Sunbeam ~ C-Dory 22 Cruiser

[Sunbeam]

I thought I'd start a thread to document a few upgrades/projects I've got going on my 22 Cruiser, if anyone is interested (if not, please just shout me down :wink They won't be in any particular order, since boatwork seems to consist of starting five projects, moving ahead on four of them while you noodle the fifth one, then starting two more while you wait for parts for the others, then putting one on hold due to weather, then finding another four "surprise" things you should "do while you're in there," etc. ) -- but at least they'll be mostly together in one thread.

I'll start with some detail on the anchor locker (some of which is also in the anchor-locker drain thread at the moment). The basics:

1) I had read that some 22's experienced water leaking into the V-berth from the bow, the anchor locker being one possible culprit. My boat was basically unused when I got it, so I was starting with it dry, but I wanted to keep it that way. I tried to figure out the dynamics of the leaks that existed, and after reading here (gotta love this forum!), I figured out that there were two known problems.

--One was if the drain hole was drilled too low and penetrated the locker bottom.

--The other was if there was a gap in the tabbing that connects the locker bottom with the hull side/after bulkhead, and the drain hole happened to be drilled through said gap.

2) In looking at my anchor locker, one thing was immediately apparent: I didn't have problem #1 -- because the drain hole was a good inch or more off the bottom of the locker! I didn't fancy an inch of water/sludge accumulating, so I decided to drill a new drain hole.

I ordered a slightly larger clamshell, removed the original one, and then played around with placement of the larger one. I found that I could re-use one of the fastener holes, plus cover the original drain hole and other two fastener holes (which I would fill). I would have to hold the new hole just a tiny bit above the very bottom of the locker in order to avoid having the new clamshell "fall off" the lower edge of a strake, which I didn't want.

Clamshells:



Because I had the original hole to go by, I was able to drill the new hole in from the outside, so no drill gymnastics were required. I then used a file to smooth and slightly "flare" the edges of the hole on the inside of the locker, while keeping the outside just the round hole of the drill bit (basically the same size as the original hole). I did chamfer the outside of the hole slightly. I originally thought I would fill the original hole, but then I realized there was really no need to, and more drainage couldn't hurt. I filled the two clamshell-fastener holes that I wouldn't be re-using with thickened epoxy.

Next I turned to closely inspecting the two holes to see if there were any gaps where the tabbing met the hull (which could allow water to get beneath the locker bottom. I could see the line between the two sets of laminations, but nothing like a gap. Still, I loathed the idea of water leaking below, so just to be sure I prepped the holes, taped over the outside, and then coated them with neat epoxy, and subsequently with thickened epoxy (using colloidial silica). I put it on as smoothly as I can, and then to get it extra smooth I wait until it has got just slightly gummy and then smooth it with a gloved finger dipped in denatured alcohol (it doesn't take much; just a scoch keeps the glove from sticking).

The drain holes after epoxying them:



Oh, I almost forgot: There was a small nut fastened through the V-berth/anchor-locker bulkhead right near the locker bottom - obviously meant to fasten the bitter end of the anchor rode. Besides thinking it looked a bit dainty, I didn't like that it was another hole leading from the bottom of the locker into the v-berth (partway up on the cushions in this case). I also didn't know how well it was sealed and it had no backing. So I removed it (it was "sealed" with a dollop of silicone).

I don't have anything in the photo for scale, but the eye nut is probably around 3/4" in overall diameter. This is taken looking down over the bulkhead to the locker bottom. As they say, "Pardon the mess, we're remodeling"



I plan to fill/disuse the hole, but I haven't decided what to do with the bitter end of the rode yet. Thoughts are either to fasten the bitter end to a "stick" of hardwood (that can't pass through the deck hole unless it is lined up length-wise), or to put an eye nut on the backside of the bow eye (thanks to Glenda Jean for this idea).

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Bill K]

Please keep posting your mods as I am hoping to get a 22' cruiser after I sell my big boat.

I am reading everything I can find on the 22' cruiser for ideas of what to look out for and improvements.

Bill Kelleher

 

[Sunbeam]

Moving around to the transom now.

If I'm worried about water getting into the core of a boat, I can't relax and enjoy it, so I'm taking care of some of the vulnerable areas. My boat lived on a rack inside a building before I got it (although I still looked it over carefully with moisture in mind), so I figure now is the time. I want it to feel water-resistant :smile Two things that bugged me were the pair of brass drain tubes - one for the splashwell and one for the transom drain. The transom drain worried me more, since it's below the waterline, but I still wanted to improve the splashwell drain as well.

I debated various schemes. Underlying all of them was that I would remove the brass drain tube, ream out a good bit of core, fill with thickened epoxy, and then put *something* back in. It was the something that I was debating. My thoughts were as follows:

1) Another brass tube. I'm just not a fan of brass in a marine (potentially saltwater) environment.

