Tandem vs. Single Axle

colbysmith

colbysmith

Active member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
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15
C Dory Year
2009
C Dory Model
25 Cruiser
Hull Identification Number
UWH25301J809
Vessel Name
C-Traveler
I'd prefer a tandem axle any day over a single. Even with the additional maintenance costs, etc. This is mostly for safety, and the distance of towing I plan to do. However, as I look for a good used C-dory 22 to buy, I am seeing a few single axle trailers. Just wondering what the thoughts of folks are here that have single axle trailers for the C-22 Cruiser. Also, if I end up with a boat that has a single axle trailer, how hard and expensive is it to add an axle? Also, have others changed their hydraulic surge braking to electric. I converted one older hydaulic braking trailer to electric, but don't think I can do that with some of the newer disc brakes. Anyone have any experience with the "Electric over Hydraulic" systems? (I'll be mostly in fresh water, and have always ran electric for better control towing!)
 
My boat came on a single axle (Pacific) galvanized trailer. It had BIG tires, and was easy to pull, easy to park (I have to back into a spot on a sharp curve) and (although it was level) I never had to worry about leveling the trailer to tow it. I switched last fall to a tandem (Pacific, galvanized) mostly for concern about long distance towing and safety. Now the boat sits lower to the road, have to raise the OB's higher when towing, have to adjust the tow bar to be sure the trailer is towing with it's frame level, and I have 4 tires to replace instead of 2. BUT, I like the way it tows, (softer on the boat) and I like how it tows without any sway, and I do think it is safer having the tandem wheels. Would I do it again? If the opportunity came along, yes, but I think, unless all of your towing is going to be long distance at highway speeds, a single with good big tough tires is plenty adequate. JMHO.

Can't speak to the brake questions.

Hope that helps some.

Harvey
SleepyC
 
Post Script:

This may not be important to some, but for me it was. I would not have a trailer that did not have STEEL or at least metal wheel covers. (Not those plastic things.) Reason why :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: Getting in and out of the boat when it is parked at the house, barn or where ever, you step up on the back of the wheel cover, up onto the top and then swing a leg over into the cockpit. A few times of that on the plastic things and they are toast. And they are not inexpensive, so if YOUR boat comes with plastic fenders, plan on replacing them with the real ones (usually sooner than later.) :roll:

Again, my $0.02 and worth almost every penny.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
hardee...very good point about the plastic wheel covers..When my boat is at home and i am working on it i am climbing on those fenders a million times a day. My new tandem came with plastic fenders, i will have to build a little stand/bench that will fit over the fenders for climbing in and out of my boat. Tug
 
All the boats I've seen so far have the metal fenders. And I agree with the thought about those. (They've all been the EZ Loader, which is a good trailer.) I will be doing a lot of 200 mile (round trip = 400 miles), and occassional 400 miles one way or longer. Thus why I believe two axles are much better. The leveling is not a big issue, can be handled easily with different ball mounts. I know the trailer and C-22 is not all that heavy, but again for safety, I much prefer electric brakes. I have done some looking, and there does look to be some $600 electric/hydraulic units on the market. This is a bit cheaper than I remember when looking 5+ years ago. Just trying to decide, how much weight should I put on a boat buying decision, if it only has single axle, rather than tandems. If I were comparing two similar boats, how much of a price allowance/disallowance should I place on a single axle vs. tandem axle trailer? Ie, if the boat is otherwise what I want or close to what I want, should the trailer be a deal breaker and keep looking? Colby
 
All it takes is one highway speed blowout and you will always want tandem axles after that! Also, had a friend pull me out of the water after a fishing trip once and he smacked the fender against a high curb. It was easy to bang the aluminum fender back into shape after we got back to the house. I think a plastic fender would have cracked or been torn off the trailer. Also I would always go with an aluminum trailer vice galvanized. My trailer still looks brand new after many salt water dunkings.
 
Trailer conversions are fairly common going from single axle to dual axle. Depends upon the manufacturer. But if yours can't be modified, I think the trailer plays a pretty big role in a buying deal. You do need concessions on price. I can tell you that a CD22 on a single axle trailer would keep me nervous every single mile I was towing it. Unless of course, it is just a few miles from house to launch. My blow out happened with my sailboat on the way to the new buyer. Happened at 60 mph, single axle with a three quarter ton truck. The truck handled it, and so did the boat, but it was an exciting few second getting off the interstate. With a double axle, you can lose a tire, and still be able to limp to the closest safe place to change the spare. I towed my car carrier double axle 30 miles one time with one blown tire because I had stupidly left the spare at home. I only drove about 30 to 40 mph, but I was able to get to a tire store. The blown tire rim wasn't even damaged.
 
Depends a lot on how far you plan trailer your boat. Tandem trailers are safer and usually offer a better ride and less effected by cross winds. I run Carlisle radials and found them to be a big improvement over the bais ply maypops our trailer came with. Our 2009 tandem Float On trailer came with surge brakes and disc brakes on both axles. The conversion over to electric over hydraulic was done at the factory for about 1500 dollars. It works with our trucks built in digital brake controller that allows you to adjust gain up or down (the amount of braking action applied to just the trailer brakes) depending if you have the boat on the trailer or not or if you are in slippery conditions. I wanted that done right and feell the money was well spent. I don't miss the slop in the hitch that i had with the surge brake setup. We trailered 10,000 miles last year and I am happy with the change from surge to electrc over hydraulic. Pic's in the Will-C album showing the change.
D.D.
 
The passion in everyone's arguments here is intriguing. If the trailer gets your boat to the water safely it has done its job. It really doesn't matter if it has 2, 4, or 6 tires on the ground. I have had blow outs with single trailers and tandem trailers, on a variety of things - from horse trailers, to boat trailers, and with a truck tire that was loaded with an 11 foot truck camper pulling a 24 foot bayliner in my 20 something years of towing stuff. For the most part there was little drama, and we were back on our way in a few minutes.

Now I won't argue that a tandem tows better in a number of situations. This is especially true when you pull something with what I will call a compromise vehicle - one not really designed specifically with towing in mind, but one that some engineer thinks can tow something safely, or one that has been pressured by the sales department to put an overly optimistic tow rating on the vehicle. Many of the folks commenting how great tandems are have a tow vehicle as such. And I can see why they love tandems because these vehicles when towing a single are quite busy on the road with lots of driver input.

A single with a 5500 pound axle has done fine by me, but I only pull it with vehicles specifically designed for towing and work. I have pulled it with marginal vehicles before in a pinch and it was a nervous trip. Behind a 3/4 ton truck or larger, the load is like a feather and one can hardly tell there is a boat back there.

Personally, I think it really depends on what your are towing your boat with. If you are pushing the package and at the limits, a tandem is a good idea. If your tow vehicle is a F350 dually that will tow like 700,000 pounds or something...LOL.., the only way you're going to even know you have a flat is when drivers are flying by you honking that your tire is toast....Sure I'm stretching that one a bit as you'd feel it, but it wouldn't be remotely dangerous and you'd still have postive control of the rig.
 
colbysmith":2z045fs7 said:
All the boats I've seen so far have the metal fenders. And I agree with the thought about those...... I will be doing a lot of 200 mile (round trip = 400 miles), and occassional 400 miles one way or longer. Thus why I believe two axles are much better. ..... I know the trailer and C-22 is not all that heavy, ..... I much prefer electric brakes. .... Just trying to decide, how much weight should I put on a boat buying decision, if it only has single axle, rather than tandems. If I were comparing two similar boats, how much of a price allowance/disallowance should I place on a single axle vs. tandem axle trailer? Ie, if the boat is otherwise what I want or close to what I want, should the trailer be a deal breaker and keep looking? Colby
Click to expand...

Stuff clipped.

Sounds like you prefer the tandem. You will have to decide how much weight you want to put on that when looking at two similar boats. A few times a year (1-3or 4) I'd be OK with single axle, and just be sure to stay on top of the maintenance, (tire wear and inflation, bearing status and lub etc), and the towing attachment, well connected, good safety chains and towing speed, and monitoring hub temps. Make sure the system is not overloaded and you should be fine. PM and care go a long way. As discussed, if you are not pushing the limits, You should be fine.

When you stop and look at it, is the primary purchase the boat or the trailer. yes it is a package, but a great trailer carrying a boat that is not "just right" may not get the use, or you get the enjoyment from. It has been stated here (on this site) many times, a boat is a compromise, and so is the package. You will have to flip the coin to dicide what your comfort level with the package is and where the weight will need to be placed.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP6704.thumb.jpg
 
Electric over hydraulic (the only consideration for "electric" brakes on any vehicle which is going to be immersed in water). The electric brakes such as used on house trailers are just not up to full immersion--they may last a few times, but the water will get into the "sealed" units, and rust them out.

If you are driving over the Western Mountains with a 10,000 lb load--or maybe even a 7,000 lb load, then consider the Electric over hydraulic--but with relitatively level towing, as I suspect you have, the surge brakes will be fine on a C Dory 22.

Fitting a second axle--it is not quite that easy--the trailer frame has to be set up for the second axle--you will have to put on different fenders. The procedure will be different for leaf spring vs torsion axels. You will have to put brakes on both axles (state laws in many states).

If you are buying used, there are going to be some compromises. If you buy new, then you can have everything you want--dual axles, type of frame and brakes, type of engine, electronics, stoves, color of hull, cushions, camper canvas, etc---but you will pay a lot of money for the difference, and it will probably not have much affect on the enjoyment you get out of the boat.

Our recent C Dory has a single axle-and the boat just towed to the Keys, which weighs about the same as a C Dory 22, light, has a single axle. They tow fine, if properly balanced. Both have new tires on them, brakes are in good shape, I drive at 55 mph to 57 mph (Calif trailer speed is limited to 55 MPH, so I am used to that). I check the tire pressure every day, check the tire and hub temp every 2 hours with an IR thermometer.

The beauty of a C Dory 22 is that it is a simple boat. You can keep it simple, with a single engine, single axle trailer etc, or you can make it very complicated...your choice.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. FWIW, again, I will be trailering the boat a lot. Maybe once a week locally, but up to half dozen times a year 200 miles each way (400 round trip), and then once or twice a year over 300 miles one way, maybe even as far as from the midwest to the PNW. I'll be towing with an Excursion with the V10 gas, so I have plenty of tow vehicle. (But maybe some day I'll want to downsize that monster a bit...;-) I don't see myself doing any salt water, except maybe a rare occassion if I decide to take the boat out to one of the coasts. I've used electric extensively in the fresh water, and have had no problems with it. Even the hydraulic drums rust. The magnet is sealed and where it and the hub mate, continue to maintain a good contact. However, I don't know of any conversion kits exist to change surge disc into electric. If I end up with a drum trailer, I will convert the hub to electric. But if I end up with a disk brake, which is probably a better brake, then I probably have no option but to go to the electric over hydraulic. For me the only difference between all electric and electric over hydraulic is cost. But again, I've had great experience with Electric brakes in fresh water. I have used the trailer brake once or twice to clean up some sway from gusts or wind, but that is on a much heavier boat/trailer. Sounds like most of you agree that the difference of tandem over single is a big deal. Everything I know or have experienced, tells me stick with tandem. It's just been a long time since I towed something in the C22 weight class, and was just looking for the kinds of comments I've gotten so far. Thanks. Colby
 
I did want to reply specifically to Bob's comments about the electric brakes, as it's kind of a pet peeve of mine everytime I read in magazines how electric is not an option in water. I have had several boat trailers that I have ran all-electric brakes on. Now, I've never backed them into salt water, so maybe that changes the outcome a bit, but my trailers get dunked at least 40 or more times a year in fresh water. They've also been towed over salted winter roads! ;-) I do unplug the wiring harness at the tow vehicle before backing into the water, but that's not because of the brakes, but rather just the fact that all the trailer wiring is going to get dunked. The electric "magnet" is sealed. Where it contacts the hub is going to pretty much grind off the rust each time you travel. Otherwise, the drum and shoes are going to rust reqardless rather you are running hydrualic or electric. The electric has some great advantages over surge. You have a lot more control over the trailer brakes, and can engage them without the tow vehicle brakes if you need to. (Straighten the trailer out if it starts fishtailing for any reason.) You can also adjust the amount of trailer braking from your cab, depending on your driving and road conditions. While my earlier trailers got hub and brake maintenance annually, it just involved repacking the bearings, checking the shoes, and cleaning the hubs. However, the new trailer I have under my 7500 lb Searay (total weight with trailer about 9200 lbs) has oil bath hubs, and it now has 3 seasons on it with no maintenance and the electric brakes work great. I do use one of the IR thermometers to measure hub heat while traveling, and highly recommend that. The electric over hydrualic systems do sound like a nice set up, particularly if using disc brakes on the trailer. (I don't know if there are electric disc brakes, yet...) However, they are still kind of expensive, with many units running $1000, and that's just for the controllers. You still need the brakes and hydraulic lines, etc. I did see a controller on Amazon for $599, but haven't researched it that close to see how will it works. Converting hyrdualic brake drums to electric can be done for less than half that cost, on a tandem. Anyway, just my 2 cents on using electric brakes on boat trailers. At least in fresh water... Colby
 
Uh, Colby, until you've dunked those electric brakes into salt water, you haven't lived. When I dump Journey On into fresh water, it's like giving the trailer a bath. I just let it sit there for awhile to get rid of the salt inside the beams. Salt water is corrosive, fresh water just rusts. In fact, until they invented LED taillights, I used to remove the lights and wiring before launching.

