control, etc.

I liken the situation coming to here like going fishing. I do it for pleasure. If the two buddies that I have been taking along start getting into some outrageous debates everytime we go out, I'll find other friends that can stay with the day's agenda. I don't need an ongoing diatribe from two or more people that already know each other's positions. No fun in that!

If some of our members want to debate a controversial off-boating topic, let them do it elsewhere! No point ruining this very best boating forum on the internet so that a few can vent on each other in the pretense of free speech. I personally doubt they would do it privately without the audience this forum provides.

No, I'm not wanting to live in fantasyland, just enjoy all my friends here without letting a few turn this place into the equivalent of an Letters to the Editor section of a rag newspaper.

Every year folks get bored and testy with the winter weather change and the in-house "lock-up". I do think it contributes to these issues developing, and I also believe we're also getting a lot of imput from new folks that don't yet appreciate our standards and expectations.

It's time to put an end to wanton and controversial discussions that are rude and not about boating!

Vent your boredom and anger elsewhere!

Joe.

*****************************************************************

dogon dory wrote:

Couldn't agree more, Joe. Sorry I chose the title of this thread but thought it was kind of humorous. If I had intended to generate a serious discussion about global warming, I would have pointed out the obvious beginning of the problem which the press refuses to publish. There is ample credible scientific evidence to demonstrate that global warming was initiated when Sherman burned Atlanta during the War of Northern Agression. It's been downhill ever since.

Dan

****************************************************************
Dan-

The title is not a problem. Humor makes those things that are difficult a little easier to swallow, as we all know. Your post was not offensive.

It's not that we can't or shouldn't discuss these controversial things once in a while in moderation and with respect, then get on with boating.

A lot of this depends on good judgment on how far to go before backing off and letting things go in order to save the community peace.

What I, and I think, many others, object to is the arguments just for the sake of argument, and the obvious relish that some folks take in keeping it going and digging in deeper.

Those discussions that are objected to are not achedemic discussions, either, with objective exchanges of information and facts.

Also, what qualifies as a legitimate source of information is always debatable, of course, and some of those referenced require some sorting out, IMHO.

Quite frankly, I've started a few times to get into one side of an issue before, too, but the recent events made me step back and think twice about where all of this can lead too.

If you want to see what the finished product can look like, look at the website known as The Hull Truth. It's a great resource on one hand, but a personal and political battleground with a pervasive nasty nature on the other.

I don't think we would want to totally limit discussions to boating topics only, but we've just got to get back to the "Just Be Nice' code of ethics and focus on boating, instead of brow beating.

Have a good weekend all!

Joe.

********************************************************

Sea Wolf wrote:

Addendum to above post:

We've always worked hard to make new members feel welcome and encouraged their questions and participation.

I hope none of our newer members construes what is being said on this thread or elsewhere to mean they in any way are not welcome or appreciated.

I believe we just want them to know this is a boating forum dedicated to the C-Dory and not a free-for-all community bulletin board without limits.

Thanks for your patience!

Joe.

 

[Sneaks]

For the most part I agree, Joe. Judgemental behavior can be a positive and encouraged aspect of our forums and it can be terribly negative and devisive. It's the poster's choice, always. Sure some folks occasionally engage keyboard before engaging brain, and some only pull their foot out of their mouth to insert the other one, but overall we've stumbled along pretty damn well compared to forums at other sites. Especially well, considering that our moderator(s) are pretty much invisible 99% of the time....

Don

 

[dogon dory]

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

 

[Sawdust]

Dan,

Stick around, old friend. This is my home away from home and folks like you we all need!

We've had our problems from the start - heck I even stole TyBoo Mike's 22. :lol: :lol: Wish I still had it, too. We are getting big, true, but the site is pretty self-regulating. Bill and Mike step in once in a while, but not often considering the number of posts. They own and run the best site on the net IMO. The site would be dull without a bit of humor now and then. My delete key takes care of anything that ticks me off.

Dusty

 

[JamesTXSD]

Now just a dogon minute, Dan! Who the hell are you calling "Joe Mainstreet"??? I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of these people, and there are VERY FEW of them that I would call "normal." :twisted:

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive... I was born and raised on Main Street. 8) Figuring your "porn name" (use your first pet's name and the name of the street you grew up on), I would be: Mike Main. But, I digress... where was I? Oh yeah, being miffed at being lumped into that normal category. You think posting an upside down eagle makes you controversial? You think the very mention of the phrase "global warming" is inciting??? You have obviously never been in a room with Dave and Roger at the same time! Damn, it's worse than two old women discussing who is better: Frank Sinatra or Bing Crosby?

This place is a community. Like it or not, we have a common bond that brings us together. And as with any community, occasionally someone will become (drunk and) disorderly. :wink: We can be self-policing, or we can do it like my old Main St. bad neighborhood... if someone is a big pain in the ass, we beat 'em to a pulp and leave 'em down by the railroad tracks. If they survive, they'll be more respectful in the future. If not, they had it coming.

Or, we can give that "be nice" thing another try. I think this place works pretty good (of course, I don't read any of that political crap, 'cause I'm still waiting for y'all to make me Emperor of the World and I'll straighten things out right away). 8)

Your Main Street pal,
Jim B.

 

[rogerbum]

<stuff clipped>You have obviously never been in a room with Dave and Roger at the same time! Damn, it's worse than two old women discussing who is better: Frank Sinatra or Bing Crosby?
<stuff clipped>

Definitely Frank Sinatra! And next time Dave and I come across you, we're going to get some old women to help us beat the stuffing out of you (we'll be too busy debating to do the job but I'm guess the old women will be offended enough by the comparison to take care of it for us)! :wink: