The EPA to get a Pay cut

Great books for kids - thanks for suggesting the site.
 
I got to thinking in the middle of the night--when I first started boating, the only option was pumping sewage overboard. There were rarely more than 2 boats in an anchorage--most boats had buckets--some larger ones had "plumbing"--and a pumped heat--but no holding tanks. Generally one dumped the bucket when no one was in the water, preferably at night and away from the other people in the harbor. I have photos of 2 Harbors at Catalina with only 2 boats in the harbor. Avalon was a different story--and you went ashore to use the "facilities". However what that meant was that the sewage (flushed with salt water) went thru a few hundred yard pipe and was pumped right out into the ocean outside of the small breakwater...where it was deeper and hopefully there was some current which took the "bad things" away. Of course there were many fish which ate the sewage almost right away.

However in many ways the ecology was much healthier. There were vast kelp beds, Flying fish abounded, you always caught a good ediable fish when trolling between the mainland and Catalina. Abalone were there for prying off the rocks at low tide. No problem finding a good meal of lobsters in a couple of free dives.....The Island had the Goats, Buffalo, deer and fox still.
 
I remember Catalina at a later time, the goats and buffalo were still there, and so were the abalone . The buffalo were abandoned there by a movie outfit, and have since been removed as they were a hazard to hikers. The goats were left there by early squarerigger sailors as emergency food in case of shipwreck. The goats are now hunted and the gov is attempting to eradicate the them from all the islands off California, as they are damaging the native flora.
 
My first job at sea included polishing the brass plaque on the saluting gun on the bridge every morning and dumping the garbage down the shute at the stern every night. Don't get me started....
 
One only has to look at East Germany before reunification or the Ganges River in India to see what happens without any regulation. I hope the US environment never reaches the deplorable conditions as some parts of the world. It would help if the EPA would use some common sense though when drafting regulations. I figure if both sides of an issue are mad, then the regulation must be about right.
Forrest
 
Certainly no one wants to go back to outhouses and scraping crap of the sides of their water craft. My original post had to do with the EPA imposing more regulations on grey water on Charlie's thread. Which seems to be pretty well regulated now. While this might seem to be a monumental problem to some; my view was / is there are bigger problems environmentally that EPA might focus. The second part of the discussion was about how much government can we afford. Let's take a hard look at our current deficit. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the EPA was the sole reason for us enjoying the benefits of indoor plumbing. Bringing up the Love canal or other disasters of the industrial age concerning our waterways to make the point that the EPA has never wasted a dime or gone maybe a tad overboard for me at for me is at least a pretty good stretch. I have no intention of trying to make this a political rant. Hooray for common sense in goverment.
D.D.
 
Bringing up the Love canal or other disasters of the industrial age concerning our waterways to make the point that the EPA has never wasted a dime or gone maybe a tad overboard for me at for me is at least a pretty good stretch.
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This has been an interesting thread. I suppose the point is that since the establishment of tougher regulatory requirements we have not had a Love Canal, or a Cuyahoga River fire. Regulations are simply a way for you and 300 million of your closest friends to solve common problems. It is clearly a challenging task. :crook
 
Tortuga":2j3ilm3t said:
Bringing up the Love canal or other disasters of the industrial age concerning our waterways to make the point that the EPA has never wasted a dime or gone maybe a tad overboard for me at for me is at least a pretty good stretch.
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This has been an interesting thread. I suppose the point is that since the establishment of tougher regulatory requirements we have not had a Love Canal, or a Cuyahoga River fire. Regulations are simply a way for you and 300 million of your closest friends to solve common problems. It is clearly a challenging task. :crook
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Also, I don't think anyone has ever said that the "EPA has never wasted a dime". I think that some here are perhaps just not as thrilled as you that the EPA's budget was cut as some think it serves a very valuable purpose. As for cutting the deficit, if that's what all the budget machinations were about in DC, I'd be thrilled. But it appears to me that most of what happened was an ideological battle over 12% of the budget with all kinds of riders and unnecessary BS attached - e.g. the "budget battle" of the past few months was really about scoring points and trying to kill off programs based on ideology as opposed to balancing the budget.

If we REALLY want a balanced budget, politicians need to talk about both spending AND income. Spending on the other 88% of the budget, social security, medicaid, medicare and defense in particular. Taxes on corporations and the wealthy (which are the lowest they have been in 30 or so years and I don't see the claimed "trickle down" yet). The percentage of federal tax revenues from corporations has been steadily declining and is now just a fraction of what it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's. At the same time, the gap between the wealthiest Americans and the middle class has grown and grown. So one has to ask, for whom are our congressmen and senators working? Based on where the benefits are going, it doesn't appear to be the poor or middle class.