2) A plastic tube, preferably Marelon. This was a contender, but then plastic doesn't really bond well to epoxy. Granted, the hole would be filled with thickened epoxy, but how much nicer if the tube could also be bonded.

3) A stainless through hull, with the mushroom side in the splashwell and the "nut" on the transom. This ended up being "Plan B."

4) A pre-formed fiberglass tube, bonded in place and bullnosed on the ends, then filleted, and ultimately gelcoated.

I decided to go with #4, even though I wasn't sure I could pull it off nicely. As a fallback, I found that a 3/4" through hull would fit inside the tube, so I decided to go ahead, and then if I didn't like the way the tube came out, I could always cut the ends off off flush and simply insert the through hull - still with the advantage of a bonded fiberglass tube doing the "real" work, plus with sealant (caulking) on the through hull.

First step was to tape and protect the working area, after which I removed the brass drain tube. What I did was make three lengthwise cuts with a hacksaw blade, then use a cold chisel to "dent" one of the sections in, after which I could grab it with vise grips and pull it out. It actually came out ridiculously easily, probably because it had a mere whisper of sealant on it.




Thankfully the core was completely dry, although I have no confidence it would have remained that way if the boat was an "outdoor" adventuring boat.

Next (and at this point I was still mulling over my options, so I did not enlarge the hole yet) I used a combination of dental pick, screwdriver, and Dremel tool to remove the core (transom) and filler (splashwell molding) for 1/2"+ all the way around the hole.

Looking forward through the transom. The first layer is the balsa transom core, then the fiberglass of the forward side of the transom, then the (white) filler that runs between that and the splashwell molding, and finally the fiberglass skin of the splashwell.



At this point I decided to go with option #4, the fiberglass tube. I had previously ordered a section of 1" ID tubing from Mcmaster-Carr. This tubing is 1-1/8" OD, so I had to enlarge the hole. I didn't have the exact right hole saw, and also I decided that I wanted to do it a bit more "gently" (vs. reaming through with a hole saw all at once). What I did was cut a 1" slice of the tube to use as a marker, and place it on the transom and draw a line around it. I then used a Dremel with a sanding drum to carefully sand to the line all the way around. I did this on the transom side first, because in case it didn't come out perfectly it was on the less-viewed side. But it worked really well and came out nicely. I then inserted a ~2' long section of the tubing just to check that it would hit the splashwell the way it "should." It did so I then did the same enlarging there, checking things as I went along because I wanted the hole juuuust large enough but no larger.

Next I sat back and thought about the steps in epoxying, trying to figure out everything I needed to do in advance. I double checked the core and took out a bit more - it was easier to see/reach with the holes enlarged. Then cleaned and prepped for epoxying. I taped the "good" edge of the tube, which was the splashwell side (the transom side was going to run long until later). I made a little nose cone out of a popsicle stick and taped that on to help the tubing find the second hole. Then I mixed up a batch of neat epoxy and coated the tube and then all around the inside of the hole, letting the bottom of the hole "soak" with some excess before removing it back to just a coating layer.

Then I started filling the hole with epoxy thickened with colloidial silica. I did this in stages so as to avoid it getting too hot and/or foaming as it cured, monitoring the temps with an IR thermometer (not necessary, but fun nonetheless).


After an hour or two I was able to fill with a second (and final) batch. Looking aft from the splashwell after the second fill:



At this point I called for a friend and then put a bit more epoxy in the hole and "buttered" the tube. Then he installed the tube from astern while I monitored the splashwell side. When it was in just the right spot I taped it in place (although it did not want to move at all anyway) and removed any excess epoxy. Then I left it to cure.

The white area that looks like spilled milk is just a section of a plastic water jug that I used as part of my protection scheme.



The transom side ended up looking a bit like an impalement victim:



I let things cure for a couple of days while I worked on other things, and then I trimmed the excess tubing from the transom side and rounded it over. Next I re-taped leaving a bit of a margin, then I solvent-washed, sanded a thin margin, re-washed and then ran a fillet of thickened epoxy around both ends of the tube.

Here is the splashwell side after filleting. I think I may trim back the tube a tiny bit more before I sand the fillet, but I figured easier to make it shorter than to lengthen it!



The transom side looks similar, although I see I forgot to photograph it. Next I'll sand the fillet slightly and then I'll let the epoxy cure for a longer time before gelcoating. At this point I don't think I'll need to go to option #3 (through hull), but if I wanted to, a 3/4" one would fit inside the tube (which I would trim flush). I'm not a gelcoat expert, so not sure if I will tackle that part or not. I'll probably try some areas that are simpler and more inconspicuous first!

Sunbeam :hot :smile

 

[Sunbeam]

Please keep posting your mods as I am hoping to get a 22' cruiser after I sell my big boat.

Thanks for the feeback/encouragement, Bill. As I was typing these up, I found myself wondering if people were going to be rolling their eyes and thinking, "Okay, okay, stop already!"