I'm glad you have good luck with your electric brakes, but they're certainly not suitable for salt water. Journey On rides on a set of electric/hydraulic brakes. So far so good.

I have a daughter who just moved to Milwaukee, Wi. How's the weather back there?

Boris
 
Boris,
While the last few days have been seasonably chilly, for the most part this winter has been unseasonably ...nice.... (warm). I think we will pay for it with bugs in the summer, and the great lakes will probably continue to see water levels lower. How do you like your electric over hydraulic? What kind of controller does the system use? (Not in the tow vehicle, but at the trailer.) How responsive is the system? Ie, is the trailer controller "touchy", or does it all work pretty well with the tow vehicle controller? Colby
 
When I purchased Adeline in '89 I don't think a dual-axle was even an option.

All of my boats have sat on single-axle trailers although I've towed others' dual-axles.

Snowmobiles on singles and duals. I've owned both.

Utility trailers all single.

Thousands and thousands of miles.

Duals trail smoother.

Redundancy is good.

It's also twice as many parts that could fail.

A flat tire or spun bearing or stuck wheel-cylinder is going to sideline any trailer.

Single or dual you're on the side of the road.

One last thing, if you need to "muscle" a trailer around the driveway it better be a single axle because you're not going re-park a dual without hooking it up.
 
If the tires, hubs and axle are rated for the load, a single axle trailer works fine.

With a single axle there is no alignment wear or scrubbing from turns. Also, trailer hitch height to keep the load even on both axles is not an issue with a single axle.

Our single axle trailer has a heavier 6-7000 lb rated axle and hubs. I believe most tandem axle trailers in this range come with a pair of 3,000 or 3,500 lb axles.

We have had no issues in over 8,000 miles towing our 22 cruiser.

We usually travel with full fuel and water.

I do use Load range E, 10 ply rated tires, and in the above 8,000 miles we have had 1 high speed blowout. It was a non event. The trailer tracked straight with no control issues, we made it to a safe area and put on the spare. There was no damage to the boat or the trailer. I do carry 2 spares and a spare hub with bearings just in case. I also inspect and repack the wheel bearings each season.

A tandem axle trailer is nice, but a well maintained single axle trailer will do the job.

Our tow vehicle is a Chevy 1/2 ton pickup.
 
I'll try to upload a picture later, but during my last trip, I was glad I had a tandem axle trailer. Had a blow out on the front drivers side trailer tire. Was able to get it another 2 miles down the road to get off the interstate. And the spare came in handy too. :-) Probably would have been a lot more exciting with a single. It did take me an hour to get the spare on though as I had several stop to admire and ask about the boat. :-)
 
The question I have is how old are the tires--and do you know what caused the blowout? If it was a road hazard (bolt, pot holes etc) that is explainable. We are at the point in life were we change out RV and trailer tires at 5 years by date of manufacture stamped on every tire. Expensive. Charlie had 2 blow outs on the trailer tires of the Tom Cat 255 when towing to VA a couple of years ago--the tires were 5 years old (at least of use)--and only a few hundred miles on them.

Glad that there were no issues with the trailer and you safely made the 2 miles.

We also check the temp of the tires of all vehicles about every 2 hours (exception are the car and SUV--both of which have tire pressure moniters built in).
 
colbysmith":2q98gkjd said:
...during my last trip, I was glad I had a tandem axle trailer. Had a blow out on the front drivers side trailer tire. Was able to get it another 2 miles down the road to get off the interstate.... Probably would have been a lot more exciting with a single...
Click to expand...

I wonder if it would have. Texasair, in a post just above yours, describes having a high-speed blowout on his 22's single-axle trailer and also says it was a non-issue.

texasair":2q98gkjd said:
...we have had 1 high speed blowout. It was a non event. The trailer tracked straight with no control issues, we made it to a safe area and put on the spare. There was no damage to the boat or the trailer.
Click to expand...

I haven't experienced one (yet), but perhaps since trailers are being pulled (not steered or "driven"), flat tires don't tend to produce really dramatic handling results?

I really like my tandem trailer, but I wouldn't mind a single-axle trailer either, in principle (my boat happened to come with a tandem). I towed a similar boat to Powell and back last year - on a single - and didn't really notice much difference over my tandem. It did have nice, beefy wheels/tires (as compared to a tandem, of course). Seems like one might have a better selection of tires to choose from.
 
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