Here's a link to an interesting NY Times interactive worksheet where each of us can try to solve the deficit problem on our own using a subset of the ideas proposed in DC. While this application certainly doesn't contain all the possible solutions, it is useful to get a sense of the relative sizes of various options. Here's a link to one of many pie charts detailing where the federal budget comes from and where it goes.
 
Will-C":3q7oonzb said:
Hooray for common sense in goverment.
D.D.
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
Albert Einstein
 
Interesitng thread. Just waitin' to see where that line in the sand is... :|
 
I'm impressed by the folks in our pub - "just be nice" is more than a slogan - it is exemplified by our fellow Brats. Thanks - great to share thoughts and ideas, and remain civil, respectful, and 'nice' to each other.
 
Ok I have a few questions, I'm at Yellowstone lake anchored out. I get up use my porta potty. Then I make coffee and brush my teeth. Question #1 do I spit the mouthful of tooth paste spit in the lake or open the porta pot and spit in there? #2 I didn't drink all the coffee should I pour that in the lake or dump that in the P.P. also? #3 I have milk with some cereal afterwards I wash out my bowls using a little dish detergent (germ a phobia) and do what with this grey water? In the lake or keep filling up the porta poddie? #4 no bodies around I have some coffee grinds dump them in the lake or trash bag? #5 Wash out the coffee pot what do I do with that water? Lake or portsa potty? Now my porta potties full no ones around, just kidding.
D.D.
 
Will C has a very good question--I note that some inland waters of BC now prohibit discharge of grey water. Where else is grey water prohibited currently? There is a lot of confusion about this. There are a number of areas where there is no treated (such as electrosan) sewage discharge. Also some areas where no bilge water is allowed to be discharged.

Some boats do have grey water holding tanks.

I think we will be seeing more areas where grey water will have to be held. It is in RV's--you cannot "water the trees" in the RV camp ground!

Small lakes, areas where the water supply is for drinking water purposes are examples where there are some "no discharge"--but many of these are also no human contact. For example the size of boat is limited, and no inflatables are allowed.

Not directly related--but peripherailly--I got a "Survey" from NOAA and Florida Sea Grant (all tax payer dollars)--it had 3 questions--do I own an RV (do I use it in Florida most?). Do I have an off Road vehicle (where it it used) and do I own a boat or craft--where is it docked? As an insentive (I guess) was a "Gift" of a brand new one dollar bill! Of course there was postage paid to send the survey, postage free to return the survey, and a two page letter to explain the three major questions! Now, I consider that a waste of money! OK--not EPA, but close--NOAA!
 
I'm not in Yellowstone yet as they were hypothectical questions well except for the the last one which was an attempt to be light hearted. I know in Key West Bight harbor no bilge discharges allowed grey water to to be kept to a minimum. No more than about 4 days hanging on a city mooring ball with out having a toliet equipped with a pump out. If I'm in a pristine area and I don't know the rules I just don't put anything overboard except for toothpaste spit. I'm going to Yellowstone and Grand Teton in August if my loan goes through for the fuel costs. I was really wondering what they have for rules governing grey water discharges. I wanted to steer the thread away from the political tone. But small leaks do sink large ships! 8)
D.D.
 
A pdf of Yellowstone Lake boating regulations is available online. It has no specific statement about grey water discharge but it does say
Waste Receptacle – All vessels should have a waste receptacle aboard. Dispose of trash in garbage cans or dumpsters at launch locations. Do not put trash into pit toilets. Draining, dumping, or discharging wastes or refuse, including human waste, into the waters from any vessel is prohibited.
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In the camping areas, discharge of grey water onto the ground is prohibited and campers are required to dump both grey and black water at locations provided within the park. This is probably due to a combination of the high concentration of campers in the camping areas and concerns about bears being attracted to the food scents that are often in grey water. However, given the policies on grey water in the campgrounds and the general statement in the above quoted pdf saying that draining or discharging "wastes" (a term not specifically defined), I would be surprised if grey water discharge from a boat was permitted. I believe dump stations are available at the boat ramps.

As for how to contain or deal with grey water on a 22 - here's a thread where this problem was discussed previously.
 
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