I am reading everything I can find on the 22' cruiser for ideas of what to look out for and improvements.

I did the same thing (still do actually ) Isn't this forum great for that?! I can spend hours poking around and reading.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[mgarr682]

I plan to fill/disuse the hole, but I haven't decided what to do with the bitter end of the rode yet. Thoughts are either to fasten the bitter end to a "stick" of hardwood (that can't pass through the deck hole unless it is lined up length-wise), or to put an eye nut on the backside of the bow eye (thanks to Glenda Jean for this idea).

Sunbeam :hot

The bow eye on mine (really just a big u-bolt) took a 1/2" x 13 thread eye nut. The local bolt and screw distributor wanted $41.00 for the only one they had. It was drop forged and looked like it would lift a large bus. I found one on the net for $8 that was shaped exactly like the one in your photo.

Neat work on both drains.

 

[hardee]

Hi Sunbeam,

Nice write-ups and photos. Thanks for sharing them. I need to do the transom/splashwell drain too, and have already purchased the Brass tube. Just have not gotten the "round to-it" of the shelf yet :wink: So, this may be a stupid question but why not use the brass? I'm pretty sure that what I got for a replacement is the same as what they put in already. In looking at it I may want it lower. I was going to use a second one on the other side (port) of the splashwell to add some faster drainage, should that need ever arise.

Good job on the anchor locker.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[Sunbeam]

I need to do the transom/splashwell drain too, and have already purchased the Brass tube. Just have not gotten the "round to-it" of the shelf yet :wink: So, this may be a stupid question but why not use the brass?

First of all, at least in my opinion, a totally good question. In fact, I debated it myself. And there are thousands of boats out there with brass tubes in the drains, so obviously they do work. I just don't like brass outdoors in a marine environment, especially a saltwater one. And too, I looked at what it would take to replace it if/when it corroded. It's not super difficult to saw through the (quite thin) brass, but I would have used plenty of tenacious sealant, so that would have made it a pain to remove/replace again.

There's another perspective I take on boat projects: Was this done at the builder because it was expedient and cost-effective vs. the better way (for me)? This is completely valid when you are a production builder. Time is money and it adds up very quickly with volume. But when I'm doing my own one-off project, I can choose to spend an extra hour or two (or ten...) if I want to. Another thing is that sometimes builders/yards are a bit slower to try new things. A little bit of "we've always done it this way" can creep in. And again, I find this completely understandable. I mean, first of all, they are busy building boats; and, secondly, they know how whatever they have been using is going to work because they have a track record for it, and they don't want to "experiment" with the next customer's boat. And too, change just for the sake of it has messed up many a boat (and other things). This is another area where I can diverge if I want to because it's just me and my boat. I can take the time to noodle over the options, and even potentially "waste" money buying some different parts to take a look at. I can change something back without having to put my billable hours somewhere. And if something doesn't work out as expected, I'm dealing with it and not a customer - not that I'm trying anything "wild and crazy." (And of course boat builders *do* change and improve things; I'm not saying they don't. I'm just explaining why sometimes they might not, or might not as soon.)

Now that all said, I do think the way the tubes were put into my boat (and I suspect others) was inadequate. No protection of the core and precious little sealant does not a good installation make. The brass is just a side issue. I knew I could bond fiberglass, that it would be plenty strong, and that it would not corrode, so I decided to try it. The only part I was/am "unsure" on is how nicely I (or someone) can gelcoat it (because I'm not a gelcoat pro), but then, like I said, a regular through hull could be put inside and that issue avoided. If I were set on using an "official" drain tube, I probably would have ordered the Forespar Marelon version to look at in person.

I was going to use a second one on the other side (port) of the splashwell to add some faster drainage, should that need ever arise.

Just curious: is yours in the usual location (the molded "dip" in the splashwell partway to starboard)? I ask because I found out "the surprise way" that when one has twins, the splashwell drain is usually put right in the center to avoid it draining (slowly) out onto the stbd engine bracket. While working on the splashwell drain tube, I suddenly noticed a circular crack in the gelcoat right under my Yamaha. It was way too perfectly shaped to be the result of any scratch or stress crack. I guessed that someone had drilled in the wrong place for an engine fastener or something - although it looked to large for that (~3/4" diameter). Anyway, I dug into it and sure enough, it quickly became obvious that someone had drilled a hole, then decided against it, and simply filled it with filler, then gelcoated over it. Guess what, that's bound to crack (which it did). It should have been repaired with some cloth reinforcement. I ground it back to a taper, then filled with thickened epoxy and then a few circles of fiberglass cloth. I have yet to fair it and re-gelcoat. But anyway, the reason I bring it up now is that I was talking to a former C-Dory dealer, and I mentioned this mysterious finding, and he said that usually on a boat with twins they put the drain tube in the center of the transom because the "dip" location made the drain come out right on/near a motor bracket and thus it didn't work well. I checked out some photos of boats with twins and sure enough.... splashwell drains in the center. So maybe our boats were switched in the hospital at birth, since mine apparently started to get a center drain, and maybe yours has the usual side drain? Or maybe mine was just meant to have a set of those cute li'l twins

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Sunbeam]

Speaking of the "extra" splashwell drain, here are a couple of photos of the one I found on my boat. This is mid-job, for reasons explained in the first post :lol:

Anyway, as I mentioned above, while working on my splashwell drain tube, I noticed a perfectly circular, ~3/4" diameter crack in the gelcoat. It was in the same position as the splashwell drain, except right in the center, under my main engine. My immediate guess was that someone had drilled an incorrect hole and then repaired it inadequately, because cracks from dropping something or from stress would not be perfect circles like this (sorry, I didn't take a photo of it). At first I thought maybe it had been for an engine fastener, but when I confirmed the diameter, I figured it was a mistaken beginning to a(nother) splashwell drain. Why it was in the center I had no idea.... then. However in a subsequent conversation with a C-Dory dealer, I found out that on boats with twins that the splashwell drain is typically put in the center because the standard location (where the "dip" is in the molding, partway to starboard) tends to come out near/on the starboard engine bracket and thus not drain well. So now I think that either my boat was originally going to have twins, or, more likely, that my boat was confused with another boat at the builder and they started to drill the splashwell drain in the "twin location" before figuring out the mis-identification.

So, the first step was to "dig in" and see what I had (sorry, no photos of the beginning). What I found was a splashwell-drain-sized hole that was filled with a rubbery grey filler and then gelcoated over (not a recipe for long-term success). I wanted to make a better repair that would not crack, so used a Dremel with one of the bits that looks a bit like a cone-shaped pencil eraser (but is hard). I wanted a nice taper so that I could lay in concentric circles of fiberglass cloth. This should keep the new repair from cracking like the original one did. In this photo I have ground the taper, but then I decided I was a bit too energetic on the tapering (I'm used to thicker, more structural glass, but the splashwell molding is thinner), and so there was not enough fiberglass left to nicely bond to in a few places, so I re-tapered it a bit wider. I don't have a photo of that, but this earlier one gives the idea. In the end the taper all looked more like the one at 1 O'clock in this photo. This gives a nice surface to add the new glass to.



Next, I cut the new fiberglass pieces. The way I make the pattern for them is to lay a piece of clear plastic over the area, then use a Sharpie marker to outline the outside edge of the taper on the plastic. I then cut the shape out of the plastic and lay it on the fiberglass cloth and then I can mark around it on the glass and cut to the inside of the line. Then I cut smaller patches to the same shape for concentric layers. Of course this was basically a circle, so not that hard, but some patches are a more odd-shaped.

I taped off and protected the area around the hole and in the splashwell where I would be working, and then laid everything out (fiberglassing supplies) and suited up. Next I wiped down with denatured alcohol, then I "painted" the area to be patched with neat epoxy, and also wet out the patches with it. I then thickened the remaining neat epoxy with collodial silica to a non-sagging paste consistency and used that to fill the center of the hole up to nearly level, after which I laid in the largest circle of fiberglass, followed by middle-sized and then smallest pieces. I used 10 oz. cloth. Then I placed a piece of peel-ply (release fabric) over the whole. This isn't necessary, but makes it easy to squeegee over the cloth without disturbing it, plus leaves a nicely textured surface (and peels off any blush with its removal, although I still wash before proceeding further). Here's the patch after the peel-ply has been applied:



And after curing and removal of the peel-ply. Next will be fairing and then (after a longer cure time) re-gelcoating. You can see the "real" splashwell drain to the left in the photo.



Sunbeam :hot

 

[Sunbeam]

I thought it would be nice to post a small job that is actually finished (well, as finished as anything ever gets on a boat in the marine environment!). Since I have the water tank out (yes, another little project), and am replacing the hoses, I figured it was a good time to improve the water-fill installation. Since none of the other core was protected in the way of hardware installations, I figured the water fill wasn't either. First step was to remove the fill. Here I got good news, including a surprise. The main thing is that the core was nice and dry. The surprise was that - on a boat where I've found most things "bedded" in silicone (don't get me started :amgry) - this is one of two fittings I've found bedded in polysulfide (the other was one of the four through hulls :?). That meant that what would have been an hours' long battle (with silicone) was instead a one-minute job with a chisel and a swipe of mineral spirits. Ahhhhhh. There was not a lot of bedding compound, so I don't know how well this would have fared if the boat had spent much time outside.



I've noticed a couple of times in other threads people have asked what dry core is like compared to wet. This is a good example of dry balsa core. You can see in the photo how it is light-colored. By feel it's firm and sort of "crisp" when you pull on it. If you pinch a piece of it between bare fingers there is no residual dampness on your skin. Damp core would be darker in color and leave your fingers damp. Rotten core could get to the grey/black and even soupy point. A second factor is de-bonding, which is where core (in whatever condition, but certainly when it is soupy) releases its bond/connection with either the upper or lower fiberglass skin(s). This bond is what gives a cored structure its strength, so if it has de-bonded you basically have three floppy hulls instead of one strong one (obviously a small de-bonded area doesn't immediately cause your whole boat to flop). You can see a small rust line where the edge of the fill was; this was from fastener(s) rusting. I have tried to go back in with 316 stainless fasteners wherever I could, vs. the more common 304, because 316 is more corrosion-resistant and is still plenty strong (I did have trouble finding certain specific ones in 316, but most were easily available).

Next I reamed out the core by 1/2"+ all the way around, with extra "ears" of removed core to cover the areas where the fasteners go through.



I used a combination of my trusty dental pick and a little bit of Dremeling. I taped off the inside of the hole while I was working to keep detritus out of the cabin. I sanded the upper and lower skins where the core was removed for a better mechanical bond with the new epoxy. Then I vacuumed and solvent washed (denatured alcohol). Next (no photo of this) I taped over the whole works with blue tape, and then used an X-acto knife to cut out the center hole and the three screw holes. This is not totally necessary when working on an item where a flange will cover any slight issues, but it makes for a tidy job.

I got all my epoxying stuff together, further protected the areas of the boat where I would be working, solvent washed one last time, and then mixed up a batch of neat epoxy and coated all of the inside surfaces. Then I thickened the remaining epoxy with colloidial silica to just a non-sagging consistency and packed it into the hole. Because the fastener holes were one with the center hole, I didn't have any of the usual trapped-air issues associated with trying to fill blind holes, and simply let the epoxy ooze up through the fastener holes and out onto the tape (sort of like filling the lower unit on an outboard). After the epoxy cured to the "green stage" - firm but still somewhat rubbery - I sliced it off level with the deck with a sharp chisel (the crazing and etc. you see around the holes here was mostly eliminated when I chamfered the holes).



When I was ready to reinstall the fill (which I had recently polished) I cleaned up the gelcoat around the area, and then re-drilled the holes for the fasteners, chamfering them to accept a bit more sealant, and to help keep the gelcoat from crazing (this was not done when the boat was built, and caused gelcoat crazing on nearly all fastener holes; luckily it's all been under flanges, so I have just chased them out a bit and chamfered the new holes). I like to install screws before the epoxy has fully cured (it is cured to the touch but not *really* cured) because then the new screws go in more nicely (without "cracking" the epoxy). Next I cleaned the holes, the fill base, and the new fasteners with denatured alcohol, and then laid a strip of butyl tape on the fill flange, and little "volcanoes" of butyl just under the screw heads. Then I reinstalled the fill and trimmed away the bulk of the butyl (mineral spirits will also clean it up).



Sunbeam :hot

PS: Can you tell it's been cold/windy/nasty weather here? And I'm waiting for parts. Good time for posting

 

[Sunbeam]

Along the same lines, I removed the bimini-leg brackets and gave the holes the epoxy treatment before reinstalling them. I only have a couple of photos at the moment, but I'm posting them because they show a couple of things I mentioned in the water fill post but didn't have photos of. Here I have the holes reamed out and ready for filling and I've done the blue-tape-and-X-acto knife prep.

And here the holes have been filled, the excess epoxy chiseled off flat in the green stage (rubbery), and later the fastener holes redrilled and chamfered, ready to accept bedding/brackets.

A couple of notes on the above: You can still see a couple of crazing lines that were not eclipsed by the new fill/chamfers. I chased these out slightly with the edge of a chisel. Not that they will have any particular strain on them now that the new holes are chamfered, but I just prefer to do it. Conveniently, they are all still completely covered by the bimini brackets. Also, for some reason in the photo these chamfered holes look really deep, but in real life they are just an average chamfer - they don't really go to China.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Sunbeam]

Today was cold, windy, and generally unappealing outside, plus I seem to be waiting for at least one part for each job - or it needs warmer temps. Yet I still wanted to get something done. So I decided to figure out how much water my fresh-water tank holds, and to get it ready to mark it for various levels. To begin with I set it up on a level picnic table, and then figured out just how much I needed to prop up the outboard side in order to get it on basically the same angle as when it's in the boat. I rigged up a funnel for filling, and then as I filled it I marked it at one-gallon intervals with blue tape (which I think are actually linear after the first one, given the tank's shape; but I still wanted to fill it up anyway). Later I'll go back and mark some of them with black Sharpie. Here's a photo of the "mad scientist" set-up:



I should mention that I'm not going back in with the open sight tube for checking the water level. I don't really like the idea of yet one more open/clear tube that's going to suck air into the tank every time I use it. I noted that although the tank and the fill and vent hoses were fine (although I'm going to replace all the hoses anyway), the open sight tube had fungus inside it up near the top. Plus I just don't really care for it on the bulkhead there.

At first I thought I would route a vertical opening in the inboard side of the after dinette seat base, so that I could just look in there and see the water level. But... I don't know... it just didn't appeal to me that much. And thinking back, I realized that I never had any way to see the water level on bigger boats. It seemed like after a while I just sort of "knew" how much water there was. I guess when it's important a person must just sort of mentally keep track without realizing it. And on the 22, I'll have other sources of water (bottles, etc.). So at that point I decided for now I was just going to keep it simple and have no "gauge" (I could always route a slot later, and/or reinstate the sight tube; the outlet will simply be plugged).

But then yesterday during the course of putting footman loops into the water tank compartment (thought I'd strap down the tank...), I realized that with a hand mirror I could see the after side of the tank pretty easily through the "mouse hole" where the supply hose comes out and runs toward the galley. So I decided I'd mark the after side of the tank with a Sharpie, just in case it proves useful at some point. I also wanted to double check the integrity of the tank, and see if it was really 20 gallons. It seems to be around 18 gallons, and I found that the supply fitting is leaking slightly (it wasn't before but it must have been on the verge and then my handling of the tank put it over the edge). So I'll have to look into welding it (luckily I did see there is a new tank available that's very close to the same size just in case!).

I'm actually not used to having the supply fitting right at the bottom of the tank like that, where a leak could cost you your entire water supply (plus make a big mess), but rather a top fitting with a dip tube more like our gas tanks. I'd probably change over to that if I had to buy a new tank, but if I can repair this one, well, obviously they've been working in hundreds of C-Dorys, and I'm not going to be days offshore either.

Sunbeam :hot

PS: I took a photo of the transom side of the splashwell drain tube, just for the record. This is after filleting but before sanding or gelcoating.

 

[Rob & Karen]

Sunbeam,

I have a few questions / comments about the drain hole work you completed.

1. Could you post a picture, or link, or part# for the Forespar Marelon drain tube you considered using?

2. Could you post a picture, or link, or part# for the 3/4" through hull that was plan 3 and would fit inside the fiberglass tube you used?

3. When you finish gel coating the ends of the new fiberglass drain holes, I would be very interested in seeing pictures and reading about that process.

4. How much does the fiberglass drain tube protrude above the surrounging surface?

5. When you repaired the center hole that seems to have been drilled in error, the order that you inserted the fiberglass circles (largest first ending with smallest) is opposite of what I would have expected. I understood it to be a cone shaped hole with a decreasing diameter the deeper in you go. I would have thought you would put the smaller disks in first and finish with the largest one to follow the taper. Am I missing something?

Thanks for posting all of this detail. I have not done much or this sort of work so seeing pictures of the process is great.

Rob

 

[Sunbeam]

Hi Rob,

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread - I always worry that I'll drone on and on and just put people completely off

On to your questions:

1. Could you post a picture, or link, or part# for the Forespar Marelon drain tube you considered using?

It's this one.
http://www.forespar.com/products/boat-m ... rain.shtml



I don't know if there is any variation in overall transom+splashwell thickness, but note that it says it works for transoms up to 2-1/2" thick; mine measured out at around 2-3/8".

I would have hoped that the Marelon would have held up better than "other" plastic. I had read that the "other" plastic ones deteriorate fairly quickly in UV/sun (a lot of Boston Whalers apparently have drain tubes as I found much discussion of them there when I was figuring out the best way to remove mine).

2. Could you post a picture, or link, or part# for the 3/4" through hull that was plan 3 and would fit inside the fiberglass tube you used?

There are probably any number of them that would work, but basically it would be a 3/4" through hull of the type that is threaded all the way through (i.e. not with hose barbs on the end). I would (have) put the finished (mushroom) side on the inside of the splashwell for a finished appearance, trimmed the spigot to just fill the nut and then put the nut on the outside (since there are already a lot of nuts, etc. there, what with the engines and all, and you really have to look to see that area anyway). Here is one example from Groco, although it happens to be bronze and not chromed or stainless. It is, however, long enough, which some are not.


Although they say this size takes a 1" hole (and it does), I still took a new 3/4" Groco through hull I had on hand just to make sure it fit inside the actual fiberglass tubeI had. It did, snugly.

I thought this drain fitting I found would have been really neat, because the head is so thin and flat, but alas, it's in the UK and so not as easily/quickly available here:
http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/cockpit-drain-countersunk-brass-p-13742.html

3. When you finish gel coating the ends of the new fiberglass drain holes, I would be very interested in seeing pictures and reading about that process.

I'll update when that happens. It will probably be a little while because, first of all, it's good to let epoxy cure really well before putting gelcoat over it; and second, I'm not a pro gelcoater, so if I do it myself it would not be the first thing on my list. What I'd really like to do is find a pro who would do that job and teach me how to do any subsequent jobs myself.

4. How much does the fiberglass drain tube protrude above the surrounging surface?

Without going out in the dark and cold to measure, I'd say around 1/4" at the moment. It's pretty easy to trim them though, so what I figured I'd do is fillet the ends (done), then live with them a bit, and then perhaps shorten them a scoch once I'm sure. And you know, it's possible I could trim them flush, but not being a gelcoat expert, I am really not sure if I would end up with a hairline crack at the joint, so at least at the moment, I'm more comfortable with a fillet there (I probably would never trim the transom side flush as it's kind of nice to have a bit of an overhang where the water drips out). If a gelcoat expert felt that the flush trim would work, then I could trim it off flush later.

I did think about putting the fiberglass tube in lower, but that would have eliminated the later option of adding a through hull (no room for the flange) and just didn't seem worth it to me, ultimately.

5. When you repaired the center hole that seems to have been drilled in error, the order that you inserted the fiberglass circles (largest first ending with smallest) is opposite of what I would have expected. I understood it to be a cone shaped hole with a decreasing diameter the deeper in you go. I would have thought you would put the smaller disks in first and finish with the largest one to follow the taper. Am I missing something?

No, it is shaped just like you thought, and it seems logical to build up from smallest layer to largest, because then you "fill" the hole in a cone shape. However, the reason for the largest layer first is that then you get the full bond with the largest piece, not a bunch of "mini bonds" with small edge sections of each layer. And too, if you ended up sanding to fair (not uncommon), and if you had the largest layer on top, then you could easily (need to) sand through the largest layer, thus breaking it up. With the largest layer on the bottom and the smallest on top, if you have to remove any glass when fairing it will just be the "little ends" of the non-continuous pieces. (Not that it would probably matter that much either way in this example, but this is why I do it this way in general.)

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Rob & Karen]

Sunbeam,

A follow up question. It sounds like you are saying that a 3/4" Groco bronze thru hull fitting is snug in your 1" ID, 1 1/8" OD fiberglass tube. Is something off by 1/4" or am I missing something again. If you used one of these for the lower drain plug (not the splash well), do they make make expandable rubber plugs that would fit inside the 3/4" Groco thru hull? Or would you use some other means of plugging it?

Thanks again.

Rob

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam,

A follow up question. It sounds like you are saying that a 3/4" Groco bronze thru hull fitting is snug in your 1" ID, 1 1/8" OD fiberglass tube. Is something off by 1/4" or am I missing something again.

Hi Rob,

A 3/4" through hull is actually 1" OD, so that's where the "extra" 1/4" comes in.

If you used one of these for the lower drain plug (not the splash well), do they make make expandable rubber plugs that would fit inside the 3/4" Groco thru hull? Or would you use some other means of plugging it?

Funny you should ask, as I'm much of the way through the lower drain project too :lol: (I'll add it to this thread later). Again, I considered a number of options. Ultimately I decided to completely close out the core, so I'm not going back in with any sort of tube, but rather just a regular drain plug ("garboard drain") type fitting. However, if I had not done that, and had gone back in with some sort of tube, then bonding in another section of the same fiberglass tube, and using a common 1" plug of the expanding type - just like is in the current brass tubes - was a prime option. But I suppose one could possibly also put a drain plug fitting inside the tube and then the threaded plug that comes with that style. You'd probably want to see how the OD of the tube cleared the drain fasteners. Probably the "Thermos" plug would work out more easily.

Buck Algonquin do actually make a "through-hull" style drain plug, but it's not long enough to go in with the tube style drain. I have ordered one of these to check it out for my "revised" lower drain (I'll likely either use that or a regular garboard drain type fitting).

Sunbeam :hot

PS: The fiberglass tube stock also comes in larger sizes, so one needn't necessarily be limited to the 1" ID. I originally ordered that size because I was thinking I might use it for the lower drain, and wanted an existing rubber drain plug ("Thermos style") to be able to fit it. I knew I could get 1" plugs (although my original brass "Thermos" plug was more like 3/4"-7/8").

 

[jkidd]

Hi Sunbeam

I need to tackle some of these myself so keep the information coming.

 

[Sunbeam]

Hi Sunbeam

I need to tackle some of these myself so keep the information coming.

Thanks for the encouragement - I've certainly spent plenty of (enjoyable) time looking through your photo album and picking up tips :thup

 

[Sunbeam]

Since the topic of the (lower) transom drain has come up, and since I've been working on it recently, I figured why not post what I have. As a side note, realizing that unless I wait to post any details until I have "fully completed" tasks, then partial ones will end up being broken up into discontiguous posts, I considered waiting. But I figured then I'd forget details along the way, and plus if I ended up with a "backlog" of stuff to post it might just get too overwhelming and chore-like and I wouldn't post at all. So I'm going to just go ahead with things that may only be partially completed (but it will all be in this thread). I hope that's suitable.

So, the lower drain, which I call the "transom drain" in my mind (as opposed to the splashwell drain). Having already taken care of the fuel tank cleats, this was the number one worry I had about the core. A thin brass tube, below the waterline and probably not well-bedded, running through unprotected core... what could possibly go wrong? :shock: Thing is, for awhile I wasn't sure how I wanted to tackle it. Did I want to re-create the tube style drain? Or did I want to completely close out the core and go back in with a "garboard drain" style setup. I think that somewhere in my brain I already knew I wanted to do the latter, but there is always that resistance to "cutting up" a perfectly good boat, isn't there?

I got as far as removing the tube and finding that there was just a small amount of damp core directly beneath it (Whew! But then my boat's never been kept in the water, and was mostly stored indoors, so I wasn't surprised as much as I was relieved.), and then I decided to move up to the splashwell drain because that would give me a chance to try out my fiberglass tube method, which was one of the options for the transom drain.

So here we go:

First step was to remove the old tube. I masked off around it and then used a hacksaw blade to make several lengthwise cuts in the tube. It's thin and not hard to cut.



As I was getting through the 6 o'clock cut, water suddenly began to lubricate my saw blade. Not good! You can see it in this photo.



Next I used a hammer and cold chisel and gently tapped down one of the "leaves."



Which I then grabbed with a vise grips and pulled the tube out. Again, scanty use of sealant, as you can see.



Tube removed, outside view:



Inside view (see P.S. below on the two smaller holes)



Fingers crossed, I started extracting core. Happily, I only found damp core in the small area beneath the tube, and maybe 1-2" across. I removed that and adjacent dry core in (possible) preparation for epoxy treatment and bonding in a new tube.

Slightly damp core, removed.



Then I paused the job, for a few reasons.

1) Somehow I had boneheadedly ordered 1" square tubing instead of the round tubing. Round was on the way but would be a few days in coming due to the holidays/shipping.

2) I still wasn't sure I wanted to go back in with a tube at all, so I wanted more time and information (decided to proceed with the splashwell drain first so that I could work with the tube and see how it went - in the splashwell I knew I was not going to eliminate the tube setup).

3) There was a lot of rain in the forecast before the round tube would arrive, and I wanted a dry spell for the job.

So, how to seal the area while I waited? What I did was make up a plug consisting of a 3/8" bolt and two large fender washers (plus some smaller washers to get past the shoulder of the bolt and into the threaded area). I covered the washers and under the bolt head liberally with butyl tape, and then I installed it, favoring the lower side of the holes.

Plug, outside:

And inside:


A few days ago, a dry two-day weather window appeared, and, having decided how to tackle the job (minus those small details that you have to refine once you're "in there"), I removed the plug in preparation. There had been quite a bit of rain in the meantime, and although I bailed and bilge-pumped, there were still times that water sat in the sump (I have the boat outside at the moment at a friend's shop, and although I have a tarp that covers it all, the rain came with very strong wind so I elected not to use the tarp). I slightly held my breath as I removed the plug.... dry as a bone! I had all the core removed from beneath the drain hole (so it was just bare fiberglass), so I knew if any moisture had gotten in, that area would be damp or wet or full of water, but it was dry. Ahhhh.

To be continued...
Sunbeam :hot

P.S. By the way, the two smaller holes in the "inside, tube removed" photo are where a bilge pump was fastened into the sump with screws. Although this "sump" area is depressed, it is still cored, but the core is just thinner (and said core runs into the transom core with no particular division). Happily, the core was completely dry, but I still removed some in preparation for filling with thickened epoxy. Actually, this is where I got the butyl/plug idea, because I similarly had to postpone filling these holes at one point in time, and so I used butyl and two screws to plug them. Later (and after there had been water in the sump), the core was still completely dry when I removed the "plugs."

 

[Sunbeam]

I want to make a comment on the splashwell fiberglass drain tube I installed, just to clarify something that I might not have said as well as I could have.

While I'm quite happy with the basic function and installation of the tube, and would do it that way again, I'm not sure about the gelcoating of it. I'm not a gelcoat pro by any stretch of the imagination, and while I filleted the tube to make for a smooth transition, I'm still not sure if it will make for a "good" gelcoat base. What I mean is, I think it's possible that the gelcoat would still end up being vulnerable to chips on the end of the tube. It's also possible the tube could be cut flush and then gelcoated, but again I'm not as sure how gelcoat functions (as compared to epoxy) in these types of areas, so I'll want to consult with someone more knowledgeable.

These "unsure bits" are why I set it up so that I could easily trim the tube, forget the gelcoating, and place a through hull inside the tube. The mushroom flange (splashwell) and nut (transom) would cover everything that's not still original gelcoat. Essentially, the through hull would be "decorative," although I would still bed it in sealant. I now wish I had taken a photo when I had a through hull just set into the hole (pre-tube-installation, just to see how it looked). I thought it looked nice.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[BrentB]

Will yo be adding ball or falpper type scuppers?

I find Sharpie brand markers ink with fades quickly b/c I use them everyday at work. Have you considered using a label maker or painting the increments?